SSP

I've been training pretty hard for some upcoming time trials, and have recently noticed something odd. During the first 20 minutes or so of warm-ups, my heart rate will sometimes be in the 190-225 range, even though I don't feel like I'm working very hard.

FWIW, I'm 56 years old, 5' 11", 164 lbs, with a resting heart rate around 52. I had previously thought that my max heart rate was around 172-175 (based on what it hits when I'm trying to stay in contact with the local race team on a climb, and what I've seen when I go all out after warming up).

When my heart rate is in the 190-225 range, I don't feel any particular symptoms. No pain, no light-headedness, no loss of power.

My primary training has been 5 minute intervals, with 2-3 minutes rest (6-9 intervals per session), 2-3 times per week (typically, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday).

Anyone else see really high numbers like this?

Could it be overtraining? I don't think so because I saw high HR numbers on my easy ride in to work this morning, but my HR is now 54 sitting at my desk.

Could it be anxiety? I crashed and broke my collarbone about a year ago on the TT bike, and I'm still trying to get comfortable on it.

Could it be atrial fib?

Could it be a good thing?

Or, is it nothing at all?


Any insights appreciated...

Note: I had a treadmill cardiac stress test back in 1997. Maxed it out and the doc said there were no problems noted.

127.0.0.1

dude go see a doctor and stop all exercise immediately


something is wrong in a BAD way...unless your electronics are bad. make sure your HRM contacts
are dribbled with saliva and away from powerlines before trusting the data.


but STOP and see a cardiologist ASAP

ModoVincere

Sometimes, there are parts of the heart that may beat slightly out of sync with the rest of the surrounding area. These creates electrical artifacts that can interfere with your HRM and give whacked out readings like what you are seeing. Usually its no big deal. On the other hand, readings like that could also indicate something like atrial fibrilation....which is no laughing matter.

You should go see a dr. just to be on the safe side. The cost of an office visit is nothing compared to the other costs if you should see a dr. and don't.

SSP

Not going to happen. If I were experiencing any symptoms, besides the high HR, I would.

I always wet the contacts, and I've ruled out powerline interference. The monitor is a Garmin Forerunner 305, which seems reasonably reliable.

The high heart rates tend to settle down into my normal ranges after 20-30 minutes of warm-ups, so I'm assuming the phenomenon is legit. If it were a failure of the monitor, I would assume I would be seeing "dropouts" or abnormally low values, rather than consistently high values during the warmup period.

I've scheduled an appointment with my doctor for next week. If he thinks it's warranted, I'll have a cardiac stress test done next Friday (the day before I race a 10 mile TT).

RDW3261

I have been getting false readings on my Forerunner 305 lately on some of my rides. I get readings of around 200 even though I know it should not be above 130. I am thinking my battery may be going bad. I have not change it in two years. My top HR is 181.

Carbonfiberboy 

Strongest chance is that you aren't gooing up your contacts very well. Try lots of saliva, not plain water. Also possibly a low battery in your xmitter. I say this because it happens while you're warming up. Odd high HR's like this are almost always either a flapping poly jersey or not enough sweat or goo on the electrodes.

I've only seen Afib (in other riders) after a very strenuous climb or, more likely, a series of climbs, or 100 miles into a brevet, something like that. Never starting out or when riding easy. What I've seen in those cases is a HR that seems anomalously high, like 20-30 beats higher than it should be at rest or when riding moderately. In those cases, the best thing is 911 to capture the momentary anomaly for the cardiologist, thus avoiding having to wear a Halter device.

You'll definitely feel a loss of power with Afib. OTOH, it's not overtraining (very low HR), anxiety (mebbe 5 bpm up), or a good thing.

You've got lots of experience, so you know how you feel. I've never used a Garmin, but does it have the little blinking dot like a Polar that blinks with each beat? If so, when you're seeing the high HR, does the blinking dot blink regularly with the speed being indicated by the monitor? I bet not. I bet it's irregular or not blinking for short periods. That is if you have one . . .

Are you still taking all that niacin? I tried it but gave it up.

SSP

Hmmmm....thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely look into the monitor issues you mention. I always use saliva on the contacts, but will try and make sure I really goo 'em up before starting out.

It may be the transmitter battery, because I've been using the HRM regularly for the last 3 or 4 months, but have not changed the transmitter battery.


As for the niacin - yes, 1000 mg each morning, and 1000 each evening. My uncle (a retired physician) uses niacin too. Not sure his current dosage, but he used to take 9000 mg/day for cholesterol control!! As long as I take it every day, I seem to have a good tolerance for it, with very little flushing. If I skip days, the flushing comes back.

cyclezen

If electronics doesn't prove to be the 'cause'. then a possibility is A-Fib (Atrial Fibrillation). I have it. Have 'had' since some stress tests done during College athletics yrs back in the late 60's. Before rat poison (blood thinners), all that was done was monitoring. I stopped most of that by that mid-80's.
A-Fib is a screwup in the nerve signals regulating the heart muscles. Causing the atrium to go into a high 'arrhythmic' pattern. Some people have suffered longterm A-Fib which needs immediate attention (see Denver's posts in the 50+ forum). I suffer it only when I reach what is likely my theoretical heart rate Max region, now around 178-180.
Now having a decent HRM I can pinpoint when I enter that zone easily. Any hard efforts (at current age and state) which take my HR to 178-180 (at current age-60) will then immediately cause my monitored HR to go to 225-230. When in My 20's, I could jump as high as 245-250 when I hit exertion heartrates of around about 205-208. To reverse this, I have to slow down the effort... then the HR drops withi a few seconds back to the 'normal' high range, say 170's...
read up on A-Fib if you suspect it might be what's causing the heart rate spiking. there should be a few good threads here on BF with a search for A-Fib or Atrial Fibrillation.
All investigations on my part shows that aging in the general population does increase the percentage of people experiencing its onset, as do many other 'conditions'.
Current treatment commonly is rat poison (blood thinners) - I choose not to go that way. I do all hard rides with a HRM and when I go A-Fib, I pull off and wave goodbye to the group, and back off to an easier effort until the HR is back around 160ish...
another 'treatment' is called 'Ablation' - cauterization of some nerves - yuck!
another local rider I know also has A-Fib, and she had the Ablation treatment done, with no success. It doesn't for for even 50% of those attempted.
It may be the thing that eventually puts me under, but then you gotta go sometime and someway...
At the moment, living with it sure beats slowly poisoning yourself.

mp123

My HRM gives false high readings of 225 when the battery starts to wear out. My guess is it's that or maybe the strap not making good contact until you get all sweaty. In any case you could always stop and check your pulse at your wrist to be sure. Afib is a possibility but I'd double check the HRM before getting too freaked out.

ericm979

Every HRM I have had has given erroneous way high readings at the beginning of some rides. Especially when I start by riding down the hill from my house. Steep, bumpy, fast. I can wet the contacts all I want and it'll still do it. The speed dries out the contacts and causes the jersey/jacket to flap, which moves the xmitter around.

Make sure the strap is tight (they loosen over time and need to be cinnched up periodically) and try some conducting gel like Ba-bump. That can reduce the problem but some HRMs are worse for this than others.

Zan

225bpm? the general formula for max HR (without doing a test) is 220 - your age = max HR. I'd be surprised if you can get that high.

You know, what you COULD do is measure the old fashion way: measure your pulse for 15 seconds and multiply by four. You'll prolly find that your HRM is off. If not, I wouldn't exercise, and would see a doctor. No need to have a heart attack...

Carbonfiberboy 

Have you tried cutting out coffee and black tea? That helps some people.

cyclezen

not wanting to hijack SSP's thread...
in brief - my issue is pretty well defined. high exertion induced. which is not true for all situations of A-Fib.
Cafeine doesn't seem to affect it one way or other - meaning it doesn't cause 'quicker' or earlier onset.
Even so, if I'm gonna ride hard or do something else that potentially could bring me towards max HR, I avoid stimulants for some time before. Otherwise I do keep the coffee and tea to a small amount and use de-caf when I can.
SSP. the electronics issue is prolly a high percentage thing. If it happens at the beginning of rides, then there may be conductivity issues with the transmitter and how it reads you.
Try to get your hands on a different belt and see if the readings and spiking change.
I can go from one HRM to another and see the same spike, regardless of equipment.
In fact, its guaranteed, if I go over 178 I WILL jump to 220+, even 230...
And there are riding stretches I have noted, that always cause my HRM to either drop the signal or go wacky with readings all over the range.
Honesty, within a few seconds of A-Fib onset I experience extreme "shortness of breath", which really means I'm just not gettin proper blood flow. Interestingly, I never get 'lightheaded'.
I am able to 'know', even without looking at the HRM, that I'm in an episode, cause the loss of power is almost immediate - like someone turned the switch OFF. In fact the power switch goes OFF before I get short of breath - its like instant Bonk, but really isn't.
If you;re not experiencing some change in your effort or 'feeling' then its likely not A-Fib. Prolly electronics...

chrisvu05

SSP, I had this same thing happen with my garmin HR monitor last year.....open up the back where the battery is installed. I'd be willing to bet that the sweat has corroded and the battery has leaked. That is what happened to mine. It would run high for the beginning of a work out and then level out and then it finally just quit working.

It probably isn't you....you know when your HR is over 190...you'll be hurting.

SSP

OK - here's what I've done and what I've learned so far:

1) Replaced battery in transmitter. Result - no change (reading still too high early in ride).

2) Checked pulse at carotid and wrist 3 or 4 times when HRM was reporting 185+. Result - pulse check was generally around 120-130 (in line with perceived effort).

3) When readings were abnormally high, I put my hand over the transmitter to force it into better contact with my skin. Result - readings came down over a few seconds to more believable values.

Conclusion - it seems to be a contact issue, as some have suggested (thanks!).

I've also spoken to several folks with a-fib, and they all assure me that if I were going into a-fib, I would notice the physical effects, so I'm pretty sure that's not an issue for me.

For this morning's TT training session, I used some electroconductive gel (purchased for ultrasound treatments, but supposedly good for HRM also). Unfortunately, my Garmin would not turn on* so I was unable to test whether or not the gel helps.



* Apparently, Garmin units can sometimes "lock up" and not respond to power on command. The solution is to:

Press the "Mode" and "Reset" buttons at the same time, for about 10 seconds. Let go of those two buttons, press the power button, and the unit will turn back on.

cyclehen

Contact your doctor. I had a similar thing happen, so my doc put me on a 24 hour Holter (small portable) monitor which I used while I exercised. Turned out it was nothing to worry about, but better safe than sorry, and the portable monitor is such an easy thing to do.

Richard Cranium

The real problem is losing trust in your monitor. You don't need these distractions.... Keep extra monitors around for reference or backup.

rm -rf

I keep answering this same question. It is kindof freaky when you see it jump.

It's most likely "flapping jersey syndrome" when the jersey material builds up static in dry air, and the wind flaps it against the chest strap. My monitor would jump from the normal 130-140 to 220 within a few seconds.

Try holding the jersey away from the strap and see if it goes back to normal, or flap it by hand after you brake to a stop and see if you can recreate it. Wetting the jersey should work, too, but I can't try that in winter here. It never happens in the humid Ohio summers.

Let us know if you can recreate these situations.

Edit--this matches up with the problem being static charged jersey material:
For example, see these recent threads:

Anyone experience a HR spike on descents?

Scaring an old guy.