Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Multi-sport question

    I had a couple of skiing injuries this past winter which curtailed my skiing, though they allowed me to bike at a reduced level. I finally got back on skis yesterday and did a little randonee skiing. I was good climbing on skins, about 3000'/hr. which isn't bad for an old fool, but the descents were tough. By the time I got to the bottom my quads were really burning. Of course it was fresh snow and I took it non-stop, but still.

    So what's the best route between here and skiing a stratovolcano in a month? I need to radically improve the strength-endurance in my quads. Lower back is still painful and I have to be careful of it, so that's a little limiting. Hams and glutes are fine.

    Biking is going pretty well. 100-150 miles/week with long tandem rides of 60-70 miles now.

  2. #2
    Bulimic Arsonist. Lamp-Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Flagstaff, AZ
    Posts
    380
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would think anaerobic endurance lifting would be useful. Will your back let you do slow-squats and slow-dead lifts? If it will, pick a weight that you grit your teeth on, lifting to the count of 8-10 seconds up, 8-10 seconds down, no more than 6-10 reps per set, but many sets with little active rest in between (less than thirty seconds, maybe some jumping jacks or mountain climber calisthenics in between). I use this style to work on building burn, and pushing through it.
    The slow lifting should also hit your arms, but for pushing, pending back, snag an exercise ball. Grab it like your doing a pushup, hands 3/4 the way to the sides, and hold a pushup mid-way for 60 seconds. My best is 45 seconds. I always like kettlebells too, but would keep it light if your back is nasty.
    Hope my ideas were useful.

  3. #3
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamp-Shade View Post
    I would think anaerobic endurance lifting would be useful. Will your back let you do slow-squats and slow-dead lifts? If it will, pick a weight that you grit your teeth on, lifting to the count of 8-10 seconds up, 8-10 seconds down, no more than 6-10 reps per set, but many sets with little active rest in between (less than thirty seconds, maybe some jumping jacks or mountain climber calisthenics in between). I use this style to work on building burn, and pushing through it.
    The slow lifting should also hit your arms, but for pushing, pending back, snag an exercise ball. Grab it like your doing a pushup, hands 3/4 the way to the sides, and hold a pushup mid-way for 60 seconds. My best is 45 seconds. I always like kettlebells too, but would keep it light if your back is nasty.
    Hope my ideas were useful.
    That sounds good, quite specific, but I don't know if my back will let me. I don't know what the injury is, because insurance won't pay for a diagnosis unless I can't move my legs or lack feeling in them, neither of which is true.

    I'm guessing that some muscular attachment of the spinus erectae gave way, around L4 or L5. I felt something give. It's not a disc. I can use the back extension machine, and the cable row machine with back articulation, with no apparent damage resulting. I haven't tried straight leg deadlifts at all, or barbell squats with much weight on them. I could try the squats, working up slowly through the sets and see how it went.

    I wonder if there's something I could do, one-legged, to reduce the load on the spine?

  4. #4
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    981
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    I need to radically improve the strength-endurance in my quads.
    I don't think there are any better exercises than developing strength-endurance in the quads than what your already doing, cycling or mountain biking. I think this is about training your lactate threshold, sustainable time at threshold and ability to deal with the pain.

    Skiing is about suppleness and agility not brute force (although it can help).

  5. #5
    Senior Member Richard Cranium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Deep in the Shawnee Forest
    My Bikes
    LeMond - Gunnar
    Posts
    2,786
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So what's the best route between here and skiing a stratovolcano in a month? I need to radically improve the strength-endurance in my quads. Lower back is still painful and I have to be careful of it, so that's a little limiting. Hams and glutes are fine.
    Whatever results you achieve by talking with strangers on the Internet are incredible.

    Typically, people with specific questions about their condition and a particular future event are best served by reviewing their own training diary (their own experience) - and by other athletes of similar ilk and perspective.

    Good luck.

  6. #6
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
    Whatever results you achieve by talking with strangers on the Internet are incredible.

    Typically, people with specific questions about their condition and a particular future event are best served by reviewing their own training diary (their own experience) - and by other athletes of similar ilk and perspective.

    Good luck.
    I don't think you mean that my results would not be credible?

    But well yes! Except that those athletes would tell me to ski four times/week and that would fix it, and very true but also impossible. Once/week is all I can do. And my diary is NG, because until this winter, I haven't skied for at least 12 years. And normally I would have been skiing for years and would have been out at least once/week all this year. So it's a special case, and one with which neither I nor my skiing friends are familiar.

    And yeah, 2 weeks in the Selkirks would fix me right up. Gym membership not required. But Stoker would not be happy.

  7. #7
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    981
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Coming back from his motorcycle accident in 2001, the great Austrian skier, Hermann Maier, put in large amounts of time in the saddle for rehab, hence his great showing at the Tour de France prologue in 2003. He was spending 10 times as many hours on the bike as on the slopes, and brought him to full recovery, building up his strength endurance.

    His anaerobic threshold is said to be absolutely incredible, but it would be, the guy is a beast & trains like one.

    Prior to the accident he was heavily into the gym, putting a lot of emphasis on front & zercher squats.

  8. #8
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
    I don't think there are any better exercises than developing strength-endurance in the quads than what your already doing, cycling or mountain biking. I think this is about training your lactate threshold, sustainable time at threshold and ability to deal with the pain.

    Skiing is about suppleness and agility not brute force (although it can help).
    No, not enough force generated in cycling. G forces generated in skiing turns were enough to tear whatever in my back, just from supporting the weight of my torso. To the legs it feels more like extremely high rep squats with moderate weights. Skiing is aerobic, long runs are at or above lactate threshold. It would be interesting to squat for 5 minutes at lactate threshold. I might try that, now that you mention it. Everyone says squat 'til you puke if you really want results. Note to self: bring bucket.

  9. #9
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    How about single-leg Romanian deadlifts? Look like a great lower back workout, but not so much for the legs? Good balance though, which I also need to work on after hitting that tree . . .

  10. #10
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    981
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    No, not enough force generated in cycling. G forces generated in skiing turns were enough to tear whatever in my back, just from supporting the weight of my torso.
    If lower back is still painful and a little limiting, I would be very wary of getting back onto the slopes until you have addressed it. The slightest of slips could put you & your back out for good.

    Squatting alone won't help you with fixing the issues in your back. High rep squats with moderate weights. Oh boy, be careful man. I would start out very light, maybe with light dumbells hanging by the sides, good form/ maintain a neutral spine angle always & progress from there.

    Doing long tandem/bike rides with poor posture could be leading to your back problems also, people don't respect that highly enough. Again, maintain a neutral spine angle, rounding your back doing any sort of exercise will cause some people to have back problems for life, especially later.

  11. #11
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    981
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Good balance though, which I also need to work on after hitting that tree . . .
    Having great balance/posture comes from the entire core & torso, front/back & sides. Internal & external Obliques, Multifidus, Erector spinae, Abdominal wall, Pelvic Floor, Transverse Abdominis etc. There your priority if your wanting to stabilize the spine.




    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    How about single-leg Romanian deadlifts? Look like a great lower back workout, but not so much for the legs?

    Romanian Deadlift

    The Romanian deadlifts (RDL) may be one of the most underrated exercises in the gym. They're misunderstood and often thought of as a "simple" accessory Olympic lift, but the people who've focused on them appreciate the power of the RDL.

    For lifters with long torsos and fairly short legs, the RDL is far superior to other pulling movements when it comes to focusing on the glutes and hamstrings. While the straight-leg deadlift is often suggested for these areas, people with this body type end up putting most of the stress on the lower back, while the glutes and hams are mostly ignored.

    Because the hams respond well to low reps and accentuated negatives, you can use the RDL as a main leg movement, but don't be afraid to use it as a supplementary exercise for moderate reps (in the 6-10 range).

    I suggest rotating this movement into your routine for three weeks on, and then three weeks off. I don't normally recommend doing any one exercise so often, but this is a critical movement for strength athletes and Figure Athletes alike.
    If your back is poor, I would suggest doing these the conventional way, (two legged) to begin with. Your on two legs when sking.

  12. #12
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    OK. My hams and glutes are great, so no focus on RDL. What also helps with balance is two functioning inner ears. The bad one is gradually coming back, or maybe I'm learning to compensate.

    You betcha I'm wary. Nice round turns, nothing exciting. I just need to be able to ski 5-8K feet without a problem. I've done some barbell squats, very high reps with only 65 lbs., no problem.

    I think Sick and Lampshade are both right, need to focus on anaerobic quad stuff like squatting. I'll just have to see what I can do that doesn't bother my back. But you know, even a set of 30 only takes 1-1.5 minutes. I'd end a maxed set of 30 with only a 140 HR, because it had yet to really come up. So I bet I can squat with quite light weights if I do them slowly, put my HRM in front of me, and make just like I was doing intervals on the bike. That'll make the bodybuilders' eyes bug out. I know on the bike it takes me at least 3 minutes to reach LT.

    Maybe front squats, easier on the back?

  13. #13
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    981
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Maybe front squats, easier on the back?
    Front Squat vs Back Squat

    http://stronglifts.com/7-benefits-of-the-front-squat/

    http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_onli...s_back_squat_2

    http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2008/10/how-to-front-squat/

    Possible alternative?.


  14. #14
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Yes, that looks good too, for light weights. No collarbone pain, and a little shoulder work never hurt a cyclist. Good suggestion.

    Ooooh, I'm excited. Gotta ride tomorrow, snowshoe Monday, mebbe try squatting Tuesday. I dropped my 48 y.o. skiing buddy like a rock on Sunday, going uphill. Now to work on the downhill.

    This article seems sensible:
    http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0115.htm

    Still, I noticed that I was pretty good in the bumps if I was very fit from cycling, back when I used to ski occasionally.

  15. #15
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    chicagoland area
    My Bikes
    1999 Steelman SR525, 2002 Lightspeed Ultimate, 1988 Trek 830, 2008 Scott Addict
    Posts
    2,584
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    CF Boy. Just sit against the wall. If you put a small workout ball between your lower back and the wall, sit as if in a chair and you will get a great quad burn with no stress on the lower back.
    As my gym teacher would say.... meet the wall boys.
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

  16. #16
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Yeah, used to do that, back in the day. It hurt good, but I could never tell if it did anything for me on the slopes or not. Could you tell? It was something everyone did. I'll try it, though. Can't hurt. Heh. Have to see if I can equal my old PR.

  17. #17
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    981
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RiPHRaPH View Post
    CF Boy. Just sit against the wall. If you put a small workout ball between your lower back and the wall, sit as if in a chair and you will get a great quad burn with no stress on the lower back.
    As my gym teacher would say.... meet the wall boys.
    Would that happen to be an isometric exercise?. Or is it dynamic (movement)?.

  18. #18
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    7,578
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    It's isometric.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •