Rule of Thumb for Time in HR Zones
To preface, I've done a couple of VO2 Max testing sessions with my coach, and from that we have determined my heart rate zones. I did one of these recently, and my heart rate zones changed from when I previously did it (which was when I first began cycling).
The question: my "supra-threshold" HR zone is 161-167 (I have a max HR of 177) and my "aerobic capacity" HR zone is 168-172. In today's race, however, I sustained 166 ("supra-threshold") for 20 minutes and 168 ("aerobic capacity") for 10 minutes. Should sustaining those zones for that long be possible (given the name of the zones), or do I need to tweak them? Is there a rule of thumb for how long you can sustain supra-threshold/aerobic capacity zones? FYI I also train with power; I just like the see how they correlate. |
Totals for time-in-zone or sustained these HRs continuously for these periods?
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
(Post 10756870)
Totals for time-in-zone or sustained these HRs continuously for these periods?
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If you're training with power I wouldn't worry too much about HR zones. As you are probably aware, there are many factors that can change your HR for a given power output. A race is significantly more intense than training and your HR can be higher than normal due to extra adrenaline, dehydration etc.
What was your power output (Avg or NP) during the 20 min? Would changing the HR zones (or their names) change how you train or race? |
Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 10758940)
A race is significantly more intense than training.
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Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
(Post 10759128)
If racing is significantly more intense than your training, you need to look at your training more closely. Make training hard, race easy sort of thing.
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I've done about that on a hard pass climb, while trying to hold the wheel of a better rider. The 10 minutes at 168 is not that hard, but the 20 at 166 which probably preceded it is hard. But not at all impossible with sufficient motivation. You're a tough dude. Good for you. Don't think you need to tweak the zones. They're doing what they say they do. You should notice an effect if you recover well.
You might also have been dehydrated, which is one reason power is now the thing instead of HR. |
Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 10759392)
What was your last race?
If your racing is tougher than your training, then you need to train race pace (or go above it) in training. Your body is only going to adapt to the strain that gets placed upon it. |
Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
(Post 10759700)
As a complete one-off for me as I use cycling only to supplement, it was with a mixed bunch containing ex Cat 2 racers, keen sportive riders and TT riders in the UK. Because I'm so use to training alone & fast (99.9%) of the time, riding in a considerably large peleton that day & being shielded/drafted felt relatively easy, similar to a recovery ride. I wasn't going for the win, nor am I going to sprint, I had a game a few days later, so I finished in the bunch. I don't train specifically for cycling but if I did, I reckon I could easily hold my own even in a pro peleton from what I see on TV.
If your racing is tougher than your training, then you need to train race pace (or go above it) in training. Your body is only going to adapt to the strain that gets placed upon it. |
Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 10759771)
Uh huh...:roflmao2:
I know some will disagree but rarely come out with a reason. |
Originally Posted by besposito
(Post 10754334)
To preface, I've done a couple of VO2 Max testing sessions with my coach, and from that we have determined my heart rate zones. I did one of these recently, and my heart rate zones changed from when I previously did it (which was when I first began cycling).
The question: my "supra-threshold" HR zone is 161-167 (I have a max HR of 177) and my "aerobic capacity" HR zone is 168-172. In today's race, however, I sustained 166 ("supra-threshold") for 20 minutes and 168 ("aerobic capacity") for 10 minutes. Should sustaining those zones for that long be possible (given the name of the zones), or do I need to tweak them? Is there a rule of thumb for how long you can sustain supra-threshold/aerobic capacity zones? FYI I also train with power; I just like the see how they correlate. |
Originally Posted by caloso
(Post 10759993)
When you say you have a max of 177, was that determined by testing or are you just taking that from the 220 minus age calculation?
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Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
(Post 10759700)
I reckon I could easily hold my own even in a pro peleton from what I see on TV.
Oh, and when Kobe shoots hoops, it looks so effortless...like he's not even trying! I bet if I tried, I could compete in the NBA. |
Originally Posted by besposito
(Post 10760062)
I could easily win the Master's after watching Tiger Woods on TV. Looks like a piece of cake.
Oh, and when Kobe shoots hoops, it looks so effortless...like he's not even trying! I bet if I tried, I could compete in the NBA. I watched literally hundreds of races. When cyclists can talk to each other in the peleton, 50 miles down the road, I could do that too ala A little more training specifically dedicated towards cycling. |
Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
(Post 10759700)
As a complete one-off for me as I use cycling only to supplement, it was with a mixed bunch containing ex Cat 2 racers, keen sportive riders and TT riders in the UK. Because I'm so use to training alone & fast (99.9%) of the time, riding in a considerably large peleton that day & being shielded/drafted felt relatively easy, similar to a recovery ride. I wasn't going for the win, nor am I going to sprint, I had a game a few days later, so I finished in the bunch. I don't train specifically for cycling but if I did, I reckon I could easily hold my own even in a pro peleton from what I see on TV.
If your racing is tougher than your training, then you need to train race pace (or go above it) in training. Your body is only going to adapt to the strain that gets placed upon it. |
Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
I know some will disagree but rarely come out with a reason.
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Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
(Post 10760159)
I watched literally hundreds of races. When cyclists can talk to each other in the peleton, 50 miles down the road, I could do that too ala A little more training specifically dedicated towards cycling.
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You have too state your reasons, so I can object, or it shows lack of knowledge.
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Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
(Post 10760159)
There are technical, mechanical & most importantly, genetically gifted difference's between the sports. Its apples & oranges comparing, golf-basketball-cycling.
I watched literally hundreds of races. When cyclists can talk to each other in the peleton, 50 miles down the road, I could do that too ala A little more training specifically dedicated towards cycling. http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...pinotti_112848 Go rent a powermeter, take a nice 4 hour and 40 minute ride one of these weekends, try to average 245 watts during said ride, and report back. |
Originally Posted by ZeCanon
(Post 10760248)
They look like that because their threshold power is literally double yours.
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Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t
(Post 10760250)
You have too state your reasons, so I can object, or it shows lack of knowledge.
Since you train with power, let's see some power profiles data from you. My HR data is flat-out amazing, but I don't have the massive wattage to back it up... so even though my heart can take large loads, I am showing up to a gun fight with a paring knife. So far, several of the people who have posted in this thread are known around here for their race results and their wattage capabilities. As a matter of fact, you could look them up yourself if you'd like a base of reference. Riding without a number pinned on and without a finish-line-camera means nothing, even if it was with strong cyclists... in all likelihood, a group ride probably has about a 30% in common with a race and 70% NOT in common with a race. also regarding your "lack of knowledge" comment, several VERY strong cyclists have already posted in this thread, including forum members who do actually get contracts in the mail.... so - wattage is the language of the land - put up or shut up. |
I'm just here for the popcorn...
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to be clear - you very well may be a stunningly strong cyclist.
but if you haven't pinned on a number and entered a few actual-honest-to-god-races you and your assumptions are laughable. |
I still think I could hold my own, regardless. I've seen the speeds what they average in peletons from 0-70 Miles on some stages & sometimes, its nothing to shout about.
I train faster than them speeds. Being drafted at them speeds. Thats a completely different scenario. I'm at 25%. |
This all started by gregf83 saying... A race is significantly more intense than training.
Then I said... If racing is significantly more intense than your training, you need to look at your training more closely. Make training hard, race easy. |
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