telenick

I use the following:

220 - (age) - 6 - RHR X (HR%) + RHR

The 6 value is subtracted because I live 10,000' above sea level and apparently MHR goes down that much from sea level to my elevation.

So, as a practical example my THR for 85% of maximum is as follows:

220 - 42 = 178 - 6 = 172 - 45 = 127 X .85 = 108 + 45 = 153 (85% of max HR)

stapfam

Too many figures for me. You can only ride to a certain level, and that is different from person to person. In an ideal world your equation is probably correct, But don't keep it a hard and fast rule. I am 57, can reach my age related Max of 165 on occasions, but can ride at 90% of MHR all day, I can also get above MRH on extreme occasions. So why does a 30 year I ride with old walk all over me and yet he only ever gets to 75% of his age related Max. The highest he ever got was to 90% and he was shatterred, and took a long time to recover. Everyone is different so work out all your equations and then ride at a level that suits you.(Forgot this bit, Plus a bit more, if better fitness is your aim.)

telenick

Really? That's too many figures for you? Well, thanks for your thoughts anyway.

Stepfam, your last statement is kinda funny to me.

This is the training and nutrition forum. Right?

Regardless, I decided that I wanted to break my racing plateau. I usually place or win the men's sport vet class. I've never won in expert vet. I want to change that this year. I know that dialing in my HR zones and then training respectively would help me reach my goal. I have been going to spin class for the last 5 months getting reaquainted with my HRM. My Vetta cyclo computer broke last season so I put my Polar XT Trainer on the bike as my new replacement. The calculations seem to be fairly spot-on based on my observations in class. But I was seeking some advice on other's findings. I guess I could always ask one of the spin instructors who teach my class. But then again, there's so many folks here who probably have varied points of view and I would appreciate hearing them.

telenick

Riding all day at 90% is a fairly dubious statement unless all day is less than two hours. I suspect that your HR calculations are not in line with your fitness level. I've read that the age specific HR chart can becomes less accurate with very fit persons that are over 30. Maybe this is the case with you. But reading into your reply, I suspect that you don't put a lot of emphasis on training with a HRM. Why the 30 yo trounces you at 75% but can't sustain a 90% THR and worse yet can't recover quickly is probably a sign of average fitness ...although, hard telling not knowing more data on this specific example. Riding at a level that suits is the very reason that one uses a HRM. Your body speaks a different story more loudly than does the HRM. So staying in a "suitable" HR during a ride isn't going to get me to my goal.

telenick

Stepfam, are you pulling my leg? I just read a post that said you were crushed the next day by a 1 hour spin class where you spent the entire hour at 90% of MHR. Spin Class Thread

In this thread you claim to ride at 90% all day long ...no problem. I'm cornfused by your conflicting statements. I think my bullsheet detector just pegged the red line.

stapfam

All day ride of 12 hours, Max HR of 165, according to age, and this is where I am bushed, Barring downhills where I do not work, Gravity takes over, I ride at 150 Verified by 4 hour ride at average of 145 last week. This takes a 20 minute warm up to get to, and from then on Heart rate is high. All you fit buggers out there with resting heart rate of 40 are looking at this and saying it can't be done. I have a resting heart rate of 75. With severe resting it can drop to 65, but this takes hours to get to. Riding within my very narrow range of Heart rate,Resting to Age max is only 90, 25 year old with resting of 40, this is nearer 160. Now drop 10 %from your max and it is higher than mine. Difference is, I have a Higher heart rate than most. Medical fact. The fact that I can no longer Go comfortably above my max age heart rate now is due to Betablockers, Which I have to take. At an age of 52 I had a bypass, but it was not until after the bypass(New Tubes) that I could do this. The point I am making is that everyone is different, You cannot set a rule that will work for everyone. I have been using a heart moitor for 8 years and know my body, and Heart.
Incidentally, have you tried a spinning class, or are you one of these fit buggers that can climb every hill in top gear, They are different, they are hard and they hurt, Even if you are fit.

telenick

I attend a spinning class twice a week October - May. My last class for the season is tomorrow. I find it hard to believe that you can ride all day at 90%. But I will acknowledge that there are different circumstances for different folk and that I'm certainly no HR monitor guru ...not even by a long shot.

Csson

I don't know much about heart rates but I do know that the (220 - age) thing is an approximation for the general population. That is, at my age of 27 I could easily have a actual MHR anywhere between 180 and 200 (probably even wider) without being abnormal. Just because the average income for 27 year olds is $30000 (just an example) doesn't mean that every 27 year old earns $30000. So when stapfam rides at 90% of his (220-age) MHR he is more probably riding at ~70% of his actual MHR.

I did two or three spinning classes almost every week between December and March this winter. I also got my first HRM this christmas. I find spinning classes very hard, but the funny thing is that my avg HR for a 45-60 minute class was around 145 with the highest avg at 150. When spring came around I found that I can easily have an average of 145 after an hour on the road without any signs of fatigue.

Numbers can help, but my opinion is that it is more important to listen to the body.

/Csson

DnvrFox

For a conditioned individual, for MHR:

205 - 1/2 age

According to the book "Precision Heart Rate Training" Edmund Burke

who also states that a conditioned individual most likely will NOT lose 1 beat per year MHR, and there may indeed be no loss at all!

nutbag

I also feel that the general guidelines are far too general. I've been using heart rate monitors for the whole 19 years that I've been riding (yey me), and my maximam HR was ~202 when I was 19 and it's still ~202 at age 38. Infact I saw '204' on my monitor recently when I was chasing an a-hole truck driver who nearly killed me (couldn't catch him), but that was obviously partly due to adrenalin. Is this my new maximium? I'm not sure.

Telenick, have you just started riding, or are you just curious?

If you don't yet have a good level of fitness, your HR readings will be somewhat spurious (I've been dying to use that word) as you will, if you ride consistently, become much fitter very quickly.
Once you've achieved some fitness, you will soon find out what HR you can sustain during a
steady-state workout without "going anaerobic".

You may want to test your maximum HR by performing an all-out sprint, but you'd wanna be in reasonable health, and it's difficult to watch the monitor when you're thrashing all over the road. Some inexperienced riders also lack the confidence to do a maniacal sprint, with limbs flailing geverywhere.

Percentage guidelines can also be a bit general. Most regimes recommend doing the occasional workout with your HR at 85% of maximum in order to achieve a positive aerobic effect, but some time-trialers can sustain a figure of 93% or 94% for a full 25 mile time-trial if they are in good condition.

Anyway, I'm sick of typing

PS. I don't think I could ride at 90% all day either -- my legs would give out.

PPS. Unless the spin class provides strong fans and/or very good air-conditioning, you're gunna get much hotter riding indoors than out, which will obviously increase you HR. My HR goes up to 120 just sitting in a sauna for 10 mins!!

roadbuzz

Maybe I'm missing something... does the Polar XT Trainer not capture MHR? If you have a working HRM, and you race, who gives a r/a about calculations? They're just something to tide you over until you figure it out for real. So, in your next race, just after the attack at the top of the sprint climb, check your HRM. If you aren't over-trained, it'll be d@mned close to your max, or you're ready to upgrade to a tougher category.

But here's the thing... because of people like stepfam and myself, MHR is a poor baseline to use for training thresholds. Most coaches recommend using your lactic threshold or anaerobic threshold (which is close enough). There's a sticky thread at the top of this forum that gives one way to get a reasonable estimate. And, you can figure out your zones using anaerobic threshold w/out even knowing your MHR, you just need to have a good feeling for your capabilities in order to get the most out of the test.

I'm similar to Stepfam, I can spend a lot of time at 90% for hours. And in a TT last week-end spent 45 minutes with an average that exceeded 95%. In my case, it's not because I'm Lance Armstrong. It's partly because of conditioning, and partly because of a reduced MHR due to age. Using %MHR would put my training zones too low to be useful.

telenick

Thanks nutbag,

I appreciate your typing to respond.

I agree about the very fuzzy nature of one size fits all HR calculations. It's for that reason that I posted this. I did see the sticky you mentioned. I've been riding and racing for 22 years in CO both mtn and road. I've never been one for HR training. It kinda came about after being chastized (in a gentle way) in spin class for not using a HR monitor. So, I dug out the old Polar gear ...sent it in for new batteries and showed up to spin with not much of a clue. I was given the calc by an instructor. Since then, I've gotten curious. Hence this post. The spin class does have fans but the room is hot regardless.

I haven't seen spurious results yet.

My fitness level is prolly above average but not super human. I skin up Copper Mountain most mornings in the winter before work. I've competed in back country type ski endurance events and lust for soulfull turns while hiking to back country huts with friends.

I'm gonna try an all out sprint shortly. I just need to not be involved with a group ride since I'm gonna flame out my legs and then limp back home for a recovery drink. Guiness works for that, right?

Anywho, thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate your thoughts greatly.