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Old 09-27-04, 04:56 PM   #1
HDTVKSS
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Vegetarian Nutrition and Cycling

Gday ,

Ive recently gone back to a vegetarian diet after a year and a half hiatus, but its the 1st time ive gone back to it while in a high intesnity exercise program.
I was wondering if anyone could recomend either books or websites that cover nutrition guides for vegetarians in particular? Does Chris Carmichaels food for fitness cover this sort of detail?

I did a search through the forums but was unable to find what i needed.

thanks in advance

g
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Old 09-27-04, 06:02 PM   #2
Ric Stern
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what were you looking for (info wise), i've been a veggie for 15 years

ric
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Old 09-27-04, 07:31 PM   #3
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I too have recently gone back to vegetarian eating habits after a while off, and found the book "Vegan: The New Ethics of Eating" to be helpful. It has a bunch of political statements, which you may or may not find interesting, but the nutritional info was pretty helpful. You can download the entire book for free too, which made it appealing to a student on a budget.
I have mainly upped my consumption of soy products to replace the meat proteins that I had been eating, added more complex carbs as fuel for the biking, and make sure I stay hydrated at all times. Other than that, I am eating pretty much the same way that I was when I was eating meat. (and no, I'm not vegan, I just found the info interesting)
Hope this helps!
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Old 09-27-04, 07:38 PM   #4
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gday,

Ric, i guess it comes from the fact that im finding myself hungry all the time!! more so than usual. ive allready been eating about 5 - 6 meals a day and even that doesnt seem to satisfy me. my diet is pretty " clean" alot of natural foods, nuts, etc although im not keen at all on soy milk.... so i still have milk with my oats and i still eat eggs... i dunno, i just want to make sure that im doing it properly and not depriving myself of anything that i require. Other wise i feel great, just constatly hungry.

CommuterKat - thanks for that ill download it and have a sqizz and se eif i can find what im lookin for

cheers
g
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Old 09-27-04, 07:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CommuterKat
I have mainly upped my consumption of soy products to replace the meat proteins that I had been eating, added more complex carbs as fuel for the biking, and make sure I stay hydrated at all times. Other than that, I am eating pretty much the same way that I was when I was eating meat. (and no, I'm not vegan, I just found the info interesting)
Hope this helps!
Kat
I think this will prove to really be a problem. soy is going to rear it's ugly problem head here soon.we think soy is the cure all be all product. but it's the corperations that only benifit from it not humans or animals.
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Old 09-27-04, 08:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by steveknight
I think this will prove to really be a problem. soy is going to rear it's ugly problem head here soon.we think soy is the cure all be all product. but it's the corperations that only benifit from it not humans or animals.
I also added the soy as a way to get more phytoestrogens, as my body doesn't produce enough (barely any), so it is an easy way to get them without relying on drugs. I tend to only go for the organic soy, so none of that GMO stuff. Not sure about how that translates into no benefit for humans, but I am certainly reaping the benefits of it.
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Old 09-27-04, 08:34 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by HDTVKSS
gday,

R.. i dunno, i just want to make sure that im doing it properly and not depriving myself of anything that i require. Other wise i feel great, just constatly hungry.


g
Just a thought. You may be hungry a lot because your body is trying to tell you something...

Maybe you need to add some fat to that diet.

I almost suggested you try a tin of sardines but nevermind. Oops.

Soak some bread in olive oil spiced with garlic.!
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Old 09-27-04, 08:44 PM   #8
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I'm vegan.
http://www.vegweb.com has good info for recipes and the like. For Nutritional information I'd say get a book.

As for the soy comment, it's not like soy is a new thing, the asians have been making tofu forever. Soy is a commonly used item, as is corn, as is rice, as is wheat. But it's true that soy is the number one GMO product, and the non-GMO very well may be grown somewhere where they had to rip down rain forests to grow it. (And cows are eating soy also, so don't think you're doing anything better by eating a cow rather than a soy bean)

And constant hunger, eat bigger meals! Fill your plate with the pasta then go back for seconds and thirds and fourths. Make enough rice to feed a family of 5 and eat it all in only 2 meals. You get the idea.
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Old 09-27-04, 09:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by gorn
I'm vegan.
http://www.vegweb.com has good info for recipes and the like. For Nutritional information I'd say get a book.

As for the soy comment, it's not like soy is a new thing, the asians have been making tofu forever. S.
asians have always only use fermented soy products. thats far different then the use today. a little research will show some big problems popping up with soy. some hype though too. but we will find soy will cause problems that no one needs.
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Old 09-28-04, 07:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by steveknight
asians have always only use fermented soy products. thats far different then the use today. a little research will show some big problems popping up with soy. some hype though too. but we will find soy will cause problems that no one needs.
Tofu is not from fermented soy, is it?

I've been trying to move to a low fat / veggie diet (about three or four no meat days a week now), and I've also been wondering how full-time veggetarians can do it. It seems like the sheer VOLUME of food you would need to eat in order to satisfy caloric requirements would be through the roof.

So I do throw in some fat for calorie supplements, and another great calorie supplement: BEER! Seriously, a beer a night for dinner is great. Or red wine! They say the anti-oxidants in it are good for you!

I see why horses and cows are basically eating all day non-stop . . .
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Old 09-28-04, 07:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggy18
Tofu is not from fermented soy, is it?

I've been trying to move to a low fat / veggie diet (about three or four no meat days a week now), and I've also been wondering how full-time veggetarians can do it. It seems like the sheer VOLUME of food you would need to eat in order to satisfy caloric requirements would be through the roof.

So I do throw in some fat for calorie supplements, and another great calorie supplement: BEER! Seriously, a beer a night for dinner is great. Or red wine! They say the anti-oxidants in it are good for you!

I see why horses and cows are basically eating all day non-stop . . .
when i became a veggie i went from eating meat/poultry/fish on a daily basis to a veggie diet plus fish for the first two months. i then stopped eating fish and have been an ovo-lacto veggie ever since (almost 15 yrs).

i don't think the volume of my food intake is that excessive (compared to e.g., other endurance athletes), it doesn't seem to be a problem to have pasta/rice/bread/potatoes/veggies/grains regularly. it may even be that my intake has decreased a little since going veggie as i eat the same amount of carbs and reduced my protein and fat intake levels to be inline with various recommendations (rather than eating them excessively).

ric
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Old 09-28-04, 07:57 AM   #12
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I think that the volume of food eaten must increase if you change to a vegetarian diet, just due to the fact that, by volume, vegetables have fewer calories than meats. Plus if you also consider that fat has so many more calories per gram, then you'll definitely have to eat more non-fat veggies than you would meats with fat.
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Old 09-28-04, 08:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggy18
I think that the volume of food eaten must increase if you change to a vegetarian diet, just due to the fact that, by volume, vegetables have fewer calories than meats. Plus if you also consider that fat has so many more calories per gram, then you'll definitely have to eat more non-fat veggies than you would meats with fat.
why would you use vegetables to replace meat?

most people way over consume both protein and fat, and these can be reduced.
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Old 09-28-04, 08:11 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ric Stern
why would you use vegetables to replace meat?
You have to eat something!
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Old 09-28-04, 08:51 AM   #15
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I eat a lot of beans and rice, which if both eaten within the same day is a great protein. Also a lot of pastas, and yes some soy here and there. I understand the comment about soy not being the cure-all that many people think of it as, but I don't think it's harmful in moderation. The asians have been eating tofu for a long time, and that is just soy curd. It is important to stay away from GMO soy, though, in my opinion. Also, I don't think I really consume much more food now as a vegan as I did growing up eating meat and dairy. You just have to find what foods fill you up and satisfy you.

As for finding more information about veggie nutrition, Vegetarian Recource Group is a great organization that prides itself on accurate, researched information. The website is: http://vrg.org/
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Old 09-28-04, 09:04 AM   #16
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i have a strange story:
i was veg for about 9 years - one of them vegan - and i've been back to eating meat not for about 1.25 yrs. the strange part is that as a veg i suffered from lots of overuse injuries: plantar fasciitis in my feet, ITB syndrome in my quads, carpal/cubital tunnel in my arms and wrists. i'd be trying to do the right thing (run, ride, lift, practice my jazz guitar studies) and instead of seeing gains i'd see overuse injury.

now that i'm back eating meat for this much time it's all been pretty much ameliorated. i'm still not running 10k's or anything - i try to cross train and not overdo it - but i really think i was just a bit too stringy because i was so tall and thin. i'm like 6'4.5" and maybe 180-185 now - up anywhere from 15 to 20lbs from when i was veg.

so it's crazy but i'm doing way better as a non-veg. i still miss the moral side - i still think the meat industry is **** - but i gotta stay off the veggieness if it means i can ride 150 miles a week and not risk injury.

could be that i'm just not conscientious enough as veg or omnivor and i could have found a way to get more proteins and fats.

as it stands i'm just wishing i could taper my body fat now because i miss my sixpack. but it's more important to me to get all those hours on the bike and on the trail and stuff.

my advice would be to make sure you're getting lots of protein and fats mixed in since they seem to be the harder thing to find in a veg diet. trust ricStern though - he's really knowledgable about nutrition.
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Old 09-28-04, 09:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggy18
You have to eat something!
i'm not saying you don't! i just wondered why you swapped meat for veggies -- normally you'd use a meat alternative to replace meat (e.g., Quorn, TVP, legumes, etc).

ric
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Old 09-28-04, 09:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boze
i have a strange story:
i was veg for about 9 years - one of them vegan - and i've been back to eating meat not for about 1.25 yrs. the strange part is that as a veg i suffered from lots of overuse injuries: plantar fasciitis in my feet, ITB syndrome in my quads, carpal/cubital tunnel in my arms and wrists. i'd be trying to do the right thing (run, ride, lift, practice my jazz guitar studies) and instead of seeing gains i'd see overuse injury.

now that i'm back eating meat for this much time it's all been pretty much ameliorated. i'm still not running 10k's or anything - i try to cross train and not overdo it - but i really think i was just a bit too stringy because i was so tall and thin. i'm like 6'4.5" and maybe 180-185 now - up anywhere from 15 to 20lbs from when i was veg.

so it's crazy but i'm doing way better as a non-veg. i still miss the moral side - i still think the meat industry is **** - but i gotta stay off the veggieness if it means i can ride 150 miles a week and not risk injury.

could be that i'm just not conscientious enough as veg or omnivor and i could have found a way to get more proteins and fats.

as it stands i'm just wishing i could taper my body fat now because i miss my sixpack. but it's more important to me to get all those hours on the bike and on the trail and stuff.

my advice would be to make sure you're getting lots of protein and fats mixed in since they seem to be the harder thing to find in a veg diet. trust ricStern though - he's really knowledgable about nutrition.
i don't feel that you can link those injuries with a vegetarian diet. if anything, it sounds like you were undereating as a veggie and weren't getting enough energy in to your system. that would have an impact on being able to ride enough and recovery etc -- it's nothing to do with a lack of meat.

if you wanted to go back to being a veggie (as you're hinting at, i'm not suggesting you or anyone does that) then you need to increase your energy intake to match that of your non veggie diet. this could be done through e.g., increasing carb intake (i.e., pasta, rice, spuds, etc)

ric
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Old 09-28-04, 10:22 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ric Stern
i'm not saying you don't! i just wondered why you swapped meat for veggies -- normally you'd use a meat alternative to replace meat (e.g., Quorn, TVP, legumes, etc).

ric
Originally I reduced the amount of meat I was eating just because I wanted to lose weight, and eating calorie packed meat was not helping. I first tried just reducing the serving size, but a reasonable serving of meat sure wasn't filling me up! So I wanted food that would fill my stomach (literally) but not have tons of calories: hence eating veggies.

I have no idea what Quorn and TVP are. To get protein I've been eating whole grain bread and pasta, some yolkless egg noodles, fat free yogurt and cottage cheese. I think I get enough protein.

OK, but back to eating a lot as a vegetarian. After a four hour ride, if I restricted myself to low fat / vegetarian meals for the next subsequent day or so, then I would have to be eating bucketloads of stuff in order to replenish what I burned. How can you get around this? You just eat lots of pasta and bread?

Last edited by Diggy18; 09-28-04 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 09-28-04, 11:09 AM   #20
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I don't know what y'all are talking about regarding not getting enough out of a veggie diet. I've been vegan 7 years, and my belly is bigger than a lot of meat eater bellies.

I also run 10K's, play soccer, snowboard, mountain and road bike, all without any problems with energy.

Yes, pastas and breads are key.
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Old 09-28-04, 11:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggy18
Originally I reduced the amount of meat I was eating just because I wanted to lose weight, and eating calorie packed meat was not helping. I first tried just reducing the serving size, but a reasonable serving of meat sure wasn't filling me up! So I wanted food that would fill my stomach (literally) but not have tons of calories: hence eating veggies.

I have no idea what Quorn and TVP are. To get protein I've been eating whole grain bread and pasta, some yolkless egg noodles, fat free yogurt and cottage cheese. I think I get enough protein.
those are all good sources of protein, additionally, maybe consider legumes. TVP = textured vegetable protein (not sure what it is, as i don't eat it or only very occasionally) and Quorn is a fungii www.quorn.co.uk - not sure if it's available outside of the good ole sunny UK

Quote:
OK, but back to eating a lot as a vegetarian. After a four hour ride, in I restricted myself to low fat / vegetarian meals for the next subsequent day or so, then I would have to be eating bucketloads of stuff in order to replenish what I burned. How can you get around this? You just eat lots of pasta and bread?
to aid recovery post exercise after exhaustive exercise, you need 1.5 g/kg body mass of carbohydrates (e.g., if you're 70 kg you need 105 g of carbs). that maybe 4 slices of thick bread. but, yes, exercise is fuelled by carbs and you may (veggie or not) require say 6 - 8 g/kg body mass of carbs per day (i.e., 420 - 560 g for a 70 kg rider) if you say did 10 - 15 hrs training per week.

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Old 09-28-04, 03:07 PM   #22
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My wife and I use Quorn products (Oregon) and have found them to be very tastey. I also use TVP to add some protein to my lunch. I think the hardest part of carnivores that try these types of replacements is they are looking for exact replicas of the meat they are giving up. I find that it helps to judge the product only on the basis of whether you like it or not, not what it might be made from. Eat lots to ride lots.
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Old 09-29-04, 04:18 PM   #23
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Beans are good for satisfying hunger on a veg diet.
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Old 09-29-04, 09:53 PM   #24
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Good quote from that book mentioned earlier:

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." (Albert Einstein)
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Old 09-30-04, 06:18 PM   #25
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ric - not to hijack, but i don't think i was undereating so much as maybe not eating conscientiously enough. i was just too stringy then and now that i've bulked up a bit all the injuries have subsided and i can have more wiggle room in my training/eating/stretching routine without any flare-ups.

here's the link for that free book ppl were mentioning. wish there was an article with diet recommendations and example mealplan for that 10-15hrs of training a week person Ric mentioned. maybe you could write one for us when you get a chance!
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