ed073

You're confusing definintion with size. I've met Jan (at the Draai van der Kraai) when I was racing in Holland. He's close to the thinnest guy I've ever seen ...his legs were no bigger or smaller than anyone else's. Incredibly ripped and vascular, but that's all.

Whaddya mean when you say "Jan didn't get those legs from cycling?" What are you suggesting he does as well as riding 35 000km + a year? A gym program?? Don't make me laugh.....

Crunkologist

Several of us have the opinion that Jan's legs are big enough to indicate resistance training.

But my other point, about Lance: he squats. He lifts weights. Its not useless.

ed073

Not disputing the fact that Lance does a bit of gym work over the northern winter....but once the road seasons starts, it's strictly business. The very last thing he needs is extra muscle mass when it's not needed.
The hypertrophic effects of a couple of months weight training during his off season will be un-noticeable by the time he starts his European road season.

Crunkologist

I disagree. Then it would be pointless, and Lance doesn't train in a pointless manner. I think he does it in part so that the additional muscle mass gives him some more glycogen and protein to burn. If you're so certain of your opinions, evidence would be great.

Diggy18

Yeah, I guess you never get into a cadence less that 20rpms. You'd be going too slow to balance the bike.

H23

How do you know how "Lance", "Jan" and others train? (Are you on a first name basis with them?)

What is your evidence other than subjective speculation from deceptive pictures?

Furthermore, what does the practices of elite athletes have to do with recreational/fitness riders (few of whom are actually racers)?

Vitamin X

Training on the bike will suffice so they say.<<< Yeah that is hard part, easier said then done. Much easier. Are you willing to train harder than Armstrong?... And have the god given genetics?...

Anyone can generate this power?... Yeah!!! And lets hope they can generate a lifetimes dedication to the bike in all weathers, all year round, hopefully being lucky enough to have been given great genetics, have the heart, guts & mental strength to suceed, to be in alot more pain and endure more than the next guy.

There is no one on earth who can match Armstrongs power and there will be no one that is going to surpass him regardless of amount of training you do...

I remember Ric Stern saying anyone can apply the same amount of force/power to the pedals. He just said it like anyone could do it but in reality, Its a totally different story & until your on Armstrongs wheel on the side of a mountain or facing him in a time trial, you will never know. Totally different world.

So no, not everyone can produce the same amount of power. There are too many factors involved.

Vitamin X

Who says weight training/ or lifting heavy weights results in extra muscle mass?.... Not always the case.

FXjohn

I CAN'T BELIEVE HE ONLY LEG CURLS 70 POUNDS ??!!

Vitamin X

Errrmmmm, Errrrmmm, Well yes I am actually, lol.

A gym program?... Never... 1 hour a day, 4x week, Farrrrrrr to time consuming....

late

Two brief points....
1) I would like to know how Carmicheal trains Lance. Wouldn't you?
He has a book out. I wonder what it says on the subject. I also wonder how the other pros train. Anybody got a SOURCE for what they actually do?
2)I feel sorry for the guy whose thread we hijacked. You don't keep a rep for being helpful that way.

oldspark

Can't help but think you are taking some of Ric's statements out of context, plus what you are posting has nothing to do with what he is saying.

FXjohn

I have the book...what do you want to know?

Vitamin X

Didn't he once say it was possible for anyone to go out and produce the same power output as Armstrong. I think I remember telling him to come back into the real world. You maybe like, yeah that is possible but then again your not as tough or willing to train as hard as Armstrong so it doesn't really matter.

As for the book, I believe there keeping alot of there training idea's under wraps and the side training that supplements cycling.

late

John,
thanks, I was wondering what he might have to say concerning this discussion; and any tips that might help a non-racer.

FXjohn

I'll go over it tonight and reply back, specifically on weight training, or non-cycling training, right?

Rich G

I could'nt agree more.

As a one time gym owner and certified trainer, I can say that I've seen some impressive growth in
"hard gainer" types. I count myself as one of them. I had a good squat for my body weight (3x315@165)
and my legs did not look like much. Fast fwd a few years with 200-300 mi. weeks interspersed(sp) with heavy lifting. My legs were never bigger or stronger....

teamawe

Charmicheal said that most men could get on a bike and produce the same watt-output as the pro's, however they dont have the cardio etc systems to sustain that output for long and THAT was what seperated the pro's from us mortals.

oldspark

This is also what Ric Stern has stated and at first I was very skeptical but the more I thought about it the more I could see his point. Very interesting subject and has made for some good posts.

FXjohn

Got into it a little last night I'm just starting the book.
He seems to approach training similar to a body builder who cycles between lifting and eating, and then
cutting up.
You have a season where you aren't riding as much, (winter)
where you start doing more weights and cross training.
The weight training spelled out is very basic and rudimentary.
It says Lance works out with just the bar at first LOL
His weights he lifts in the book sure aren't anything special, but he's all
about winning long distance bike races.
What about the rest of us who are basically training all year round?
Hopefully we can slowly gain in weights AND cycling.

ifixfeet

Can I ask a simple question? Does weight training: squats , leg press etc help with biking abilities such as hill climbing, accelerating, or does this hurt it?

Whew I just asked it.

ed073

A weight-training program designed for muscle hypertrophy will have negative results for any type of enudrance cycling performance. If, by accelerating, you are referring to specialised track sprinting events (duration 1-2 mins max), then a weights program will be very beneficial.

When a muscle hypertrophies, oxygen uptake is not as efficient, leading to lower endurance cycling performance. Also the added mass will lead to earlier fatigue due to the higher amount of energy needed to propel it.

rich007

I can just partially answer your question: From what I know, your core strength is extremely important in climbing, esp. out-of-saddle (even sprinting for that matter)... Doing crunches, sit-ups, or any other abs exercise might help to link your strong lengs with your upper body and allow you generate more power...

Eman

Oh boy. Deep breath in and out....If you truly need training advice, talk to a trainer. Just be careful and perhaps read my comment in the post below, "Weight Lifting...off season". To follow the majority of the information here would not be advised. For no other reason, it is a message board and even someone competent cannot give specific enough advice to truly make a difference.

Dane

If cycling simply builds definition by eliminating fat around the muscles...how do you explain the differences between the legs of runners and the legs of cyclists? They are both activities which involve many repititions with a relatively low muscle force, yet why are cyclists legs usually more muscular than those of runners? Obviously the muscles are used differently because its a different motion, but since both activities supposedly build no muscle mass...why do both activities promote a different kind of muscle development? What about speed-skaters...have you ever seen their thighs? I guess since they are performing a high repition exercise that they shouldn't have that muscle mass either...but they do.

I realize that the study involving the different groups of people training with different weights and repititions is valid...but why is it that real life observations of people performing different activities seem to contradict this study?