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Old 05-06-10, 06:59 AM   #1
rogerdev
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2-3 days a week hammering??

this sounds like a dumb question, but its just the replies i would like to hear and then decide on my own.
as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2, knowing i'm not moving up the ladder, but maintaining is my main goal. its tough going against the 20-30-40 year olds, but so far so good.
and as one that has been exercising for 50 years, mainly gymnastic movements, with some upperbody weights, i came across this thought.
if you do a very hard training session with weights for the chest, they (experts )say rest 3-4 days then do it again. same with a deadlift or squat workout. so if you have your base built up, of 6-7 days a week training in base mode, doning months of this , whay cant you hammer a 3-4 hour team ride rest a few days and then do it again. doing 2-3 of these rides a week??
hammer 4 hours on sunday.
ride an ez hour on monday
take tues and wed off
hammer 3 hours thursday
off friday ride ez for an hour sat the repeat.
just curious
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Old 05-06-10, 08:31 AM   #2
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That would be true if cycling were a strength exercise. But since it is aerobic you shouldn't need the time off. Just go easier(recovery ride) a day or two after your hard ride.
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Old 05-06-10, 10:38 AM   #3
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I'm 65, not a "racer" but I do competitive rides, always against people much younger than I. So far, so good, though last year I think I started to slip a little. My schedule is I do the hard ride on Sunday, hike for several hours Z1 on Monday, 30' Z1 on Tuesday, Wednesday some Z1 and some either FastPedal or OLP, Thursday intervals, Friday an hour or two Z2, Saturday off.

That's about what you're talking about. The problem with your sched is that if you download your HR data and look at your zones pyramid, it's top-heavy. That's not going to work for very long. Pretty soon you'll start either overdoing it or start to lose it late in the ride. So you gotta maintain that base and work the fundamentals. I do it by cutting way back on the middle stuff and increasing the Z1 stuff. I use 63% of MHR, which happens to work for me. YMMV.
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Old 05-06-10, 12:38 PM   #4
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Look, Sick, here's the deal. Someone once said that real roadies, in meeting one another on the road, never wave because all a real roadie wants to do is to beat the crap out of every other roadie. I assume you've spent some time on the Road Cycling forum. Very educational, mentally. Don't comment over there, they will beat the crap out of you. They are specialists at it, and they've had lots of practice. There are teams of them dedicated to the humiliation of those with whom they disagree.
But too get my fullest respect, 'them very educationally, mentally, they will beat the crap out of you' riders, need to be in contending in Grand Tours & Major Classics for me too look up at them. Why would "regular" roadies want too beat the crap out of other "regular" roadies. Don't beat the crap out of the regular roadies? And boast about it?, beat the crap out of GT contenders. I think a lot about Lance Armstrong, regular roadies with regular jobs that beat the crap out of other regular roadies doesn't register greatness for me. No disrespect.

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And when it is all over, hope you can silently boast, That you have learned, to hit with speed, stamina and power.
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The best thing you can do on the tandem forum is buy a tandem. Then you'll have something to learn. That means having a bff, which is more difficult than buying a bike.
I wouldn't have thought so, all the same.


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Your comments have managed to attract some of that roadie feeling over here in this quiet forum. Do try to learn more and talk less. You don't have to publish all the results of your research and studies. Let it go. If you have personal experience that might help someone less experienced, well, that is what this forum is for.
All I said was, I could be an accomplished professional cyclist if I trained to be one.

Having said that, all the guys on here lost there health, livelihoods, partners & got there bikes stolen on the way home from work.

Jeez.

Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 05-06-10 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 05-06-10, 12:41 PM   #5
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Getting back to the OP.

Your body/CNS (Central nervous system) will eventually adapt to any new training principals you add to your training schedule/regime (within reason), overtime.

Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 05-06-10 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 05-06-10, 12:56 PM   #6
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You're funny, Sick. You need to go out on a lot more group rides. Really. At least once/week. Do it. Hang in the pack the first 1/3, try giving it a little gas here and there in the 2nd third, and try to get away in the last 1/3. If you can, you need to find a much faster group.

Didn't you ever wonder why those Grand Tour announcers say that someone, "turned the pedals in anger?" I don't recommend that, just pointing it out.

And you should keep the comments in the same thread, instead of transferring them to a new thread. Just pointing that out.
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Old 05-06-10, 03:13 PM   #7
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All I said was, I could be an accomplished professional cyclist if I trained to be one.

Having said that, all the guys on here lost there health, livelihoods, partners & got there bikes stolen on the way home from work.

Jeez.
Using another thread to respond to someone from a closed thread is beyond fail.

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And you should keep the comments in the same thread, instead of transferring them to a new thread. Just pointing that out.
+1, but that thread was locked.
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Old 05-06-10, 03:30 PM   #8
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Using another thread to respond to someone from a closed thread is beyond fail.
Lets stay on topic & get over it.
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Old 05-06-10, 03:32 PM   #9
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Using another thread to respond to someone from a closed thread is beyond fail.



+1, but that thread was locked.
Yeah, umd, but what about the OP? Give the guy a moment . . .
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Old 05-06-10, 03:45 PM   #10
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Yeah, umd, but what about the OP? Give the guy a moment . . .
I'm saying I agree with you. It was disrepectful to the OP for sick to bring his baggage to another thread.

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as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2, knowing i'm not moving up the ladder, but maintaining is my main goal.
I'd say that's above average, in the racing community in general, and especially on bikeforums. You may get better answers in the road racing forum, if you post in the "training status" thread. There are some guys there who have been very successful and actually know what they are talking about.

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if you do a very hard training session with weights for the chest, they (experts )say rest 3-4 days then do it again. same with a deadlift or squat workout. so if you have your base built up, of 6-7 days a week training in base mode, doning months of this , whay cant you hammer a 3-4 hour team ride rest a few days and then do it again. doing 2-3 of these rides a week??
hammer 4 hours on sunday.
ride an ez hour on monday
take tues and wed off
hammer 3 hours thursday
off friday ride ez for an hour sat the repeat.
just curious
As mwchandler said, cycling is primarily an aerobic sport, you don't typically need to take off that much time in the middle of the week. Many training plans are in blocks, a few days on, with some days off or easy days in between. I think it's pretty common to have monday be a rest from weekend rides/races, build up during the week, rest friday, long rides/races on weekends. Your schedule above is not far off from that but maybe harder rides wednesday and either tuesday or thursday, with the other day more endurance-paced. Intervals are more taxing on the system and may need more recovery in between.
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Old 05-06-10, 03:58 PM   #11
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Yes I understand, umd. Thanks!
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Old 05-08-10, 10:12 AM   #12
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can we please get back to the "average rider, 55 years old and a cat2" who has been exercising since the age of 5 and can't understand why hard 3+ hour efforts on the bike isn't in his best interest?
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Old 05-08-10, 10:31 AM   #13
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can we please get back to the "average rider, 55 years old and a cat2" who has been exercising since the age of 5 and can't understand why hard 3+ hour efforts on the bike isn't in his best interest?
Eh???? Hard 3+ hour efforts on the bike are the whole point, aren't they? I mean why else ride? Gotta be a little challenging. Go out for a fast 80 mile ride and blow the legs off the thirty-somethings on the final hills. Why wouldn't you do that? If you could, I mean. If you can't, well, work up to it! Hardly anyone knows how to train, so a little knowledge and application goes a long way.

Short rides with anaerobic efforts are another story. Geezerdom doesn't help there, but they are still great training.

Main skill gets to be knowing how to recover. I think the OP is on the right track, just needs a little tuning, which will come as he works with his theory.
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Old 05-09-10, 06:55 PM   #14
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CFBoy misses my sarcasm. How can a 55 yo, avg rider be a cat2?
And if you've ever been 55, hard efforts are difficult to recover from.
If you've got enough in the tank, then go for it.

I do a hard as you can Thursday 2 hr ride and 2 hard club rides on weekends, so at age 45 I can barely succeed at it although I also play 2 to 3 hockey games a week as well.

Again, I am a big proponent of not caring about the time on the bike, rather what you are doing to recover off the bike for the other 20-22 hours of the day
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Old 05-11-10, 05:26 PM   #15
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CFBoy misses my sarcasm. How can a 55 yo, avg rider be a cat2?
And if you've ever been 55, hard efforts are difficult to recover from.
If you've got enough in the tank, then go for it.
There are some super strong 55 year olds out there. They are just about as fast up to 60. Once they get up to 65+/-, you see performance start to diminish. This is only based on the races I've done here in the southwest.

Thus, I believe it's quite obtainable to be an "average" cat 2 at 55. Replace your 55 above to 65 and you've got a bit more accuracy.

Bottom line: listen to your body. If you're wiped after a hard day or two, rest. If you're feeling good, nail it.
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Old 05-11-10, 05:31 PM   #16
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Thus, I believe it's quite obtainable to be an "average" cat 2 at 55.
While that is probably true, I don't believe that it is possible to be an "average cyclist" and a cat 2 at the same time, regardless of age. Cat 2 racers are far above average cyclists.
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Old 05-11-10, 10:49 PM   #17
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While that is probably true, I don't believe that it is possible to be an "average cyclist" and a cat 2 at the same time, regardless of age. Cat 2 racers are far above average cyclists.
He didn't say it was possible to be an "average cyclist" and cat 2 at the same time. By definition, I agree, that's impossible. He said it was possible to be an average cat 2 (average describing where in the range of cat 2s one falls) at age 55. Whether thats true, I don't know, but two different things.
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Old 05-12-10, 02:05 PM   #18
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Well seeing I have a Cat 1 I must be above average

Back to the original topic - most of my training ends up being "as hard as you can go". It's the way i've always been, I just can't help it. I guess that's racer mentality. I have to force myself to do steady/easy rides to prevent burnout (which i'm often guilty of). You can get away with 2-3 days a week hammering, though, if your nutrition/recovery routine is spot on.
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Old 05-12-10, 04:28 PM   #19
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most of my training ends up being "as hard as you can go". It's the way i've always been, I just can't help it. I guess that's racer mentality. I have to force myself to do steady/easy rides to prevent burnout (which i'm often guilty of).
It's not just burnout you have to worry about. If you're going hard all the time, you can't do the really hard work (proper intervals, etc) that leads to improvement in performance.
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Old 05-12-10, 05:27 PM   #20
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It's not just burnout you have to worry about. If you're going hard all the time, you can't do the really hard work (proper intervals, etc) that leads to improvement in performance.
Hard all the time Vs Proper intervals?.

Hes states hes Cat1, so he must be going in the right direction.

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Back to the original topic - most of my training ends up being "as hard as you can go". It's the way i've always been, I just can't help it. I guess that's racer mentality.
IMO, a great mentality for any type of athlete too have. I have that too.
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Old 05-12-10, 07:09 PM   #21
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why cant you hammer a 3-4 hour team ride rest a few days and then do it again.
It is also becoming clear that the body adapts best to a relatively constant workload which minimizes adaptation stresses.
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Old 05-19-10, 03:21 PM   #22
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He didn't say it was possible to be an "average cyclist" and cat 2 at the same time. By definition, I agree, that's impossible. He said it was possible to be an average cat 2 (average describing where in the range of cat 2s one falls) at age 55. Whether thats true, I don't know, but two different things.
The OP said "as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2". Palesaint said that it is possible to be an average cat 2 at age 55, and I was agreeing with that, but pointing out that it was not what the OP was saying.
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Old 05-19-10, 03:41 PM   #23
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the op said "as an average cyclist, a 55 year old cat 2". Palesaint said that it is possible to be an average cat 2 at age 55, and i was agreeing with that, but pointing out that it was not what the op was saying.
ok
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