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Old 12-07-04, 11:03 PM   #1
rolytav
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How to keep up...

I have been riding for about 6 months now.Mainly I have just been trying to get some fitness happeneing with cadence 90+ and Hr in Medium Range. I have always been training alone and so today i decided to try a group ride. Long story short, the first 20 mins was a cruise and i new at a certain point on the route it turned into a race so i was waiting for it. Next thing, bang, 30 plus riders gone from my sight within a minute!!!! I was travelling about 35kph consistently not fast i know but how do i get faster? I guess its just a case of riding more to get fitness to keep HR down at higher speeds...

any help appreciated
RT
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Old 12-07-04, 11:31 PM   #2
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Well, actually it's the initial surge more than anything. The real key is to keep up from the very beginning of the attack. If it was truly within a minute, they took off in sort of "attack" form. Eventually the pace evens out, and they settle down, just at a higher speed than before. Once you get dropped it's very difficult to catch back up. The key is to suck it up in the beginning, choke your heart back down as it's trying to crawl up your throat. You'll learn to recognize when it's about to happen. It's usually initiated by one or two people in the group. Everybody knows it's going to happen, eventually. It's not like they plan "at mile marker such and such we pick it up a notch". Just at some point somebody attacks and everybody follows.
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Old 12-07-04, 11:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolytav
I have been riding for about 6 months now.Mainly I have just been trying to get some fitness happeneing with cadence 90+ and Hr in Medium Range. I have always been training alone and so today i decided to try a group ride. Long story short, the first 20 mins was a cruise and i new at a certain point on the route it turned into a race so i was waiting for it. Next thing, bang, 30 plus riders gone from my sight within a minute!!!! I was travelling about 35kph consistently not fast i know but how do i get faster? I guess its just a case of riding more to get fitness to keep HR down at higher speeds...

any help appreciated
RT
It's not a case of simply riding more. If you want to get faster, you've got to ride faster! Group rides are a great way to ride fast. Try to find a group of riders that you can barely stay with, not one that leaves you in the dust.
Tom
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Old 12-08-04, 12:09 AM   #4
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Ya gotta learn to suck wheel...
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Old 12-08-04, 12:12 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JavaMan
It's not a case of simply riding more. If you want to get faster, you've got to ride faster! Group rides are a great way to ride fast. Try to find a group of riders that you can barely stay with, not one that leaves you in the dust.
Tom
THis is my formula for kicking ass.......

1. Bolt on some long crank arms (don't skimp here....LOL)

2. Bolt on some wide handlebars.....so you can control your frame when you are putting the torque down with those long crank arms. Wide bars help when you are "Big Ringing" a steep mountain.

3. Make sure stem is right length. I like long stems...for some reason I go faster if I have more weight over front wheel.

4. Make sure your fore-aft seat position isn't screwed up. Screwed up fore-aft position will kill your power! Sometimes you need your seat higher without it going back further. Consider seatpost with straight clamp (no setback) or slight forward design (if you like high seatpost..... forward design will keep seat position under control when you are extending the post)

5. Get the right cassette.....doesn't have to be 11-23!

6. Most importantly.....train with intensity. Leisurely bike trips at 15 mph aren't going to do anything for you. Go after hills with a vengenance.

7. Oh yeah.....lift weights. It's good for you.

8. Join the Top Gun School of Cycling......

Last edited by 53-11 alltheway; 12-08-04 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 12-08-04, 09:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolytav
I have been riding for about 6 months now.Mainly I have just been trying to get some fitness happeneing with cadence 90+ and Hr in Medium Range. I have always been training alone and so today i decided to try a group ride. Long story short, the first 20 mins was a cruise and i new at a certain point on the route it turned into a race so i was waiting for it. Next thing, bang, 30 plus riders gone from my sight within a minute!!!! I was travelling about 35kph consistently not fast i know but how do i get faster? I guess its just a case of riding more to get fitness to keep HR down at higher speeds...

any help appreciated
RT
quit measuring speed in KPH. 35 sounds fast but it is only 21 MPH. need to be able to jump and hold 28-30 MPH to hang on to faster groups. Get the KPH out of your head!
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Old 12-08-04, 11:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53-11 alltheway
THis is my formula for kicking ass.......

1. Bolt on some long crank arms (don't skimp here....LOL)

2. Bolt on some wide handlebars.....so you can control your frame when you are putting the torque down with those long crank arms. Wide bars help when you are "Big Ringing" a steep mountain.

3. Make sure stem is right length. I like long stems...for some reason I go faster if I have more weight over front wheel.

4. Make sure your fore-aft seat position isn't screwed up. Screwed up fore-aft position will kill your power! Sometimes you need your seat higher without it going back further. Consider seatpost with straight clamp (no setback) or slight forward design (if you like high seatpost..... forward design will keep seat position under control when you are extending the post)

5. Get the right cassette.....doesn't have to be 11-23!

6. Most importantly.....train with intensity. Leisurely bike trips at 15 mph aren't going to do anything for you. Go after hills with a vengenance.

7. Oh yeah.....lift weights. It's good for you.

8. Join the Top Gun School of Cycling......
53 - 11 alltheway,

You forgot to tell him about waxing your spokes so they have less aero drag

Actually, I'm being presumptive, are your wheels spoked or do you ride a disc. Enlighten us (and continue the bravado!).
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Old 12-08-04, 12:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bikerski
quit measuring speed in KPH. 35 sounds fast but it is only 21 MPH. need to be able to jump and hold 28-30 MPH to hang on to faster groups. Get the KPH out of your head!
As I live in a country that has moved on to the metric system I am stuck with KPH....
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Old 12-08-04, 12:52 PM   #9
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So basically you don't live in the US?

LOL. It seems like the key is that you keep to anticipate and be ready for when they speed up. You need to be in a gear that you can easily accelerate in. In this situation I would gear it so my cadence was around 100 at the 20 or so mph you were cruising at. Then, when you see someone jump, immediately start pedaling harder. You'll spin the gear out pretty soon, but you should be able to keep up and then shift (whereas if you were just mashing and they took off you are going to have a lot longer time to accel.). Try to stick on someone's wheel, out of the wind. After a few minutes the speed will die down a bit and the pace will settle into a nice solid pace, probably about 25-28mph on flat ground. It may seem like a lot, but remember most of the time you are out of the wind. You don't need to be able to sustain this speed solo in order to stay with the pack. I'd have a very hard time maintaing 28mph (the speed of some of my team's group rides) by myself for anything over probably 1/2 the distance we ride at that speed for.
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Old 12-08-04, 12:58 PM   #10
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quit measuring speed in KPH. 35 sounds fast but it is only 21 MPH. need to be able to jump and hold 28-30 MPH to hang on to faster groups. Get the KPH out of your head!
Only 1 country I know uses that outdated mph ????
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Old 12-08-04, 01:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ajst2duk
Only 1 country I know uses that outdated mph ????
I believe the UK still does. Which is messed-up because the petrol is sold in litres! One foot on either side of the tracks, never making a decision - that's the UK for you!
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Old 12-08-04, 01:09 PM   #12
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One thing is you may just not be fast enough right now. Just keep going out and try to hang on a little longer next time. Don't let it discourage you. When I started road riding I did it with the fastest group ride around. I got dropped, and dropped, and dropped, and dropped some more. Then, one day, I could keep up. You will get faster by riding with people that are better than you.

Like the Fixer said, learn the fine art of wheel sucking. You use up to 30% less energy in the draft. You cannot afford to push your own wind until you get faster. If you break the draft, you are gone.

Get out there and take your lumps. It will pay off.
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Old 12-08-04, 01:49 PM   #13
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shave your legs
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Old 12-08-04, 01:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by MacMan
I believe the UK still does. Which is messed-up because the petrol is sold in litres! One foot on either side of the tracks, never making a decision - that's the UK for you!
Yep, miles are just about the only non-metric unit still in general use. Pints of beer got a reprieve for a few years, iirc, but even that will eventually be changing to metric.
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Old 12-08-04, 02:15 PM   #15
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seriously, the trick is understanding that you must give everything you got for a short time in an effort to hang and catch up with the pac. Once you get caught up you instantly reduce effort by 30%. In racing it is important you know your coarse and anticipate the moves so you can be near the front when the acceleration happens. Otherwise it is easy to accordianed off the back. You were smart not to lead the pac at the start of the ride, as you understand the dynamics of the group you will better understand at what point in the ride they get frisky. Be near the front at this point from now on.
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Old 12-08-04, 02:27 PM   #16
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a good way to build up is to do interval training. pedal for 135- 145 rpm for 30 seconds, then pedal for 80 - 90rpm for 90 seconds, then pedal for 135 - 145rpm for 30 seconds, then 80 - 90, and so on. you'll be able to work on that quick burst of energy you need when the group decides to "attack" and also you'll increase your endurance and give you a great cardio work out, which is what you need, because whats the point of going fast, when you can only go fast for 10 - 15 yards?
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Old 12-08-04, 03:04 PM   #17
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First thing is that the guys that left you are are most likely way fitter than you. Riding for 6 months and expecting to stick with seasoned riders is unrealistic. Second, as others have said, there is an anarobic side to cycling that must be trained. If you ride your bike at a constant effort all the time you will not be able to respond to attacks. Once you have established a decent base of conditioning and assuming you are close to racing weight, you need to work some intervals into your workout. This can be done on group rides or by yourself.

With a group ride that you know has riders stronger than you, try save your energy on the way out by drafting. Try to follow the attackes but don't launch any. See if you can stick. After a few weeks if have been able to stick with the leaders, then on the way back in (so you won't get dropped too far from home) try attacking the ride yourself. The stronger guys will most likely pummel the crap out of you..but will also respect you for getting off their wheel for once...

If you keep at it you will get faster.
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Old 12-08-04, 03:23 PM   #18
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If you ahve a trainer, get eithor spinervals, I have never tried one but many have said they work. Or just get on the trainer and haul major ass for a certain amount of time , but you HAVE to sustain it you cant pick up speed then drop then pick up speed again. then slow down but dont stop keep at a pace that is not too fast but not slow eithor. and just repeat that. Of course you probably, unless you dnot ride outside in the winter, (which i think you do) just kind of duplicate that excpet on real rodes.

Hope that helps at all, and if im wrong someone who is absolutely sure im wrong tell me.
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Old 12-08-04, 03:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerski
quit measuring speed in KPH. 35 sounds fast but it is only 21 MPH. need to be able to jump and hold 28-30 MPH to hang on to faster groups. Get the KPH out of your head!
The rest of the world speaks in metric, ESPECIALLY any pro-riders who race in Europe. Talking in a different unit of measurement does not make a rider faster. Training, experience, knowledge, effort, persistence make a rider faster.
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Old 12-08-04, 03:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMan
I believe the UK still does. Which is messed-up because the petrol is sold in litres! One foot on either side of the tracks, never making a decision - that's the UK for you!
According to a survey taken many years ago, the only other countries that have not officially adopted the metric system are Liberia (in western Africa) and Myanmar (also known as Burma, in Southeast Asia).
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Old 12-08-04, 03:36 PM   #21
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Quit riding your mountain bike on group rides

I don't have much to seriously add besides to reinforce the encouragement to never lose the wheel in front of you. You lose the group and it's almost impossible to catch them.

One thing, if the group always has a regroup/rest stop, find out where it is. A lot of times you can head for that spot and catch the group there. There is a group in this area that always rests at the same convenience store every Saturday. I met them there a bunch of times this past year.
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Old 12-08-04, 04:00 PM   #22
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I believe the UK still does. Which is messed-up because the petrol is sold in litres! One foot on either side of the tracks, never making a decision - that's the UK for you!
Lol...that is funny.
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Old 12-08-04, 04:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JavaMan
It's not a case of simply riding more. If you want to get faster, you've got to ride faster! Group rides are a great way to ride fast. Try to find a group of riders that you can barely stay with, not one that leaves you in the dust.
Tom
hahaha

i am still amazed how little most people on this forum know.
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Old 12-08-04, 05:25 PM   #24
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have you tried doping? all the cool bikers are doing it.
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Old 12-08-04, 06:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerski
quit measuring speed in KPH. 35 sounds fast but it is only 21 MPH. need to be able to jump and hold 28-30 MPH to hang on to faster groups. Get the KPH out of your head!
35 only sounds fast if you weren't raised on the metric system. 35 kph sounds to him exactly like 21 mph sounds to you. Why? Because it's the exact same speed. Stop thinking the world is measured in imperial (or "american") units.
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