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  1. #1
    Senior Member sparks_219's Avatar
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    How do you recover from being anaerobic??

    Next year will be my first season of racing. I have got into much better shape from doing the spinning classes and consistently working out. I have a riding buddy that used to race, and he would always leave me behind by miles. Now, I can hang onto him most of the time. However, over a long ride, he can still leave me miles behind.

    Anyways, my questions are, during a race

    1) How do you know if you're working at the aerobic level, and when are you making the transion into anaerobic level?

    I realize it will take forever to recover from going anaerobic, but what is the best techique to recover during a race?

    2) How do I know I am going at a good pace?

    I can probalby find the answers to these questions after a few races, but I would like some insights of the expert on here.

    Thanks

    Ming

  2. #2
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    First, if your buddy is dropping you in long rides, your aerobic base is low, your anaerobic threshold is low, and your VO2 max is probably low also. You would do yourself some good to spend time base building, then doing endurance and tempo training rides once your base has improved.

    If you're out of breath, that means you're anaerobic. A great way to figure out if you're aerobic or anaerobic is to get a heart rate monitor and have someone test you for your heart rate ranges. That makes it easy. Way easy.

    It shouldn't take more than a minute or so to recover from an anaerobic effort. A good indication of fitness level is how fast one can recover. If it's taking you that long to recover, then you totally need to take it aerobic for a looooooooong time and build that aerobic base!

    Recovering during a race is totally a different monster. I wouldn't recommend you doing races right now, since your base is so low you're not able to maintain a race pace.

    You know you're going at a good pace when you're winning.

    Your best advice is to get a coach or trainer. At the very least, get a book or two on the subject of training. Your buddy is NOT a coach, hence his inability to explain the principles of training so you can excel in cycling. You have some options- if you go to borders.com, start by getting "The Heart Rate Monitor Book" by Sally Edwards. It's basic, and goes through the principle of using a heart rate monitor for training. From there, get Joel Friel's "Cyclist Training Bible". He gives great insight into what it takes to train for racing. Finally, if you're looking for rides to do for structured training, get the book by Sally Edwards and Sally Reed called "The Heart Rate Monitor Book for Outdoor and Indoor Cyclists". Those are good places to start if you can't afford a coach or personal trainer.

    Start now. If you do, you should be ready to do some races by mid-spring.

    Don't ask your buddy for advice. He might be fast, but he's not helping you right now. He'll be good for you when it comes time to do those tempo training rides.

    Good luck!

    Koffee

  3. #3
    Senior Member sparks_219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    First, if your buddy is dropping you in long rides, your aerobic base is low, your anaerobic threshold is low, and your VO2 max is probably low also. You would do yourself some good to spend time base building, then doing endurance and tempo training rides once your base has improved.
    This guy isn't an average Joe He used to race road bikes competitively and he placed 4th in Canada during some national races when he was 15 or 16 if I remember correctly. I mean he went down to Florida to train for most of the year when he was racing, so that and his superior genes probably explain his extraordinary speed. In our riding group, no one could really keep up with him on a bike. Even one person who can run 10K in 40 minutes (not saying he's really fast, but just to illustrate that he is very fit).

    By nature, I am not born as an extremely fit person. So my bad genes explains my probaby low VO2 max. I will try to get my VO2 max tested at the university I am attending.

    I spent the past year building my base by riding, running and doing quite a bit of cardio in the gym, and I have made some great improvements. I am going to enter a few races next year and see how much more work I still have to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    If you're out of breath, that means you're anaerobic. A great way to figure out if you're aerobic or anaerobic is to get a heart rate monitor and have someone test you for your heart rate ranges. That makes it easy. Way easy.
    Opps...didn't see the sticky

    However, I quickly measure my max threshold on a stairmaster that did not have a built in heart rate monitor. It said 13.9 mets. I do not know how mets correlate to VO2 max. So how does 13.9 mets stand on the scale?


    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    It shouldn't take more than a minute or so to recover from an anaerobic effort. A good indication of fitness level is how fast one can recover. If it's taking you that long to recover, then you totally need to take it aerobic for a looooooooong time and build that aerobic base!
    Since I haven't done a race and the closet comparsion I have are the spinning classes. I generally do not get very out of breath during the hard climbing, or max rate spinning songs. That is after I push myself almost as hard as I could. Again, I haven't really paid attention to how long I take to recover after climbing a hard hill. I will start do so from now on.


    [QUOTE=koffee brown]
    Recovering during a race is totally a different monster. I wouldn't recommend you doing races right now, since your base is so low you're not able to maintain a race pace.
    [/QUOTE[

    I will start racing next season. I will not be racing to win, but I will do a few races to determine how far I am from my personal goals. I doubt I will ever win a race because of my genes, but I am only racing for my personal satisifaction and improvement.


    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    You know you're going at a good pace when you're winning.
    I do sincerely hope that happen some day. As long as I am not in a class by myself


    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Your best advice is to get a coach or trainer. At the very least, get a book or two on the subject of training. Your buddy is NOT a coach, hence his inability to explain the principles of training so you can excel in cycling. You have some options- if you go to borders.com, start by getting "The Heart Rate Monitor Book" by Sally Edwards. It's basic, and goes through the principle of using a heart rate monitor for training. From there, get Joel Friel's "Cyclist Training Bible". He gives great insight into what it takes to train for racing. Finally, if you're looking for rides to do for structured training, get the book by Sally Edwards and Sally Reed called "The Heart Rate Monitor Book for Outdoor and Indoor Cyclists". Those are good places to start if you can't afford a coach or personal trainer.
    As aforemtioned, I am a poor student I spent all my money on buying a new race bike for next season (Rocky Mountain Instinct). So I do not have the luxury of paying for a coach or a personal trainer. You're right about my buddy not being able to explain the principles of cycling; because all he gave me was, "we did a lot of riding and interval training".

    I will look into that book, and also try to speak to some sports therpists, and researchers in the Kinesology department at my university. Most of the personal trainers at my GYM are kinesology students, and I doubt they will know very much about cycling training anyways. Hopefully I will gather enough useful information to at least improve myself a little bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Start now. If you do, you should be ready to do some races by mid-spring.

    Don't ask your buddy for advice. He might be fast, but he's not helping you right now. He'll be good for you when it comes time to do those tempo training rides.

    Good luck!

    Koffee
    Thanks for your advice and explaination! I really appreciate it. I will try to make up a training routine (besides my currnet work out routine, which focuses mostly on core training) that is geared towards cycling.

    I can probably stand to loose a little bit of muscle mass as well. I'm about 5'10", 188lbs, around 12-13% body fat.

    Cheers

    Ming
    Last edited by sparks_219; 11-30-04 at 10:48 PM.

  4. #4
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    One more bit of advice- if you are looking to build up endurance for your cycling, you should be doing the majority of your work on CYCLING, not the stairmaster, not running, and not kickboxing.... just cycling. You need to build up your endurance for the muscles that are specific to cycling. And to add on to that, you should not be comparing heart rates from stairmaster to cycling. Cycling will have different heart rate ranges for you than running or using a stairmaster. So while you're visiting your kinisiology department, ask them if they can do a performance fitness test for you while CYCLING. Then you'll have a good idea of what your true heart rate ranges are for cycling. From there, you can accurately train your weaknesses.

    Regardless of how good your friend is, if he is not a COACH, there really isn't much advice he can give to you. I wouldn't bother asking for much, especially seeing his advice. It is clear he has no foundation in training, since he couldn't explain to you what they did at the camp he attended. It's no big deal... if he's a good cyclist, there's no need for him to have a coach's knowledge of cycling. He just needs a good camp and some coaches that can guide him.

    Now, if you spent a lot of time training base as you claimed you had, then you shouldn't get out of breath when you're doing the long rides, and you shouldn't have any problem with recovery. As it stands now, I do think that either you are not training base and you think you are, or you are training at too high a heart rate or too low a heart rate. This is why it is so important to find your heart rate ranges- training at heart rate ranges that are off can throw off your results. You may claim to have a low VO2 max, but maybe you just aren't able to train it properly because you don't have the correct heart rate ranges to train with! Don't sell yourself short... you could be just as strong as your buddy with some good training.

    Dude, you're about as skinny as you can get. Focus on the strength training and the cardiovascular, make sure you're eating right, get some accurate testing done for performance, train hard, and report back in June.

    Koffee

  5. #5
    Senior Member sparks_219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    One more bit of advice- if you are looking to build up endurance for your cycling, you should be doing the majority of your work on CYCLING, not the stairmaster, not running, and not kickboxing.... just cycling. You need to build up your endurance for the muscles that are specific to cycling. And to add on to that, you should not be comparing heart rates from stairmaster to cycling. Cycling will have different heart rate ranges for you than running or using a stairmaster. So while you're visiting your kinisiology department, ask them if they can do a performance fitness test for you while CYCLING. Then you'll have a good idea of what your true heart rate ranges are for cycling. From there, you can accurately train your weaknesses.
    I'm going to ask for a heart rate monitor for christmas Then I can go from there. I spoke to a personal trainer for half an hour today, and she gave me some good advice, along with the name of an excellent coach at my universisty

    ::snip::


    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Now, if you spent a lot of time training base as you claimed you had, then you shouldn't get out of breath when you're doing the long rides, and you shouldn't have any problem with recovery. As it stands now, I do think that either you are not training base and you think you are, or you are training at too high a heart rate or too low a heart rate. This is why it is so important to find your heart rate ranges- training at heart rate ranges that are off can throw off your results. You may claim to have a low VO2 max, but maybe you just aren't able to train it properly because you don't have the correct heart rate ranges to train with! Don't sell yourself short... you could be just as strong as your buddy with some good training.
    I love those all day epic rides. I can easily go for 4 hours at a pretty hard pace and not to be really out of breath. Even when I run, the first 10 minutes or so, which is my warm up, I am barely breathing hard.

    From the litlte research I did last night, I think I should be training around 70-80% HR. Things will be easier once I get that heart monitor.

    Hopefully, I will be at the same level as my friend after this winter. After exams are over, I can get back into traning. It will be a lot of work, but I am quite certain that I will enjoy the journey to be ultra fit

    Quote Originally Posted by koffee brown
    Dude, you're about as skinny as you can get. Focus on the strength training and the cardiovascular, make sure you're eating right, get some accurate testing done for performance, train hard, and report back in June.

    Koffee
    That's definitely good to hear. I've hit a plateau in terms of my weight/body fat since early July. I am still going to try to get a little bit leaner (6 pack), but I don't think my body type will allow me to decrease my body fat much further without some drastic changes in my life style (counting calories, only eat tofu).

    I don't count calories as of now, and I am very conscious of my diet. I have been working on that since late last year

    I will dedicate my first race win to you, and the friendly people on this forum. How does that sound?

    Sincerely

    Ming

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks_219
    I will dedicate my first race win to you, and the friendly people on this forum. How does that sound?

    Sincerely

    Ming

    Forget about the other people! That's crap! Dedicate it only to me!



    Koffee

  7. #7
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    How do you recover from being anaerobic??
    Anaerobics Anonymous?
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  8. #8
    Senior Member trirmk's Avatar
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    1) How do you know if you're working at the aerobic level, and when are you making the transion into anaerobic level?
    A Heart Rate Monitor can tell you if you're at an aerobic level usually, because you will know your HR ranges and those will be defined based on your performance in a cycling test. Another way to tell if you're at an aerobic level is to not feel lactic acid building up. Your body is always producing and clearing lactate, but once it begins to accumulate to a level at which your body cannot remove it quickly enough, it 'backs up' and that's what causes the burning sensation. Also, that's the transition from aerobic to anaerobic typically.

    I realize it will take forever to recover from going anaerobic, but what is the best techique to recover during a race?
    You'll find this out as you race, but usually you can recover by ducking into the paceline or pack and just sitting on someone's wheel. Usually when you're out front, you'll be working (i.e. not recovering), so anytime you're drafting off someone else, you have the chance to recover. As you improve, you'll see that it won't take as long (or forever) to recover from going anaerobic, but that will come from improvements in your cardiorespiratory fitness through proper training.

    2) How do I know I am going at a good pace?
    You're in 1st place.

    I can probalby find the answers to these questions after a few races, but I would like some insights of the expert on here.
    You'll learn most of this stuff easily after racing a few times because you learn how to pace yourself and learn a lot about strategy. Conserving energy is very important and you'll quickly figure that out after your first race if you get dropped or end up working harder than you planned. Good luck!

  9. #9
    Senior Member whitemax's Avatar
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    Skinny as he can get...for a cyclist? At 5.10 and 188lbs. he could definitely get it down some more with no problems.

  10. #10
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    It depends on his BODYFAT composition. If he's all muscle, what you're proposing is that he basically starve himself so that his body uses muscle breakdown to provide energy for daily activities? That's not going to happen.

    12- 13% is fine. What, is he going for professional status? Will he ride for a professional team in Europe? What's the goal?

    Seriously, you have to be realistic when setting a target goal in terms of weight and cardiovascular for the individual. It's good he's going to race, and there's not a problem with where his bodyfat percentage is for the level of racing he plans on doing, but I wouldn't recommend any further loss of fat. Normally, a male athlete will have about 5- 12% bodyfat, and he is well within the acceptable range for bodyfat for a male. But just because he's on the high end of bodyfat recommendations for males, doesn't mean he has to starve himself down to 5%. He is fine, and I don't see any reason for him to starve himself down to unrealistic levels.

    Simply looking at numbers and making loose translations has no benefit to anyone in training. There is more to the picture for someone than deducing that because you're 5' 10" and 188 that he's overweight.

    Koffee

  11. #11
    Senior Member whitemax's Avatar
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    I never said he was overweight and did not mean to imply that he is. However, his height and weight make it hard to believe that he is at the body fat percentage that he stated. I am 6.1 and weighed 195 at the start of last season and am now at 172 with fairly big bone structure; I am thin at this weight but by no means "skinny". I disagree with his assessement that he may need to lose muscle mass as this would be counterproductive to what he is trying to achieve. Losing weight does not mean losing power but losing muscle at some point will. To be at 5.10 and at 188 with no room to lose weight seems a bit odd to me. Please don't misunderstand me, I know that you are taking him by faith at his statement of body fat percentage. Perhaps he was cut out of the same material Magnus was.

  12. #12
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Anaerobics Anonymous?
    Beat me to it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
    Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.

  13. #13
    Senior Member sparks_219's Avatar
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    I wouldn't really consider myself over weight and I definitely would not consider myself skinny either.

    My goal towards racing is only as a hobby really. As a full time engineering student, I find it very hard to train seriously. As of now, I visit the gym about 4x a week, and spend around 2 hours each session. My work out currently is still designed towards to maintain my muscle mass, while attempting to lower my body fat. As of now, I have no intentions to drop my weight below 180lbs. I find it fairly difficult to even maintain my weigh at 188 pounds. Right now, I barely eat anything bad, and I exclude all types of soda, juice, and all fried food from my diet. Anymore effort towards loosing weight by diet will require counting calories and/or decrease my intake portion, neither of which I am prepared to do. At the same time, I am very strapped for time, so more training isn't a realistic option

    My body type is fairly chubby before, and I weighed about 190 pounds two years ago when I realized I needed to loose some weight. I measured my body fat with a hand held body fat calculator last week, and it said 13%. As we all probably know, those devices can be off by up to 5%. Since I always get my body fat measured with the same device, any progress I make will still show up

    As I have posted before in a different weight loss thread, here is a picture of me at 190 pounds, and a picture of me now:

    Before



    Now

  14. #14
    Senior Member Chongo's Avatar
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    Lots of base miles in the off season (easier said than done if you work 9-5), then intervals as the season approaches.

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