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  1. #1
    Kid A TurbineBlade's Avatar
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    Anyone have issues doing weights while cycling? (fatigue)

    Hello, I usually ride 30 miles 4-5 times a week commuting to work, and usually will do a 25-50 mile ride (hilly) on the weekend. I like the idea of keeping some muscule on my upper body and usually do sit-ups and pushups 2 times per week during down time.

    The only downside I find is that doing this seems to induce at least *some fatigue during a ride the next day.....depending upon how windy it is.

    Anyone else have this issue? I haven't found an real way around it, but I sometimes think about just focusing on riding alone since I enjoy it the most.

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    I'd suggest to keep doing them. Push ups and sit ups should not create that kind of fatigue. As you continue to do them and progress with building core strength and upper body, you'll find the fatigue decreasing. Good luck!

    koffee
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    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurbineBlade View Post
    I like the idea of keeping some muscle on my upper body and usually do sit-ups and pushups 2 times per week during down time.
    Push-Ups & Sit-Ups are bodyweight exercises, not weights.

    How do you do weights while cycling?

    For the body to adapt, you should be looking at doing your weights at least 2-3x per week. Same volume (Reps/sets), same intensity & once your body/CNS has adapted, increase the volume/intensity/weight... The body won't adapt/strengthen at 2 times per week.<<< I'm wrong there, sorry.
    Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 04-19-10 at 08:42 AM.

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    Kid A TurbineBlade's Avatar
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    Maybe I should clarify: I was doing freeweights - bench, squats, etc. I found that daily riding was really making me sluggish when doing squats, so I quit those entirely. Sometimes I stand and sprint for extra if I am really rested and feeling well...

    I sometimes still hit the bench, but mostly just do pyramid push-ups (100) and leg lifts in my living room now. I find that often I feel a bit tired when riding after doing any kind of weights or body-weight stuff. Basically that even though the two activities are different, they still compete for my energy level.

    That's all.

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    Pat
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    I do upper body weight lifting and core building stuff. But, since I cycle on a daily basis, I do not do leg work. If you work out with weights for the legs and do it as your are "supposed" to do until muscle fatigue, you really need a day to recover before you can do an intense road work out on the bike.

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    Faster than yesterday
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    Quote Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post

    For the body to adapt, you should be looking at doing your "weights" at least 4-5x per week....The body won't adapt/strengthen at 2 times per week.
    If you're only doing a few push-ups a day, then yes you can do them every day if you want. The question would be if you're actually accomplishing anything.

    If you're doing any kind of real strength training, 2x or 3x a week is appropriate. The body will certainly adapt at that frequency, if the intensity and volume are right.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    depends on how many you're doing I guess.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
    <snip>
    For the body to adapt, you should be looking at doing your "weights" at least 4-5x per week. Same volume (Reps/sets), same intensity & once your body/cns has adapted, increase the volume/intensity/weight... The body won't adapt/strengthen at 2 times per week.
    Wrong. You will get stronger at 2X/week if you do full-body workouts. You can maintain at once/week.

    The whole problem with using weights as part of a cycling training program is that any weight work you do will take away from your energy on the bike, which can be counterproductive, making the rider weaker on the bike, though stronger in the weight room. You have to decide how it works best for you.

    Weight work is all anaerobic, and anaerobic intervals always take it out of a person.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    may I add that REST is highly under rated! :-)
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    During the riding season I only go to gym once a week to maintain but I still do yoga or pilates for core and balance. I do no leg weights during riding season. Yes with proper form you should not injure yourself but we don't always have perfect form do we.
    Best thing about cycling is when I'm at work I'm thinking of cycling, when I'm cycling I'm thinking about cycling.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    summer is for showing off what you built up all winter
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    may I add that REST is highly under rated! :-)
    Undertraining Vs Overtraining? I vote for the former, Less is more!

    As a practical matter, almost all training should be undertraining because the only way to know your exact limits is to actually cross them, and then it's too late. If you over-train, you are basically opening pandora's box of injuries and CNS overload performing weights & cycling. When an athlete is overtrained, the extended recovery time negates any sort of increase in performance that the athlete may have had.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    well said

    however have you ever heard something to the converse? "if you never fail you're not trying hard enough"

    I like dancing around oevrtraining; meaning pushing until Im almost overtraining. its a morpheus; elusive and ambiguous line though. it is a temptress; a siren luring us to the cliffs to which my IT Band will attest
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    well said

    however have you ever heard something to the converse? "if you never fail you're not trying hard enough"

    I like dancing around oevrtraining; meaning pushing until Im almost overtraining. its a morpheus; elusive and ambiguous line though. it is a temptress; a siren luring us to the cliffs to which my IT Band will attest
    Overtraining is when you have crossed the line to negatively affect your progress. In short, you can train very hard without overtraining and supercompensate hard as a result. It all comes down to timing and recovery elements.

    I think some cyclists could push too hard in the weight room because they lose sight of how the weights fit into the overall picture. Cycling should be the primary high intensity stimulus in the training. The weights merely supplement that. Pushing too hard in the weight room is inevitably the result of overestimating the importance of road work relative to weights. I think if riders and coaches think of output in the weight room as more a reflection of output on the road, rather than the other way around, they're more likely to place primary emphasis where it belongs and avoid over extending in the weights. (I think I got that right or is it the other way round).

    I wouldn't dramatically increase weights during training for more than one day, followed by carefully planned recovery. You cannot ride on chronically tired legs.

    “Strength endurance is characterized by a combination of great strength and significant endurance”

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    I agree

    personally I use various training for my body transformation. I'm not a competitive cyclist but I ride a lot. I don't swim/ race but I swim 1500 meters for the unique upper body benefits. I certainly don't do any body building competitions ... haha but I do carefully planned intense upper body weight training. I'll never run a marathon but the miles I put in on the track and treadmil round out the whole program.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    Senior Member TJKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
    I think some cyclists could push too hard in the weight room because they lose sight of how the weights fit into the overall picture. Cycling should be the primary high intensity stimulus in the training. The weights merely supplement that. Pushing too hard in the weight room is inevitably the result of overestimating the importance of road work relative to weights. I think if riders and coaches think of output in the weight room as more a reflection of output on the road, rather than the other way around, they're more likely to place primary emphasis where it belongs and avoid over extending in the weights. (I think I got that right or is it the other way round).

    I wouldn't dramatically increase weights during training for more than one day, followed by carefully planned recovery. You cannot ride on chronically tired legs.
    Not to hijack this thread, but I began weight training in November, 2009. I am just now doing some long rides on the weekends after weekday weight training at the gym where I work.

    I do squats 4 or 5 days/week: warmup 50 lbs. 1x12, followed by 90 lbs. 4x12. (with 2 minute rest periods.)

    I then alternate days between: -lateral pulldowns, rows, triceps rope pulldowns; and
    -free weights

    After doing the first circuit (lats, tris, rows) on Friday, last Saturday I went for a 72 mile ride in the mountains. After mile 26, my legs became fatigued, and felt dead. I slowed down and recovered, but my buddy told me I should not have done the squats on Friday. Should I have done any weight training at all? Or would an entire day off have been better for my ride on Saturday?

    Thanks,
    TJ
    Last edited by TJKnight; 04-13-10 at 10:39 AM.

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    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    I do Mark Verstegens Core Performance workouts. Not everyday like the early months, as like you it affected my cycling, but scheduled around my cycling. One thing that may help is a power meter as it will quickly show if you're at the top of your game or whether you probably should have taken a rest day.

    His workouts are great. You can move around the system and target what you want. Even if you never did weights his twisting, plyometric type movements, foam roller and stretches (with cycling specific ones thrown in) will help you be better in all sports and help prevent injuries.

    I did martial arts daily for years and was constantly injured. After implementing his ideas I don't have anymore injuries in cycling or martial arts. Losing weight had a lot to do with that but so did getting more flexible, stronger core and working the muscles that don't get targeted in my activities. GL

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    I would think with enough cycling one could eliminate squats (?)
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJKnight View Post
    Not to hijack this thread, but I began weight training in November, 2009. I am just now doing some long rides on the weekends after weekday weight training at the gym where I work.

    I do squats 4 or 5 days/week: warmup 50 lbs. 1x12, followed by 90 lbs. 4x12. (with 2 minute rest periods.)

    I then alternate days between: -lateral pulldowns, rows, triceps rope pulldowns; and
    -free weights

    After doing the first circuit (lats, tris, rows) on Friday, last Saturday I went for a 72 mile ride in the mountains. After mile 26, my legs became fatigued, and felt dead. I slowed down and recovered, but my buddy told me I should not have done the squats on Friday. Should I have done any weight training at all? Or would an entire day off have been better for my ride on Saturday?

    Thanks,
    TJ
    I think your "dead legs" have more to do with not putting in enough miles & just riding on the weekends.

    A 72 mile ride in the mountains is sure going some considering how many times you get out on the bike per week (weekend). I think its a strength endurance/not putting in the miles issue rather being at the squat rack.

    Personally I don't squat. I do conventional deadlifts/romanian dealifts because it works a significantly greater percentage of the muscles and involves multiple joints. Its also the lift that recruits the larger motor units in the body. Its also the lift that prolongs "speed endurance".

    I wouldn't stop the weight training. I would exchange squats for deads, put in more miles & ride more during the weekdays. Deadlifts tax more of the body to perform so watch out for that. Stay dedicated to them & overtime you'll adapt to that stimulus.
    Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 04-13-10 at 04:41 PM.

  20. #20
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    What Sick said, plus never lift before you ride. Lift after you ride. People think "Oh that's too hard," but it's not hard at all. Your max weights might be lower, but you'll get great recruitment.

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    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Personally, I actually do my weights right before riding (Not saying that is right way or the way to go), just my personal preference, of feeling stronger on the bike. I have tried doing it vice versa but the intensity of my rides outweigh the weights intensity performed in the morning & I cannot bring myself round to doing the weights, the same day after riding. After my rides, its a 2 hour nap. The thought of a weight session would put me in an early grave.

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    Senior Member TJKnight's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips. I really wish I could ride right after I lift, but I can't. I have to go back to work.

    I'm going to try riding a couple 20-milers during the week and see if that helps.

    I'll also try doing deadlifts. Got a link to a video that demonstrates how to do them correctly? And what weight should I start with?

  23. #23
    Dan J chinarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJKnight View Post
    Thanks for the tips. I really wish I could ride right after I lift, but I can't. I have to go back to work.

    I'm going to try riding a couple 20-milers during the week and see if that helps.

    I'll also try doing deadlifts. Got a link to a video that demonstrates how to do them correctly? And what weight should I start with?
    I'd start them a little lighter than you've been squatting. Just for the 1st couple of times to get used to them, them start increasing the weight. You should end up heavier than you've been squatting. As someone else said, deadlifting can be very taxing, so do less reps & sets. I would do both squats & deads.

    I live in a cold climate & have my own periodization schedule. Since I can't ride half the year, that's when I concentrate on lifting (I also downhill ski, do an elliptical trainer & row during the winter). In the spring, I transition, then when I start biking 4-5 days a week, I pretty much stop lifting till fall. This winter I went heavier on the weights than I usually do with fewer reps. On my heaviest workout I do 6 sets of 3 reps squats and 2 sets of 3 rep deads (as well as other exercises). I got up to 205 & 215 respectively (I weigh from 140 to 150 depending on season). I think the heavy work has really helped the cycling as I feel much stronger than I did at this point last year, especially on standing while climbing hills.

    Since I assume you can bike all year where you are, you kind of have to work out your own mix. I would say you can't really do both well at the same time. You have to pick what you want to emphasize and let the other activity supplement the primary one. I would add that the value of recovery can't be overestimated. Your muscles don't grow when you lift weights; they grow while you recover from lifting weights.

    For anyone who wants to really learn about building strength with weights (as opposed to body building) I strongly recommend Starting Strength and Programming-Strength-Training. Great books. I have many other weightlifting books, including Arnold's Encyclopedia of BodyBuilding, and learned more from these than the others combined.

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    First off, TJKnight, I don't think you should jump into deadlifts without any proper training. Looking at a youtube video and then performing it correctly are drastically different. If you position your back improperly (bending in the lower lumbar area) you place yourself at a high risk for injury.
    I say this given how you squat. What are you trying to accomplish with squatting such little weight so many times? You're neither going to develop strength nor improve endurance with your 5x12 setup, especially since you're basically just squatting with the bar for your warmup. You might as well just do body weight squats for that and ramp up the weight on only three sets of 12 to 15 reps if you want to improve endurance on what strength you do have. But I'd suggest doing a 5x5 routine on squats were you increase the weight for the first four sets and drop off a little on the last so that you can focus on developing strength before you try and improve endurance.
    Don't get me wrong, I love the powerlifts (but shoulder injuries keep me from benching) and especially the Olympic lifts but there is a huge risk of injury of a novice lifter who attempts to do something they don't know what they are doing! Also do squats and deads they day before your rest day, and do take a rest day! Your neuromuscular system can only take so much at once and if you never let it rest in full at least once in a while, you run the chance of having serious fatigue issues.

    Also, don't eliminate squats and deads in full as they are the two best ways for naturally increasing testosterone levels if you lift heavy and intense enough!

  25. #25
    Senior Member TJKnight's Avatar
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    Thanks again for the comments, people. I'm trying to find the right mix of lifting and riding.

    I'll ask one of the trainers in my gym to show me how to do deadlifts.

    I am currently only 4 months into weight training, so I guess that is why I'm "only" lifting 90 lbs in the squat rack. I got the rep count from a Lance Armstrong video. What am I trying to improve by squatting? Lower back strength/endurance on long rides with lots of climbing. Is it helping? I am still working out the mix, but so far, I notice very little difference. I do play some full-court basketball immediately after lifting, and I notice a difference in strength and power doing that.

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