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  1. #1
    Fresh Garbage hairnet's Avatar
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    Sugar: The Bitter Truth



    Hello, this video has been going around my area with a lot of discussion. It's all about the noxious effects of fructose. Watch it if you have the time, it is long.

    Thought I'd pass it on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    I'd rather ride a greasy bowling ball than one of those things.
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    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    OUTSTANDING!

    I wasn't expecting to watch the whole thing, but it was just too good to stop.

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    is there a 1 minute version of that video?

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    Fresh Garbage hairnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    OUTSTANDING!

    I wasn't expecting to watch the whole thing, but it was just too good to stop.
    How'd you like the "coke-conspiracy" ? It makes me glad I really booted that sort of stuff a couple years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    I'd rather ride a greasy bowling ball than one of those things.
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    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairnet View Post
    How'd you like the "coke-conspiracy" ? It makes me glad I really booted that sort of stuff a couple years ago.
    I got tired of sickly-sweet carbonated crap back in my 20's.
    And since then I have read that the *carbonation* has bad effects, let alone all the other garbage in it.

    I just barely remember the taste of the original Gatorade he mentions.
    I do recall that the salt was noticeable, and a lot of people did not like it.

    I'm going to watch that again.

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    excellent information, thx for posting!

  7. #7
    a.k.a. QUADZILLA LoRoK's Avatar
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    I liked it. I often get frustrated when I go shopping with how difficult it is to find good food at the regular grocery store. The part where he was talking about the bread is totally true. I gave up on buying jelly a long time ago, and haven't bought peanut butter in a year. It's sad, pb&j is one of my all time favorite foods.

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    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    The body can't process sugar, is it worse than cigarette smoking?. Probably. Stick to honey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
    The body can't process sugar, is it worse than cigarette smoking?. Probably. Stick to honey.
    Honey has just about the same fructose/glucose ratio as high-fructose corn syrup with a little maltose and other sugars in addition. It's processed by the body in the same way as HFCS.

    Are there any animal studies confirming the link between fructose consumption and liver disease? The link between alcoholism and cirrhosis is very clear. If consumption of fructose were really just as bad I'd expect to see an overwhelming epidemic of liver failures given how many people consume fructose to as great an extent as a typical alcoholic consumes ethanol.

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    Fruit must be real bad for you. Lots of fructose.

  11. #11
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoRoK View Post
    I liked it. I often get frustrated when I go shopping with how difficult it is to find good food at the regular grocery store. The part where he was talking about the bread is totally true. I gave up on buying jelly a long time ago, and haven't bought peanut butter in a year. It's sad, pb&j is one of my all time favorite foods.
    You can find some jelly and peanut butter that is natural without all the extra added crap. I won't buy peanut butter that has more than 1 ingredient. Peanuts.

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    Single-serving poster electrik's Avatar
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    You'd have some trouble eating that much fructose through fruit(which also comes with fibre)

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    Single-serving poster electrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Honey has just about the same fructose/glucose ratio as high-fructose corn syrup with a little maltose and other sugars in addition. It's processed by the body in the same way as HFCS.

    Are there any animal studies confirming the link between fructose consumption and liver disease? The link between alcoholism and cirrhosis is very clear. If consumption of fructose were really just as bad I'd expect to see an overwhelming epidemic of liver failures given how many people consume fructose to as great an extent as a typical alcoholic consumes ethanol.
    Fructose does not produce an aldehyde like ethanol, hence no cirrhosis of the liver

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    Senior Member Kaneko's Avatar
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    Thank you for the post! One of the best video I have ever seen!!

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    Fax Transport Specialist black_box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arexjay View Post
    Fruit must be real bad for you. Lots of fructose.
    as mentioned, bananas have fiber which helps limit the intake and also to digest the carbs (per the video? I think thats what he said).
    20oz of coke = 65g sugar = 4.6 bananas.

    excellent video and easy to watch, a shorter version would be useful for passing it around though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    Fructose does not produce an aldehyde like ethanol, hence no cirrhosis of the liver
    I agree, but Lustig seems to blame the liver inflammation on the acetaldehyde then involving c-Jun N-terminal Kinase 1 (JNK1) [see around 55 minutes in video] which is also involved in fructose metabolism [at 1:06 of the video]. He makes a big deal about fructose acting as "a poison" in the liver.
    That's the part where I'm skeptical. His graph just before that part of the video (1:05:46) is also not very convincing - he draws some nice straight lines through the scatterplot of actual data points that look almost random. I'll trust that it is a least-squares fit, but the confidence I'd have in it is very low (the correlation coeff. is 0.2).

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    Quote Originally Posted by black_box View Post
    as mentioned, bananas have fiber which helps limit the intake and also to digest the carbs (per the video? I think thats what he said).
    20oz of coke = 65g sugar = 4.6 bananas.
    OK, but our chimp relatives eat about 4 pounds of bananas and other fruits per day. With a typical banana weight of 120 g, that's over a dozen bananas and the chimp is getting almost the same sugar content as a 2 liter bottle of Coke. The sugar in bananas is about half fructose, so pretty similar to the Coke. I'd expect our basic metabolic processes to be essentially the same as the chimp with some differences such as lactose tolerance. So it would surprise me if the fructose consumption would be a problem in itself.

    One clear difference between us and the chimps is that they aren't sitting quietly on a couch while munching on all that fructose-rich fruit. They need to get lots of exercise swinging through the trees to get the fruit. What's not clear in Lustig's presentation is whether consumption of fructose (whether in the form of sucrose, HFCS, or other sugars) is harmful in individuals who are exercising at a level where they are using all the calories they consume.

  18. #18
    Single-serving poster electrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    I agree, but Lustig seems to blame the liver inflammation on the acetaldehyde then involving c-Jun N-terminal Kinase 1 (JNK1) [see around 55 minutes in video] which is also involved in fructose metabolism [at 1:06 of the video]. He makes a big deal about fructose acting as "a poison" in the liver.
    With ethanol consumption the cirrhosis is caused directly by the reactive oxygen from the aldehyde, the reactive oxygen will also cause inflammation via activation of jnk1(also activated by fructose). Lustig defines fructose as a poison because it fits the definitions given for a poison - that is an ingested substance that only the liver can metabolize.

    That's the part where I'm skeptical. His graph just before that part of the video (1:05:46) is also not very convincing - he draws some nice straight lines through the scatterplot of actual data points that look almost random. I'll trust that it is a least-squares fit, but the confidence I'd have in it is very low (the correlation coeff. is 0.2).
    I can't really comment on his data... sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    Lustig defines fructose as a poison because it fits the definitions given for a poison - that is an ingested substance that only the liver can metabolize.
    But I've only heard that as the definition of a poison from Lustig. Mosby's Med. Dictionary defines a poison as:
    "any substance that impairs health or destroys life when ingested, inhaled, or absorbed by the body in relatively small amounts. ..." without any mention of exclusive liver metabolism as a requirement. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed any skull & cross bone labels on orange juice containers despite the high fructose content.

  20. #20
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    All in moderation.

    God doesn't want us eating 12 bananas a day, unless your a god damn idiot or drinking a 2l bottle of coke. I can safely say anything in moderation won't kill you.

    Also, lets not compare fruit to processed sugar, there worlds apart in terms of curing proven symptons, illnesses & ailments. Fruit got rid of my skin conditions, sugar gave me bad acne. Pineapple totally cured my illnesses related to poor a digestive system. Go figure. Anyone choosing processed sugar over fruit ain't gonna cycle fast for long.
    Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 01-21-10 at 12:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoRoK View Post
    I liked it. I often get frustrated when I go shopping with how difficult it is to find good food at the regular grocery store. The part where he was talking about the bread is totally true. I gave up on buying jelly a long time ago, and haven't bought peanut butter in a year. It's sad, pb&j is one of my all time favorite foods.
    http://shop.onceagainnutbutter.com/c...?categoryId=15
    http://www.bionaturae.com/spread.html

    These should suffice if you can't find anything locally.

  22. #22
    Single-serving poster electrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    But I've only heard that as the definition of a poison from Lustig. Mosby's Med. Dictionary defines a poison as:
    "any substance that impairs health or destroys life when ingested, inhaled, or absorbed by the body in relatively small amounts. ..." without any mention of exclusive liver metabolism as a requirement. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed any skull & cross bone labels on orange juice containers despite the high fructose content.
    Uh, ok... i think you're reading into this too much. Excess fructose can impair health, will destroy life through chronic over ingestion, and is absorbed by the body in a small amount - the rest of which has to be metabolized by the liver like many other poisons. It doesn't have a skull and cross bones on it, but not all poisons have a skull and cross bone on them. The ethanol in your beer is one and mentioned in the presentation.

    If you think it's safe to drink 1L of OJ a day and that you won't develop metabolic syndrome, that is cool. Otherwise i'm calling your bluff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    Uh, ok... i think you're reading into this too much. Excess fructose can impair health, will destroy life through chronic over ingestion, and is absorbed by the body in a small amount - the rest of which has to be metabolized by the liver like many other poisons. It doesn't have a skull and cross bones on it, but not all poisons have a skull and cross bone on them. The ethanol in your beer is one and mentioned in the presentation.
    So are you supporting Lustig's definition of a poison (ingested substance that is only metabolized by the liver) or not? By Mosby's Med. Dict. definition (any substance that impairs health or destroys life when ingested, inhaled, or absorbed by the body in relatively small amounts. ...) fructose clearly doesn't qualify. Sure it can be harmful in very large amounts, as can almost anything, but it's generally considered to be healthy when consumed in moderation. But Lustig clearly labels it as a poison and implicates it as causing liver inflammation in addition to other negative health effects.

    And I'm skeptical of the evidence he provides since most of what I saw in the video just confirmed that drinking lots of sweet soda isn't good for people - not a surprise given how obesity is associated with so many medical problems in our society. But there's a big jump required to get from there to Lustig's conclusion that it's specifically the fructose that's at fault as opposed to the high caloric intake coupled with a lack of corresponding physical activity. A study comparing groups with the same calorie diet and same physical activity but with one consuming lots of glucose while the other consumed that amount of fructose would seem to be an obvious way to test his hypothesis - which is why I initially asked if there were any animal studies like that. The closest he came to that was the short (6 day) study of med students. Interesting, but insufficient to show long-term health, or even obesity, effects.

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    Senior Member ahmose's Avatar
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    thanks for the video, it was very informative.
    I normally eat a bit of fruits every day (more than 100 grams of sugar, mostly from fruits).
    I guess that would be 50 grams of fructose, which is equivalent to 1 can of coke/pepsi.
    Ofcourse, you also get fiber, micro-nutrients etc... with the fruits.
    This video contradicts with some of the diets that i've seen which advocate eating as much fruits as you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmose View Post
    thanks for the video, it was very informative.
    I normally eat a bit of fruits every day (more than 100 grams of sugar, mostly from fruits).
    I guess that would be 50 grams of fructose, which is equivalent to 1 can of coke/pepsi.
    I don't see any problem with that level of fruit consumption. But 100g of sugar is about 400 kcal and is equivalent to about 2.5 cans (12oz.) of Coke/Pepsi. The fruit and soda both have around half of their sugar content in the form of fructose with some variation depending on the type of fruit

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