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  1. #1
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    2-3 days a week hammering??

    this sounds like a dumb question, but its just the replies i would like to hear and then decide on my own.
    as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2, knowing i'm not moving up the ladder, but maintaining is my main goal. its tough going against the 20-30-40 year olds, but so far so good.
    and as one that has been exercising for 50 years, mainly gymnastic movements, with some upperbody weights, i came across this thought.
    if you do a very hard training session with weights for the chest, they (experts )say rest 3-4 days then do it again. same with a deadlift or squat workout. so if you have your base built up, of 6-7 days a week training in base mode, doning months of this , whay cant you hammer a 3-4 hour team ride rest a few days and then do it again. doing 2-3 of these rides a week??
    hammer 4 hours on sunday.
    ride an ez hour on monday
    take tues and wed off
    hammer 3 hours thursday
    off friday ride ez for an hour sat the repeat.
    just curious

  2. #2
    Senior Member mwchandler21's Avatar
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    That would be true if cycling were a strength exercise. But since it is aerobic you shouldn't need the time off. Just go easier(recovery ride) a day or two after your hard ride.

  3. #3
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    I'm 65, not a "racer" but I do competitive rides, always against people much younger than I. So far, so good, though last year I think I started to slip a little. My schedule is I do the hard ride on Sunday, hike for several hours Z1 on Monday, 30' Z1 on Tuesday, Wednesday some Z1 and some either FastPedal or OLP, Thursday intervals, Friday an hour or two Z2, Saturday off.

    That's about what you're talking about. The problem with your sched is that if you download your HR data and look at your zones pyramid, it's top-heavy. That's not going to work for very long. Pretty soon you'll start either overdoing it or start to lose it late in the ride. So you gotta maintain that base and work the fundamentals. I do it by cutting way back on the middle stuff and increasing the Z1 stuff. I use 63% of MHR, which happens to work for me. YMMV.

  4. #4
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Look, Sick, here's the deal. Someone once said that real roadies, in meeting one another on the road, never wave because all a real roadie wants to do is to beat the crap out of every other roadie. I assume you've spent some time on the Road Cycling forum. Very educational, mentally. Don't comment over there, they will beat the crap out of you. They are specialists at it, and they've had lots of practice. There are teams of them dedicated to the humiliation of those with whom they disagree.
    But too get my fullest respect, 'them very educationally, mentally, they will beat the crap out of you' riders, need to be in contending in Grand Tours & Major Classics for me too look up at them. Why would "regular" roadies want too beat the crap out of other "regular" roadies. Don't beat the crap out of the regular roadies? And boast about it?, beat the crap out of GT contenders. I think a lot about Lance Armstrong, regular roadies with regular jobs that beat the crap out of other regular roadies doesn't register greatness for me. No disrespect.

    And when it is all over, hope you can silently boast, That you have learned, to hit with speed, stamina and power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
    The best thing you can do on the tandem forum is buy a tandem. Then you'll have something to learn. That means having a bff, which is more difficult than buying a bike.
    I wouldn't have thought so, all the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
    Your comments have managed to attract some of that roadie feeling over here in this quiet forum. Do try to learn more and talk less. You don't have to publish all the results of your research and studies. Let it go. If you have personal experience that might help someone less experienced, well, that is what this forum is for.
    All I said was, I could be an accomplished professional cyclist if I trained to be one.

    Having said that, all the guys on here lost there health, livelihoods, partners & got there bikes stolen on the way home from work.

    Jeez.
    Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 05-06-10 at 12:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Getting back to the OP.

    Your body/CNS (Central nervous system) will eventually adapt to any new training principals you add to your training schedule/regime (within reason), overtime.
    Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 05-06-10 at 01:11 PM.

  6. #6
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    You're funny, Sick. You need to go out on a lot more group rides. Really. At least once/week. Do it. Hang in the pack the first 1/3, try giving it a little gas here and there in the 2nd third, and try to get away in the last 1/3. If you can, you need to find a much faster group.

    Didn't you ever wonder why those Grand Tour announcers say that someone, "turned the pedals in anger?" I don't recommend that, just pointing it out.

    And you should keep the comments in the same thread, instead of transferring them to a new thread. Just pointing that out.

  7. #7
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
    All I said was, I could be an accomplished professional cyclist if I trained to be one.

    Having said that, all the guys on here lost there health, livelihoods, partners & got there bikes stolen on the way home from work.

    Jeez.
    Using another thread to respond to someone from a closed thread is beyond fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    And you should keep the comments in the same thread, instead of transferring them to a new thread. Just pointing that out.
    +1, but that thread was locked.

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    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Using another thread to respond to someone from a closed thread is beyond fail.
    Lets stay on topic & get over it.

  9. #9
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Using another thread to respond to someone from a closed thread is beyond fail.



    +1, but that thread was locked.
    Yeah, umd, but what about the OP? Give the guy a moment . . .

  10. #10
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Yeah, umd, but what about the OP? Give the guy a moment . . .
    I'm saying I agree with you. It was disrepectful to the OP for sick to bring his baggage to another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerdev View Post
    as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2, knowing i'm not moving up the ladder, but maintaining is my main goal.
    I'd say that's above average, in the racing community in general, and especially on bikeforums. You may get better answers in the road racing forum, if you post in the "training status" thread. There are some guys there who have been very successful and actually know what they are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerdev View Post
    if you do a very hard training session with weights for the chest, they (experts )say rest 3-4 days then do it again. same with a deadlift or squat workout. so if you have your base built up, of 6-7 days a week training in base mode, doning months of this , whay cant you hammer a 3-4 hour team ride rest a few days and then do it again. doing 2-3 of these rides a week??
    hammer 4 hours on sunday.
    ride an ez hour on monday
    take tues and wed off
    hammer 3 hours thursday
    off friday ride ez for an hour sat the repeat.
    just curious
    As mwchandler said, cycling is primarily an aerobic sport, you don't typically need to take off that much time in the middle of the week. Many training plans are in blocks, a few days on, with some days off or easy days in between. I think it's pretty common to have monday be a rest from weekend rides/races, build up during the week, rest friday, long rides/races on weekends. Your schedule above is not far off from that but maybe harder rides wednesday and either tuesday or thursday, with the other day more endurance-paced. Intervals are more taxing on the system and may need more recovery in between.

  11. #11
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Yes I understand, umd. Thanks!

  12. #12
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
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    can we please get back to the "average rider, 55 years old and a cat2" who has been exercising since the age of 5 and can't understand why hard 3+ hour efforts on the bike isn't in his best interest?
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

  13. #13
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiPHRaPH View Post
    can we please get back to the "average rider, 55 years old and a cat2" who has been exercising since the age of 5 and can't understand why hard 3+ hour efforts on the bike isn't in his best interest?
    Eh???? Hard 3+ hour efforts on the bike are the whole point, aren't they? I mean why else ride? Gotta be a little challenging. Go out for a fast 80 mile ride and blow the legs off the thirty-somethings on the final hills. Why wouldn't you do that? If you could, I mean. If you can't, well, work up to it! Hardly anyone knows how to train, so a little knowledge and application goes a long way.

    Short rides with anaerobic efforts are another story. Geezerdom doesn't help there, but they are still great training.

    Main skill gets to be knowing how to recover. I think the OP is on the right track, just needs a little tuning, which will come as he works with his theory.

  14. #14
    Don't Believe the Hype RiPHRaPH's Avatar
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    CFBoy misses my sarcasm. How can a 55 yo, avg rider be a cat2?
    And if you've ever been 55, hard efforts are difficult to recover from.
    If you've got enough in the tank, then go for it.

    I do a hard as you can Thursday 2 hr ride and 2 hard club rides on weekends, so at age 45 I can barely succeed at it although I also play 2 to 3 hockey games a week as well.

    Again, I am a big proponent of not caring about the time on the bike, rather what you are doing to recover off the bike for the other 20-22 hours of the day
    I have enough words to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out of trouble.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiPHRaPH View Post
    CFBoy misses my sarcasm. How can a 55 yo, avg rider be a cat2?
    And if you've ever been 55, hard efforts are difficult to recover from.
    If you've got enough in the tank, then go for it.
    There are some super strong 55 year olds out there. They are just about as fast up to 60. Once they get up to 65+/-, you see performance start to diminish. This is only based on the races I've done here in the southwest.

    Thus, I believe it's quite obtainable to be an "average" cat 2 at 55. Replace your 55 above to 65 and you've got a bit more accuracy.

    Bottom line: listen to your body. If you're wiped after a hard day or two, rest. If you're feeling good, nail it.

  16. #16
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by palesaint View Post
    Thus, I believe it's quite obtainable to be an "average" cat 2 at 55.
    While that is probably true, I don't believe that it is possible to be an "average cyclist" and a cat 2 at the same time, regardless of age. Cat 2 racers are far above average cyclists.

  17. #17
    Dan J chinarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    While that is probably true, I don't believe that it is possible to be an "average cyclist" and a cat 2 at the same time, regardless of age. Cat 2 racers are far above average cyclists.
    He didn't say it was possible to be an "average cyclist" and cat 2 at the same time. By definition, I agree, that's impossible. He said it was possible to be an average cat 2 (average describing where in the range of cat 2s one falls) at age 55. Whether thats true, I don't know, but two different things.
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    Well seeing I have a Cat 1 I must be above average

    Back to the original topic - most of my training ends up being "as hard as you can go". It's the way i've always been, I just can't help it. I guess that's racer mentality. I have to force myself to do steady/easy rides to prevent burnout (which i'm often guilty of). You can get away with 2-3 days a week hammering, though, if your nutrition/recovery routine is spot on.
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  19. #19
    Dan J chinarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
    most of my training ends up being "as hard as you can go". It's the way i've always been, I just can't help it. I guess that's racer mentality. I have to force myself to do steady/easy rides to prevent burnout (which i'm often guilty of).
    It's not just burnout you have to worry about. If you're going hard all the time, you can't do the really hard work (proper intervals, etc) that leads to improvement in performance.
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  20. #20
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinarider View Post
    It's not just burnout you have to worry about. If you're going hard all the time, you can't do the really hard work (proper intervals, etc) that leads to improvement in performance.
    Hard all the time Vs Proper intervals?.

    Hes states hes Cat1, so he must be going in the right direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulclaude
    Back to the original topic - most of my training ends up being "as hard as you can go". It's the way i've always been, I just can't help it. I guess that's racer mentality.
    IMO, a great mentality for any type of athlete too have. I have that too.

  21. #21
    Banned. $ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerdev View Post
    why cant you hammer a 3-4 hour team ride rest a few days and then do it again.
    It is also becoming clear that the body adapts best to a relatively constant workload which minimizes adaptation stresses.

  22. #22
    umd
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinarider View Post
    He didn't say it was possible to be an "average cyclist" and cat 2 at the same time. By definition, I agree, that's impossible. He said it was possible to be an average cat 2 (average describing where in the range of cat 2s one falls) at age 55. Whether thats true, I don't know, but two different things.
    The OP said "as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2". Palesaint said that it is possible to be an average cat 2 at age 55, and I was agreeing with that, but pointing out that it was not what the OP was saying.

  23. #23
    Dan J chinarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    the op said "as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2". Palesaint said that it is possible to be an average cat 2 at age 55, and i was agreeing with that, but pointing out that it was not what the op was saying.
    ok
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