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  1. #1
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Winter training: experimenting on myself

    I see that there is some interest in learning to craft a winter training program. This will hopefully turn into a thread discussing the winter program I'll be using, though possibly discussing my utter failure to manage it. The goal of the program is to be able to ride fast and hard recreationally, and participate in some difficult long distance rides spring and summer 2011. This program will look easy to begin with. It's supposed to. Anyone would be welcome to follow along with me. YMMV. You'll notice that I won't follow the suggested program exactly because of my experience in LD training, social schedule, or how I'm feeling. If no one is interested, I'll discontinue posting after a few weeks.

    Edit: This thread runs for 21 weeks. The training program was a success. I didn't get any younger, but I did get stronger again and met my goals. My recovery got a lot better, my work capacity increased, and my back pain decreased greatly. When I started, I was taking 600mg of ibuprofen twice/day for back pain. By the end of the program, I seldom took any. All suggested workouts for 21 weeks are posted here. Anyone is welcome to enjoy a great winter with them.

    History:
    I hit a tree while skiing and fractured my skull last December, then did something horrible to my back while skiing steep ice a few weeks later. My guess is that 12 years of not skiing and having dropped out of hard riding and training for a few months were the issues. Residual issues are some loss of balance and hearing, lumber stenosis, arthritic facets, and thin discs.

    I've been working on rehabbing ever since. I did the usual PT and Pilates stuff, which helped to start with. I got the best results from periodic bicycling and resting and not doing much trad PT. The wife and I have been riding a pretty strenuous group tandem ride, 30-60 miles, Sunday and then going to spin class Thursday for the past several months. We are new to training on the tandem. Two weeks ago my back felt good enough to try adding some weights. That felt OK, so this past week I started my usual winter workout program.

    This will be an investigation to see whether it's possible for an injured 65 y.o. to get it back, and specifically to see whether more work will improve his ability to recover. Current weight is about 160, which is my decade-long normal fall weight, and current recovered morning resting HR (MRHR) about 49, also normal. Max HR 160-168, depending on recovery, LT 148-154, same.

    First week (past week):
    Monday: off
    Tuesday: 0:30 zone 1. 8.2 miles on rollers. Felt good. After, 1 set of 30 at gym in order: leg sled 180, horizontal rows 70, back machine at max, squats 95, benches 75, 1 legged calf raises, situps with hips at 90, 40.
    Wednesday: 0:45 zone 3 cross training. Did 40 minutes on the Stepmill at gym.
    Thursday: 1:00 zone 2. Did an hour of spin class, relatively gentle intervals. After, 1 set of 30 as before. Legs hurt pretty good.
    Friday: 0:30 zone 2 cross training. Did it on the Stepmill. Some HR drift, not too bad.
    Saturday: 1:15 zone 2. I took it off.
    Sunday: 1:15 zone 2. Did 3:20 on a 46 mile tandem ride, about 3000' climbing. Good ride. Didn't ride too hard. HR depressed a bit: only 0:15 at LT. Average HR 128, a bit into Z3. Legs hurt pretty good by end.
    Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 03-19-11 at 10:41 PM. Reason: Added end-of-winter remarks

  2. #2
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Starting this update with Sunday:

    Sunday: Workout: 1:15 zone 2.
    Result: Did 3:20 on a 46 mile tandem ride, about 3000' climbing. Good ride. Didn't ride too hard. HR depressed a bit: only 0:15 at LT. Average HR 128, a bit into Z3. Legs hurt pretty good by end.

    Monday: MRHR 57, othostatic HR 8. Legs didn't feel too bad, but I'm cooked.
    Workout: Off
    Result: Off

    Tuesday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 13, mostly recovered
    Workout: 0:45 Z1 with 0:15 FastPedal Z2.
    Result: Interval 16.3 mph, 111 cadence. Not too bad since I haven't done these for a year.
    Weights: 2 sets of 30 on sled and seated rows, 1 set of 30 for back machine, squats, benches, one-legged calf raises, 35 situps. Already noticeably stronger.

    Wednesday: MRHR 53, orthostatic HR 15, pretty good. Back pain has decreased.
    Workout: 1:00 Z3 Cross Training
    Result: 1:03 Z3 on the StepMill. Little HR drift. Got a little difficult the last 5 minutes, but legs didn't really hurt, surprising.

    Thursday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 13. Legs feel tired from yesterday.
    Workout: 1:15 Z2
    Result: Spin class went OK, 121 average HR. During the winter, I'll largely ignore the increasing time of these Thursday workouts in favor of just doing an hour of intervals in spin class.
    Weights: same as on Tuesday. Back was sore after spin class.

    Friday: MRHR 52. orthostatic HR 15. Legs are sore and tired.
    Workout: 0:45 Z2 Cross Training
    Result: Family stuff. Took the day off. Probably not a bad thing.

    Saturday: MRHR 53, orthostatic HR 8. Recovered.
    Workout: 1:15 Z2
    Result: took the day off. I almost always take Saturdays off so I can ride stronger Sunday. Back pain continues to decrease.

    Total time for week: 7:29
    Total calories burned for week: 4756
    TRIMPS: 372
    Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 11-13-10 at 07:28 AM. Reason: added TRIMPS

  3. #3
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    This was a good, strong week. Made some progress. Pushed it just about right.

    Sunday: MRHR 50, othostatic HR 12. Recovered
    Workout: Long Ride 1:30 Z2 with 0:20 Z3
    Result: Did 4:08 on a 56 mile tandem ride, about 3000' climbing. Hard ride, good HR. About 0:40 in Z4. Average HR 131. Supposed to be a group ride, but I had my nose in the wind the whole way. Was totally trashed by the end.

    Monday: MRHR 54, orthostatic HR 5. Trashed, but legs and back don't feel too bad.
    Workout: Off
    Result: ~1:00 doing errands walking.

    Tuesday: MRHR 53. orthostatic HR 12. Mostly recovered, I think.
    Workout: Rollers 1:00 Z1 with 0:30 FastPedal Z2
    Result: Interval 16.1 mph, 110 cadence. OK, no HR drift. Slow but will get better in time.
    Weights: 2 sets of 30 on sled, seated rows, back machine and squats, 1 set of 30 on benches, one-legged calf raises, 40 situps. 2nd set was easier than the 1st. Progress.

    Wednesday: MRHR 53, orthostatic HR 14. Better than I thought it would be. Legs not too bad.
    Workout: 1:15 Z3 Cross Training
    Result: 1:15 on the Stepmill. 350 flights. HR average 123. Took it a little easier, kept the same stair speed the whole way, so only was really Z3. Felt tired, almost didn't go, but glad I did. Wasn't as bad as I expected. Legs hardly hurt. Back got a little sore, but not too bad.

    Thursday: MRHR 56, orthostatic HR 12. Training effect. Legs are sore. This will not be an easy day, either. That Wednesday workout makes for a tough early week in the sched, but that's training. Base building doesn't mean taking it easy.
    Workout: 1:30 Z2, except that I'll do spin class instead.
    Result: 1:00 spin class, 120 av. HR.
    Weights: Same as on Tuesday. Back was much less sore on the second set. Real progress on the back.

    Friday: MRHR 55, orthostatic HR 15. Training effect. Now I need a couple recovery days. Back has been much better in the mornings, though. It'll be interesting to see how my recovery is before Sunday's ride.
    Workout: 1:00 Z2 Cross Training
    Result: Only did 0:40 on the Stepmill. Felt I was pushing it too much and needed a rest day. Legs felt fine, back a little sore during. Average HR 119.

    Saturday: MRHR 53, orthostatic HR 11. Normal. Legs a little tired, not too bad.
    Workout: 1:30 Z2
    Result: Off

    For week:
    Time: 9:20
    Calories: 5846
    TRIMPS: 534

  4. #4
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    Good thread, thanks for doing this. As umd often remarks, comparing hear rates is of no use. But I still marvel at you getting thrashed on a ride, with an average HR of 125-130. What do you think you're current max is? Do you think you could reach it at this point?

    I really need to work some resistance training into off-season work. Being 38, I mostly still feel young and can't seem to force myself to do weight work. But I am noticing loss of muscle mass and general weakening. I do a little core work, but overall just ride my bike.

  5. #5
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palesaint View Post
    Good thread, thanks for doing this. As umd often remarks, comparing hear rates is of no use. But I still marvel at you getting thrashed on a ride, with an average HR of 125-130. What do you think you're current max is? Do you think you could reach it at this point?

    I really need to work some resistance training into off-season work. Being 38, I mostly still feel young and can't seem to force myself to do weight work. But I am noticing loss of muscle mass and general weakening. I do a little core work, but overall just ride my bike.
    Thank you. I've seen 164 recently, during a sprint after a long hard pull. My LT is around 148. Averaging 88% of LT for 4 hours is nothing to sneeze at, at my age anyway. I know those numbers sound low, but I'm o.l.d. Well, not really, but pretty experienced.

    I think the resistance training can help. Each person's body responds differently to training, especially weight training. I'm a hard gainer: if I can gain a couple pounds of protein a year, I'm doing OK. Hey, do that for 5 years and it's 10 lbs. of protein, more than the average cyclist needs anyway! I was at my best about 6 years ago when I was doing 3 sets of 30 at 270 on the leg sled, or 1 RM of 720. At 4.5 times my bodyweight, that was pretty good. However, there is quite a training response to doing that weight training. That's the downside. Can cut into your cycling.

  6. #6
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 4. Started off with an easier Sunday ride due to weather. End of week faded into next week's easy/rest program. So an easier week than I intended, but a week of consolidating gains.

    Sunday: MRHR 52, othostatic HR 12. Didn't feel recovered. Legs and back were a little tired.
    Workout: Long Ride 2:00 Z2 with 0:30 Z3
    Result: Result: Did 1:50 on a 27 mile tandem ride, about 1000' climbing. Average HR 131, about 0:20 in Z4.The good old PNW bit us pretty good. Wet, slick roads. My subgroup had two flats and two falls. One flat was mine - my brand new supposedly flat-resistant front went when I had no choice but to run over a broken bottle of Green Death. One single fell and a tandem. Neither were operator errors but just putting too much torque to the road on steepish climbs, maybe with non-optimal wet weather tires. We didn't notice that it was particularly slick. It was supposed to be 46 miles, but we cut it short. Not worth it. On the good side, we were pretty fast, cruising at 20-24.

    Monday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 9. Recovered, though legs feel a little tired. But first morning with a lower RHR. 10.5 hrs. sleep helped. I need to get more sleep regularly. I'm getting over that first training hump. Yesterday's ride was just a few intervals, rather than an enduro hammerfest, so I saw a recovery today.
    Workout: Off
    Result: Off - rained today.

    Tuesday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 16. Legs still feel a little tired, though. Probably nothing. Tonight should loosen them up pretty good. 40 minutes is a long time.
    Workout: Rollers 1:15 Z1 with 0:40 Fast Pedal Z2
    Result: Average interval cadence 112, speed 16.6. First time my legs felt at all supple and strong. Very good workout. I could have pedaled much faster except for the HR limitation.
    Weights: 2 sets of 30 on everything: leg sled, seated rows, back machine, squats, benches, one-legged calf raises, 40 situps. And raised weights on the sled.

    Wednesday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 10. Legs feel tired but nice.
    Workout: 1:30 Cross Train, but I'm not going to run the Stepmill that long. Too crazy.
    Result: 1:20 on the Stepmill. 389 flights. 123 average HR. Got pretty hard to keep going the last 20 minutes. Wish I could do this at a higher HR, but I'm not strong enough yet.

    Thursday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 12. Legs and back feel pretty good this morning. Didn't get the training effect from yesterday that I got last week. Starting to shape up. OTOH, will need to go harder to keep improving. HRs indicate that I'm not overdoing it.
    Workout: Off - rest day before tomorrow's TT test.
    Result: Off

    Friday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 13. Recovered. This has been my normal recovered HR for years. Good to see it again. Regular workouts have increased my ability to recover, as desired.
    Workout: 5 mile TT on the rollers.
    Result: Did a 30 minute warm-up with 2 X 1.5 X 3.5 speed intervals at 20 and 25 minutes. Then did the 5 mile TT. Average HR 151, max HR 167. I went very hard the whole last mile and then extra hard the last mile. That average HR felt like a good number for my current LTHR, which is the purpose of this test. MHR definitely felt like max. This says that both my LTHR and MHR have gone up about 3 beats as a result of this training. I like this test instead of the 2 X 20 because it's much easier for someone to do who isn't in shape yet to do 40 minutes of LT, or doesn't want to add that load to his/her training week.

    Saturday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 11. Recovered. Not much of a HR bump from the TT last night. I've often observed that a short, hard interval session reduces, rather than raises, MRHR.
    Workout: 2:00 Z2
    Result: Off. Rested for Sunday, though we're having an arctic air intrusion. Sunday may not be our usual bike ride.

    For week:
    Time: 5:48
    Calories: 3653
    TRIMPS: 396
    Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 11-20-10 at 08:20 AM.

  7. #7
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. I've been considering a similar venture for the winter. My difference is that I want to improve my single track strength.

    I got serious about riding again about 15 months ago. I enjoyed some good results, but want to push myself harder. Your thread and Bicycling Mag (Sept., 2010, Get Lean Now) seem pretty similar. There isn't much that I have found in the Mountain bike Thread about winter training. What is there is just kind of a ride ur arse off advice. Does the Winter Style training that you describe translate to all cycling, is it Roadie specific? What do you think?
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

  8. #8
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daspydyr View Post
    Interesting thread. I've been considering a similar venture for the winter. My difference is that I want to improve my single track strength.

    I got serious about riding again about 15 months ago. I enjoyed some good results, but want to push myself harder. Your thread and Bicycling Mag (Sept., 2010, Get Lean Now) seem pretty similar. There isn't much that I have found in the Mountain bike Thread about winter training. What is there is just kind of a ride ur arse off advice. Does the Winter Style training that you describe translate to all cycling, is it Roadie specific? What do you think?
    Well, since MTB racers do something like 3/4 of their training on road bikes, no I don't think it's roadie specific. I also don't think it's cycling specific. When I was really on as a road rider, I could ski alpine like a maniac. There are many crossovers. My breakthrough year skiing alpine in my teens was after a winter of competing in XC.

    When cyclists say "strength," it normally means something very different from a gym rat saying "strength." As the TV commentators say, the strongest man will win the TdF. That doesn't mean the guy with the biggest legs, in fact frequently the opposite.

    Some differences in MTB are that I think MTB places a greater emphasis on short anaerobic bursts, and on low cadence pedaling. The anaerobic burst thing I won't get into until June, if then, partly because that's the quickest thing to train. I will get into low cadence work in January and February. I'm just doing beginning base right now, including the most basic building blocks of strength endurance and pedaling technique.

  9. #9
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response. The base work is one of the things I was specifically wondering about. As a MTBer, is it to my "overall advantage" to take a couple of months of riding at a controlled tempo and building up a ton of hours in zone 2/3 vs, just riding and doing Intervals. The specific article I referred to recommends 15 minute pushes in to Z4, followed by 5 Intervals (30 or 60 seconds with a 60-120 second rest between intervals). What say you?
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

  10. #10
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Although you see that the training plan I'm using for a guide has no Z4 yet, IME it's definitely an advantage in the spring to have done some Z4 all winter. I like to do ~30 minutes of Z4/week. But that's just IME. I have two limitations, though they also apply to many other cyclists.

    1) I don't have time to rack up a ton of hours. So I'm time-limited. I'm very lucky to get in 10 hours/week in the winter.
    2) I'm weather-limited. I'm in the PNW and don't care to train at night in the rain. For one thing it's dangerous, for another I don't have enough time to clean my bike after, nor the money to replace lots of stuff if I don't clean it. Bike cleaning time has to come out of workout time. So in the winter I mostly use the gym and my rollers, getting out for a long ride once a week and hopefully doing a little snow sporting.

    However, in a perfect world I don't know if I'd do much different. You've seen that I'm doing a lot of time on the Stepmill right now. I could be doing that time on the rollers, but I want that time on the stairs to strengthen particular muscles along with certain energy and mental systems. I also want the specific pedaling drills I'm doing. Very important in winter, IME. I'm also building up to put a lot of energy into weight work. That will stand me in good stead in the summer. In a perfect world, I'd be riding outside a bit more during the week and on the weekends, too.

    I think your article is giving you good advice. Yes, do the Z4. I wouldn't do the Z5. Z5 adaptation happens very quickly. I don't see spending energy on that in winter. Instead spend that energy on weights or longer rides at lower effort levels. My priorities would be:
    1) The Z4 work. In a world of limited time, you don't want to miss the intensity.
    2) Pedaling drills. Efficiency rules.
    3) Z2/Z3 work. A broad base is a good thing.
    4) Weights. Not as important as time on the bike, but since we're working at lower levels right now anyway, our systems can handle the training load, and strength is a good thing. But weights is an add-on. Don't miss aerobic training to do weights instead.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Richard Cranium's Avatar
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    Good luck, just remember, part of the restart "bump" is from the inactivity. Keep a positive outlook, but realize where and when you need to keep it real.

    And for sure, listen to your body, you may be too enthusiastic for your good.

  12. #12
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
    Good luck, just remember, part of the restart "bump" is from the inactivity. Keep a positive outlook, but realize where and when you need to keep it real.

    And for sure, listen to your body, you may be too enthusiastic for your good.
    Thanks! Enthusiasm is just one of my many faults. Luckily, I don't eat turkey.

  13. #13
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 5. This is scheduled as an easy week. Reduced volume, similar intensity. This is Thanksgiving week, the start of the holiday silly season. Too many parties, too much bad weather. Workouts will suffer and I'll gain weight. Thing to do is just keep on truckin'.

    Sunday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 10. Back keeps getting better.
    Workout: 2:30 Z2 with 0:45 Z3.
    Result: 2:00 snowshoeing, mixed Z1 and Z2. It was too cold to ride safely, so we went snowshoeing in the mountains. Fair bit of climbing in fresh, deep snow. Good leg workout.

    Monday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 8. Recovered, not that there was much to recover from!
    Workout: Off
    Result: Wanted to go snowshoeing again, but weather was too bad for safe driving to and from mountains. Bummer.

    Tuesday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 10. HR is up from not doing any high HR work for 3 days.
    Workout: 0:45 Z1 with 0:15 Fast Pedal on the rollers
    Result: Average interval cadence 109, speed 13.6. Really slow, mostly because it was below freezing where I ride my rollers so I was wearing heavier clothing and my fluid resistance unit was cold. And partly because of not riding in a few days. But legs felt pretty good.
    Weights: Just 1 set of 30 because it's an easy week: leg sled, seated rows, back machine, squats, benches, one-legged calf raises, 40 situps. Raised weights on all the weight exercises almost to failure, though, because of only the one set.

    Wednesday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 12. Recovered. Easy workout last night. Legs feel used but fine. Back keeps getting better.
    Workout: 1:00 Z3 Cross Training
    Result: 1:00 on the Stepmill. 230 floors - different machine that counts differently. 130 average HR. First time in Z3 all the way, possibly because my HR wasn't depressed from the usual Sunday ride, possibly because I've gotten stronger. This is already close to being as fast as I ever was at this time of year.

    Thursday, Thanksgiving: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 15. Feels good. I am recovering better.
    Workout: 1:15 Z2.
    Result: Didn't do anything except eat and drink. Fun though!

    Friday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 14
    Workout: 0:45 Cross Training
    Result: Spent the day socializing with family. No workout. Had a good time in spite of myself.

    Saturday: Didn't bother with HR. No need. Only gained lb., though.
    Workout: 1:30 Z2
    Result: Nope, didn't do anything except prep for tomorrow's ride, which should be interesting with a high of 36.

    Week totals:
    Time: 4:12
    Calories: 1310
    TRIMPS: 184

  14. #14
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 6. The program this week is a repeat of earlier weeks, but with a slightly higher volume. I continued to make progress in spite of the cold weather. No biking at all this week, but nice even TRIMPS. Good effort, good recovery. We'll see how next week's Sunday ride goes, after not getting in the usual good ride for several weeks.

    Sunday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 15. Legs were oddly sore, otherwise felt good.
    Workout: 1:45 Z2
    Result: 2:11 Snowshoeing with Stoker, mixed Z1 and Z2. Stoker however, was Z2-Z4. Yes! It was cold and all our cyclist buddies chickened out, so we did snow play.

    Monday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 10. Recovered, though not much to recover from. Still, my recovery ability is much greater since I started this winter program.
    Workout: Off
    Result: 2:02 backcountry skiing. First ski this year. Made up for not riding on Sunday. Kind of brief, only ~1500' of climbing. But felt strong and got tired. Skied better than I did last spring, so the program has been good. Back didn't bother me.

    Tuesday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 13. Legs feel a bit sore and weak.
    Workout: 1:00 Z1 w/0:30 Fast Pedal Z2
    Result: Off. Legs didn't feel up to it after skiing. I'll have a stronger workout tomorrow if I rest.

    Wednesday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 17. Legs still sore from skiing!
    Workout: 1:15 Z3 Cross Training
    Result: 1:15 on the Stepmill. Average HR 131. Did 374 flights. Big improvement. Skiing and Stepmill are obviously synergistic. Legs didn't hurt during. Back was sore to start with, but felt good by the end.

    Thursday: MRHR 56, orthostatic HR 12. Training effect. Plus I partied last night, so probably some effect from that. Legs feel tired this morning.
    Workout: 1:45 Z2
    Result: 1:00 spin class. Worked hard at high cadence. HR was very responsive, got it up to 159.
    Weights: 1 set of 30 with enough weight to achieve failure. Felt heavy, some because I haven't lifted in 10 days, some because I went really hard in spin class. Didn't have time to try a second set.

    Friday: MRHR 55, orthostatic HR 14. Legs are tired, but not that sore. OK.
    Workout: 1:00 Z2 Cross Train.
    Result: 1:00 on the Stepmill. Used the old model, did 198 floors. That's OK for me at this time of year.

    Saturday: MRHR 54, orthostatic HR 11. Legs feel good but well used. I need a day off. Back feels much better this morning.
    Workout: 2:00 Z2
    Result: Off. I'm saving it for tomorrow's group tandem ride.

    Week totals:
    Time: 8:10
    Calories: 3900
    TRIMPS: 637 - good bit of training in the bank

  15. #15
    Senior Member Smallguy's Avatar
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    great thread

    thanks for sharing

  16. #16
    Pedals, Paddles and Poles Daspydyr's Avatar
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    Sorry it took so long to get back. Thanks for the response. Looks like you have been making the best of your weather. Good luck and stay healthy.
    I think its disgusting and terrible how people treat Lance Armstrong, especially after winning 7 Tour de France Titles while on drugs!

    I can't even find my bike when I'm on drugs. -Willie N.

  17. #17
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 7. This week I overcooked it a bit and had to back off after midweek.

    Sunday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 10. Not really recovered, legs sore and stiff. Partied last night and gained a bunch of weight! Cold this morning, but rideable.
    Workout: 2:30 Z2 with a 0:30 Z3 interval
    Result: 3:41on a 47.4 mile tandem ride with about 2000' climbing. Rode hard.Average HR 129 with 0:50 in Z4 and 0:14 in Z5. Legs felt tired after the first 20, but caught fire on the last climb and really hammered. Was wasted at the end. That's the theory of base training: it allows you to go harder. Cold but dry. Great ride. TRIMPS was 440 - high for such a short ride.

    Monday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 8. Tired but fine. Legs sore and tired of course.
    Workout: Off
    Result: 1:40 XC skiing, half and half Z1 and Z2. Did good for a guy whose balance really bad a year ago, after the skull fracture. I sort of remembered how, but could only get one thing sort of right at a time. Supposed to be doing recovery, so I didn't even try to run. Plenty leg work for the first XC ski.

    Tuesday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 8. Legs feel OK, but I'm probably a little tired. Decent recovery from Sunday, though.
    Workout: 1:15 Z1 with 0:40 Fast Pedal Z2
    Result: Did the workout. Interval cadence 112, average speed 16.4. That's a little bit better, in spite of being tired from Sunday and Monday, and in spite of not doing this workout last week. Glad I did it.
    Then I did weights, 2 sets of 30 to exhaustion. Same weight both sets. Could hardly walk after.

    Wednesday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 14. Feel tired but OK.
    Workout: 1:30 Z2 with 0:30 Z3
    Result: Off. Had an avy class this evening. Plus, I feel I'm pushing it and not quite recovering.

    Thursday: MRHR 51, orthostatic HR 16. Legs still tired and sore. Better, but still not recovered.
    Workout: 2:30 Z2
    Result: 0:50 spin class. Had to wait for a train, so got there late. Worked hard, but legs hurt a bit and HR didn't come up easily.
    Weights: Did 30 reps of only 3 exercises. Back started to hurt and weights felt heavy. Think I overcooked it this week and I need to back off. Did 30 reps to exhaustion on the leg sled, so didn't totally wimp out.

    Friday: MRHR 51, orthostatic HR 16. Recovering, but slowly. Legs feel better, good night's sleep.
    Workout: 1:00 Cross Train Z2
    Result: Was going to work out, but suddenly felt bad, so didn't. Another day off won't hurt, probably help.

    Saturday: MRHR 53, orthostatic HR 9. Partied last night, didn't get enough sleep. But almost no back pain and legs feel good.
    Workout: 2:30 Z2
    Result: Off. Still resting for tomorrow's tandem ride.

    Week totals:
    Time: 8:27
    Calories: 4835
    TRIMPS: 795 - That's a lot. Recommended TRIMPS in the program would have been 745, so I did about right, just more intense and less time. I think the Tuesday weights was what fried me, on top of the Sunday ride and Monday ski.

  18. #18
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 8. Definitely overreached going into this week.

    Sunday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 13. Finally recovered, and just in time.
    Workout: 2:40 Z2 with 0:45 Z3
    Result: 0:36 on tandem ride, 6.2 miles and 620' climbing. 0:10 in Z4. Was raining and flooding like crazy, but we had a nice ride until we noticed our rear hub was loose. Turned around and went back. Too bad. My HR was not good however, so I wasn't really recovered. Just as well we cut it short. I was definitely overreached. I've been backing down from that edge.

    Monday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 11. Recovered from not much.
    Workout: Off.
    Result: Off

    Tuesday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 15. Legs are finally not sore this morning. Back doesn't hurt as much, either.
    Workout: 1:30 Z2 with 0:45 Fast Pedal
    Result: Did the workout on rollers. Went well. 16.1 mph and 110 cadence average for the interval. A little slower, but endurance was good. Was fastest the last 5 minutes, after my legs got suppled. Just what I'd expect: speed a little down because of overreaching and resting, but endurance good because it's the last thing to go.
    Weight: Only did 1 set of 30 and not to failure. I think I did too much weights last week and it hurt my cycling because I didn't recover. Fine balance. OTOH, I was stronger this week - went up quite a bit on squats, could have done more.

    Wednesday: MRHR 53, orthostatic HR 11. Legs feel well used, but OK. Back keeps getting better.
    Workout: 2:00 Z2 with 0:45 Z3
    Result: 0:50 with 1 X 15' Tempo interval at 70-80 cadence. Legs hurt after just one interval, so I quit. Probably just lactate from not doing the hard Sunday rides. Don't want to push it as hard as last week. My first hard roller workout of the winter. Back hurt bad after.

    Thursday: MRHR 50, othostatic HR 15. Legs and back feel good, good decision last night. Back has to hurt before it can get better. That's the Rule.
    Workout: 2:30 Z2
    Result: 1:00 spin class. Legs felt fine, meaning they hurt a little, HR seemed fine. Normal.
    Weights: 1 set of 30. Did all the exercises at my heaviest weights this winter. Felt hard but fine. Back only hurt a little. Didn't take ibuprofen- first time.

    Friday: MRHR 53, orthostatic HR 16. Training effect. Legs and back tired, but don't hurt. Much better.
    Workout: TT test
    Result: 0:30 Z2 on the rollers. Didn't do the TT. Need a day's rest for that, and no need. Worked hard and well all mid-week, so did the Z2 to add a little more base. Legs were OK.

    Saturday: MRHR 51, orthostatic HR 9. Recovered, though legs are still tired. Very good though to recover already from Thursday. Neither back nor legs hurt, just a little discomfort.
    Workout: 2:30 Z2
    Result: Off. Resting for the Sunday ride.

    Week totals:
    Time: 5:30
    Calories: 3300
    TRIMPS: 501 - Much lower because of the short Sunday ride. Still good training, though. Feeling stronger.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    ^^ Good stuff, thanks for keeping up the reports!

    How do you handle recover/rest? I'm sure age doesn't help, but I've seen all sorts of reports that muscle rollers, ice baths, supplements (i.e. sports legs during riding), etc are supposed to help.

  20. #20
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palesaint View Post
    ^^ Good stuff, thanks for keeping up the reports!

    How do you handle recover/rest? I'm sure age doesn't help, but I've seen all sorts of reports that muscle rollers, ice baths, supplements (i.e. sports legs during riding), etc are supposed to help.
    Age is definitely a problem. I really started noticing it when I hit 63, though it has always been a problem for me. I don't do anything very interesting during the ride. In fact on Sunday, except for coffee and a croissant at the mid-ride stop, I didn't eat or drink anything. Just for fun. On longer rides, I'll use HEED and Clif Bars and on long rides, a gump made of carb and protein, and take Endurolytes every hour or two.

    After every ride or workout, I drink a carb/protein recovery drink, then eat a good meal fairly soon. I do supplement with whey protein, 30g-60g/day, but I don't eat meat. I don't stretch, massage, ice bath, or any of that stuff. I'm sure it helps some people but I'm not them. Recovery is mostly hormonal and I don't think there's any help for that except rest. Muscular recovery is much quicker, so that isn't an issue for me, once I'm in fair condition. So it's mostly just getting the intensity and timing right.

  21. #21
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 9. This will be a week of "profit taking." A rest week. Hopefully I'll see some improved performace metrics this week. On Friday this week, I changed my HR notation to recording three numbers instead of my previous practice of resting and the steady-standing HR difference. First number is resting, second standing after 15", third standing after 120".

    Sunday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 11. Feel pretty good. Legs still a little sore, probably a good thing.
    Workout: 2:45 Z2
    Result: 2:52 on wonderful tandem ride. 45' Z4, 15' Z5, average HR 132. Sunny! Felt good. Legs were strong; did some hard hill sprints together and some strong hill accelerations.

    Monday: MRHR 52, orthostatic HR 8. Fair recovery. Feel good. Legs a little tired.
    Workout: 0:40 Cross Training
    Result: Off. Just didn't feel like going out for snowshoeing or skiing. Rest week, anyway.

    Tuesday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 11. Legs still feel tired from Sunday. HR good, though.
    Workout: Off
    Result: Off

    Wednesday: MRHR 49, orthostatic HR 12. Legs feel good. Back a little sore still, but better and better.
    Workout: 0:30 Z1 with 0:15 Fast Pedal Z2
    Result: Did the workout on rollers. Went well. 16.3 mph and 112 cadence average for the interval. A little faster. Again got faster as the interval went on, holding HR steady.

    Thursday: MRHR 50, orthostatic HR 13.
    Workouts: 0:15 Z1 with 0:10 Fast Pedal
    0:55 Z2 This is my first day with two aerobic workouts.
    Result: Did the Fast Pedal on rollers before breakfast. 16.8 mph and 112 cadence for the interval. HR always lower in the morning, so speed is faster.
    1:00 Spin Class. Worked hard. 0:15 in Z4, average HR 128. Felt good.
    Didn't do weights - rest week.

    Friday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 52, 72, 69. Feel pretty good. Legs not sore for a change, back good also.
    Workout: 0:40 Z2 Cross Training
    Result: 0:40 on the Stepmill. Was strong, felt good. Back hurt a little during, though. I was noticeably faster than a few weeks ago.

    Saturday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 51, 75, 64. Feeling good.
    Workout: 0:55 Z2
    Result: Off. Rested for the Sunday ride.

    Week totals:
    Time: 5:21
    Calories: 3666
    TRIMPS: 668 - Big number for a "rest week." Mostly the hard Sunday ride.

  22. #22
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    We had some doctor friends over for dinner last night and got to talking about my back pain. They said that one of the major problems with health care costs in America today is that too many people in the industry see "lower back pain" as a profit center. They said everyone gets lower back pain. The solution is to eat less and exercise more, but Americans don't want to hear that, and if they do hear, they don't listen, and even if they listen, they don't do it. Americans want pharmaceuticals, surgery, the quick fix. They said that over time there's no difference between groups which got one of the quick fixes and those which got nothing. Except the expense of course! The problem is that because of the way the American medical establishment is structured, there's no way to stop the stupidity.

    So I don't feel so bad about my back hurting, I guess. I think it's something I'm just going to have to live with. It is obvious to me that I can control it through exercise, but maybe it's not going to go away entirely. I admit to also wanting the quick fix to begin with, and I'm glad my doctor talked me out of pursuing that.

  23. #23
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 10. A bit of a screwed-up week. Cold weather and New Years. Hey, it's winter.

    Sunday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 50, 74, 63. Feel pretty good.
    Workout: 1:25 Z2
    Result: 1:53 on tandem ride. ~0:30 Z4 or above. Cold, rainy and windy, so we shortened the ride way up. Worked hard because it was so short.

    Monday:MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 49, 70, 57. Legs a little tired, back sore, but otherwise feel good. Good recovery from yesterday. This program has definitely improved my ability to recover.
    Workout: 0:40 Cross Training
    Result: Off. We got involved in house projects and didn't go anywhere.

    Tuesday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 48, 72, 64. Legs and back feel pretty good. Rested.
    Workout: 0:55 Z1 with 0:30 Fast Pedal Z2
    Result: Did the workout. Interval at 112 cadence, 16.3 mph. No faster, but felt better, more comfortable.
    Weights: 1 set of 30. Felt strong, comfortable. Definitely better.

    Wednesday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 53, 72, 64. Little training bump.
    Workout: 1:10 Z2 with 2 X 0:15 Z4
    Result: Off. Really cold today where my rollers are. Too cold. Took the evening off

    Thursday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 49, 71, 61. Recovered. Felt good this morning.
    Workout: 0:30 Z1 with 0:15 Fast Pedal
    1:25 Z2 with 2 X 0:15 Z4
    Result: Did the Fast Pedal before breakfast. Averaged 111 cadence and 16.2 mph. Slower, maybe because it was really cold on my rollers, but legs just felt stiff and unsupple. Don't know why.
    Did Spin Class. Went hard, legs hurt pretty good. ~20' of Z4, so that makes me only 10' short of Z4 for this hard week.
    Weights: 1 set of 30. Weights felt heavy. Couldn't quite complete 30 of some of the non-body weight lifts. Got really exhausted, probably from the hard spin class right before.

    Friday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 54, 70, 66. Another little bump. Feel pretty good, especially considering how beat up I felt last night.
    Workout: 0:55 Z2 Cross Training
    Result: New Years Eve. Just couldn't get away. Nada.

    Saturday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: Didn't bother taking them.
    Workout: 1:40 Z2
    Result: Rested for the Sunday ride.

    Week totals:
    Time: 5:13
    Calories: 3244
    TRIMPS: 566 - A little low but OK. Still moving the ball.
    Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 01-02-11 at 08:01 AM.

  24. #24
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 11. The program this week is too much, too early in the year. It's January! I will work easier than the program says and restart the program from scratch next week. Legs and back felt good this week.

    Sunday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 49, 71, 59. Feeling rested as well I should. Unfortunately, it's really cold and icy out, so had to cancel the sacred Sunday ride. We'll do snow play instead.
    Workout: 2:10 Z2 with 2 X 0:15/0:15 Z4
    Result: Went snowshoeing. 2:26 mostly zones 1 and 2. Had a great time.

    Monday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 51, 73, 60. Just a tiny bump. Legs are a little sore, but not bad.
    Workout: Cross train 0:40 Z2
    Result: Legs got sorer as the day wore on. Didn't bother with the workout.

    Tuesday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 49, 70, 59. Feel good, back isn't even sore.
    Workout: 1:25 Z1 with 0:40 Fast Pedal
    Result: Too cold again tonight out on the rollers. I'll try again tomorrow.

    Wednesday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 49, 68, 59. Getting pretty rested!
    Workout: 1:40 Z2 with 3 X 0:15 X 0:10 Z4
    Result: Had an avy class lecture this evening - no workout.

    Thursday: Didn't bother taking HRs.
    Workout: 1:50 Z2 with 2 X 0:15 X 0:15 Z4
    Result: 0:39 Spin Class. Caught behind a train, got there late. Only got a little Z4.
    Weights: 1 set of 30. Raised the weight on squats and also did 2 heavy sets on the sled. Legs were really hurting after.

    Friday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 51, 71, 60. Recovered. Legs are OK this morning. Back doesn't even hurt.
    Workout: 1:10 Z2
    Result: Didn't work out. Drove into the mountains for weekend avy class.

    Saturday: Didn't take MRHR. Stayed in lodge dorm.
    Workout: 2:20 Z2
    Result: 8:04 on skis, mostly avy class. Lots of standing around and shoveling. Only 1:02 Z2 and above. Legs felt good.

    Week totals:
    Time: 11:38
    Calories: 3325
    TRIMPS: 770 - High because of a lot of Z1 on skis and snowshoes.

  25. #25
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Week 12.
    Starting the program over. This way of doing it gives me two full base cycles, rather than one progression twice as long. I think this is less boring, more effective, and makes a nice break in the middle of this first macrocycle. My limiter is that I can't ride outside during the week until after Daylight Saving Time starts, so my first Build cycle can't start until then. It's too miserable to do a Build cycle on the rollers in the cold, and besides it's too early in my schedule.

    This was a good week. This winter, I've biked, skied alpine, cross country, back country, and snowshoed. Those stepmill workouts I did early in the first base cycle helped a lot. I'll do more of them in the base cycle I'm starting now.

    Sunday: Didn't take MRHR. Was taking an avy class on skis and stayed in lodge dorm.
    Workout: Off. First Sunday of first microcycle is always off.
    Result: 8:22 on skis; 1:28 Z2 and above. Did a skiing tour as part of avy class.

    Monday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 53, 74, 61. HR slightly elevated from 2 days on skis.
    Workout: Off
    Result: 2:02 on skis; 0:52 Z2 and above. Backcountry skiing with friends. Didn't need the day off.

    Tuesday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 49, 74, 63. Standing HR a little elevated. Back did not hurt at all this morning, first morning in a year.
    Workout: 0:30 Z1
    Result: 1:02 in spin class instead, because I felt like I could. Worked hard. HR was a little depressed from skiing, but I felt good. It was great to see I was recovered that quickly.
    Weights: 1 set of 30. Increased the weights on squats and leg sled. Everything else stayed the same, probably because I'm not working my upper body like I'm working my legs all week. Felt strong, though.

    Wednesday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 50, 69, 64. Feeling good.
    Workout: 0:45 Z3 Cross training
    Result: I have a colonoscopy in the morning, so no workout.

    Thursday: Didn't take HR, had fun at doctor's instead.
    Workout: 1:00 Z2
    Result: 1:07 Spin Class. Not bad after a colonoscopy. 0:12 in Z4
    Weights: Didn't lift, doctor's advice.

    Friday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 52, 76, 65. Bump from spin class.
    Workout: 0:30 Z2 Cross Training
    Result: Didn't workout. Dinner party. Life in the way of training.

    Saturday: MRHRS: resting, high standing, steady standing: 52, 74, 64. Drank wine last night.
    Workout: 1:00 Z2
    Result: Saving it for the tandem ride tomorrow.

    Week totals:
    Time: 13:02
    Calories: 4084
    TRIMPS: 917 - High again because of a lot of Z1 on skis and snowshoes.

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