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Old 12-15-04, 11:25 PM   #1
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Running hurts. :(

Yeah, I took up running. I'm doing less riding because I'm trying to figure out how to use the rollers, and I'm just not getting the cardio workout anymore. So I ran today... like 35 minutes in the morning, then another 35 minutes in the afternoon. Nothing big, not a fast speed at all. I barely went over 4 miles per hour. But damn... my body feels like I got hit by a mac truck, and I am not liking it. But I need the cardio, and I plan to cross train to shake things up and to work on some cardiovascular goals, so I'm going to keep it up for now. No more than 35 minutes at a time right now, and no more than twice a day, and no more than 4 miles per hour either. That's about as much as I can stand.

Whooooooo... gonna jump in a hot bath now and soak my sore muscles and do some stretching in the tub. Tomorrow, I get to start the vicious cycle all over again. 1- 2 sessions of running, as much time as I can take on the rollers before I get tired of falling off of them, and some cycling tomorrow night to the northside and back.

Running makes me really appreciate riding!

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Old 12-16-04, 12:40 AM   #2
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I'm coming the other way -- I'm a runner just discovering cycling. Cycling hurts! There's constant quadricep pressure, glutes are worked differently, and the posture is taking some getting used to. Riding makes me appreciate running! But I get to see more of the scenery, and it gets me to campus.

Also, congrats on the discipline to pace yourself. It's especially easy for cyclists to want to shoot out fast, especially if they run the route they cycle. It's really motivating to see the seconds come off your mile times the first few weeks, and that only happens by staying healthy and doing the distance.

Wish you were in Austin starting in January; I'd get you to take Triathlon Swim with me for Spring semester and we could share the SAME misery.
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Old 12-16-04, 12:50 AM   #3
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Iran for about 7 years..I refused to give into joint pain..Knees..Until I had to...Eventually, my construction..By now, I would be crippled. Needed knee braces for about 3 months, until I could walk half way normal...Other than my knees and pronation problem, the rest of my body took running just fine..
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Old 12-16-04, 07:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koffee brown
Yeah, I took up running. I'm doing less riding because I'm trying to figure out how to use the rollers, and I'm just not getting the cardio workout anymore. So I ran today... like 35 minutes in the morning, then another 35 minutes in the afternoon. Nothing big, not a fast speed at all. I barely went over 4 miles per hour. But damn... my body feels like I got hit by a mac truck, and I am not liking it. But I need the cardio, and I plan to cross train to shake things up and to work on some cardiovascular goals, so I'm going to keep it up for now. No more than 35 minutes at a time right now, and no more than twice a day, and no more than 4 miles per hour either. That's about as much as I can stand.

Whooooooo... gonna jump in a hot bath now and soak my sore muscles and do some stretching in the tub. Tomorrow, I get to start the vicious cycle all over again. 1- 2 sessions of running, as much time as I can take on the rollers before I get tired of falling off of them, and some cycling tomorrow night to the northside and back.

Running makes me really appreciate riding!

Koffee
two-a-days eh? you might wanna take it easy there, koffee. you need to work into that stuff. I was running for two years at 50+ miles per week before my coach suggested two a days...
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Old 12-16-04, 08:16 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by cyclezealot
Iran for about 7 years..I refused to give into joint pain..Knees..Until I had to...Eventually, my construction..By now, I would be crippled. Needed knee braces for about 3 months, until I could walk half way normal...Other than my knees and pronation problem, the rest of my body took running just fine..
Similar: I ran for about 10 years until I was 25 (only 3 miles a day), then I just had to quit due to knee soreness. At the time I was about 170lbs, which is no feather, so this might have something to do with it.
I can't believe these people who refuse to give up running -- I see them hobbling along at 5mph with bandages all over them, and I feel like yelling out: "just take up cycling...jeeez".

From my experience, running was always harder than cycling over a similar duration -- any way you wanna mix either of them up, running is MURDER by comparison. It also requires more preparation than cycling (eating and drinking too soon prior, etc). It's also much less "smooth" and comfortable; I'd say I would only have felt good during ~2 out 5 five runs.

Having said all that, posting this message has made me realise how much I miss it , but the last time I tried it my chrondomalacia flared up after only 1km. The "runner's high", sometimes achieved when everything goes perfectly, and you're flying along at 10mph, is quite unique.


Koffee, as I'm sure you're aware, running is much better for bone density.............and 70mins a day??!!!??? That is A LOT!!!
Are you sure you were going 4mph? That's almost a brisk walk.

Like the other poster said, the soreness is most likely you not being used to the movement, but for those that don't know: running is much harder on the legs becuase of the eccentric muscle contractions (lengthening under load). Cycling is virtually ALL concentric (muscles shorten under load). This is why marathon runners can only do so many marathons a year, but the Tour de France riders can ride 6 hours a day, day after day.

PS
One of my favourite ever lectures at uni was on sarcomeres (etc) and muscle contractions. Funny how you always remember the interesting stuff at the exam.

Last edited by 531Aussie; 12-16-04 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 12-16-04, 08:54 AM   #6
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What I fear...My history of running..Will my knees suffer from the damage inflicted and interfere with my cycling...Knee replacement scares the hell out of me...Had to do it all over again, I would have gotten into cyling from the start...
Possibly, tread mills might be easier on the joints. Less jarring on the knees...I lived in cold climates, I think I would grow to like my trainer...Plus, swimming in the winter.
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Old 12-16-04, 09:01 AM   #7
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friends don't let friends run.
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Old 12-16-04, 09:09 AM   #8
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Cement

How many are/were running on cement (concrete?)?

We have lots of runners around here who run the cement trails. Yet we have parallel dirt/gravel paths, plus some wonderful "cross-country" dirt and gravel running areas. I find that even when I walk on cement for any length of time, my knee and hip start hurting, yet if I do the same distance on dirt or gravel I have no pain.

Even asphalt is better than cement (concrete?), IMHO, as it has an uneven surface, and is softer and gives a little.

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Old 12-16-04, 09:51 AM   #9
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I was a pretty good sprinter in my high schools days, but anything longer than 400m just didn't compute with my body. I tend to lope or spring with really long strides, so it's like every step is a long jump. Just too much pressure on every step. The few times I've tried to take up jogging, I quit after the the first or second night out.

Yes, thank God for cycling. And when I can't get on the bike, the elliptical machine is on standby.
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Old 12-16-04, 10:48 AM   #10
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Haha, I remember those days. Running beats your body up a lot more. I remember those 15+ mile long runs where the only way I would be able to walk the next day is to buy like 15# of ice, run a cold bath, slowly lower myself in (screaming at times!) then dump the 15# of ice in. Oh I would also fill 2 gallon size zip locks with ice and use that for spot treatments on the knees and any sore spots while lounging in the ice water . Then I would force myself to wait till the last ice cube in the tub melted down. My neighbors probably thought I was performing satanic rituals with all the screaming! Very effective though. .... good times
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Old 12-16-04, 12:37 PM   #11
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Running is quite painful... but if most of the pain is muscular, chances are after a week or two it won't bother you much. I've run track & field all my life so my muscles are perfectly fine running all day, but my knees and hips and low back just can't take it anymore! I also cannot run slow, which would probably be much easier on the joints, or I feel like shooting myself.
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Old 12-16-04, 03:48 PM   #12
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I highly recommend you try the run/walk approach to running:

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/...-0-236,00.html

It really helps to prevent injuries and to ease you into longer distances (like a marathon).
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Old 12-16-04, 04:27 PM   #13
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Koffee, I feel your pain!!

I just started running agian to get some variety in my training. also its easier to go for a run some nights than it is to drag the bike out. My legs have been trashed for the last 2 days, but im not going to let that stop me and id like to keep it up and devote one morning / night to a run. If anything the pain tells me that there are several muscles that i am neglecting which may be hampering my cycling performance.

the walk / run method sort of came naturally to me as i equated it to doing intervals on a bike. It seems to work and i can get all the recovery i need.

does anyone think that 1 hour or so run a week would cause issues with injury? Next year i mite run the city to surf marathon here in sydney if i can can get used to it.

Running is such a different expereince, you can take in more of your surroundings and its quite rewarding when you get it right. im hooked, but it would be hard work to seperate me from my bike!

g
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Old 12-16-04, 04:49 PM   #14
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Well... after running today, I've just decided to do one a day runs. Splitting it up into 2 -35 min sessions is just painful. Today, I just ran once. Yeah... at 4 miles per hour, I just don't run very fast at all. I am not a runner at all. I think I look like a cross between a chicken and someone stumbling. And it's 4.3 miles per hour at a 2% incline. That's about all I can take. And I can only run on the treadmills at the club by my house. It's called a "Soft Run" treadmill by LifeCycle, and it has 2 fans on it. I just put my music on and zone out. Then afterwards, I can ride my bike and not feel too horrible in the legs. I'm thinking that in a couple of weeks, this won't feel like anything.

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Old 12-16-04, 07:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by koffee brown
Well... after running today, I've just decided to do one a day runs. Splitting it up into 2 -35 min sessions is just painful. Today, I just ran once. Yeah... at 4 miles per hour, I just don't run very fast at all. I am not a runner at all. I think I look like a cross between a chicken and someone stumbling. And it's 4.3 miles per hour at a 2% incline. That's about all I can take. And I can only run on the treadmills at the club by my house. It's called a "Soft Run" treadmill by LifeCycle, and it has 2 fans on it. I just put my music on and zone out. Then afterwards, I can ride my bike and not feel too horrible in the legs. I'm thinking that in a couple of weeks, this won't feel like anything.

Koffee
AAAAH, a treadmill on an incline -- that changes everything. Much less impact, IMO
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Old 12-16-04, 11:11 PM   #16
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How is an incline less impact? The impact comes from the foot hitting the ground. No matter what the incline, the impact is going to be there. But the incline is just to get my heart rate up, that's all. Plus, it adds a little more challenge.

I think it just helps that the treadmill is so user friendly. It's got two fans on the treadmill, big wide sides, the Soft Run floor, and it's new. Plus lots of room for water and I can put a couple of books on there. I can't run at my other gyms... I tried it, and man was it uncomfortable. But at this gym, the treadmill is real comfortable. It doesn't hurt that it faces Navy Pier, and on a nice day, you can totally veg out and just stare out at the nice weather, clear skies, and the Pier.

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Old 12-16-04, 11:42 PM   #17
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I was just my perception when I used to do it that an incline reduced some of the impact. I don't have any science to back it up.

What about at the end of the session when you return the incline back down to zero, whilst still running? That's when I noticed an increase in impact.
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Old 12-16-04, 11:45 PM   #18
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No, it's equally bad whether I have the incline on or off. Bleah.

But I've never read any study or articles that state an incline leads to less of an impact. I have read the studies that show that the impact comes from the ball and heel of the foot hitting the ground. I would have to assume that the ball and heel hits the ground, whether it's on an incline or on a flat. Interesting, though. Next time I read through my running books, I'll see if there's something mentioned (I like the books by Jerry Lynch, I think he's wonderful).

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Old 12-17-04, 02:20 AM   #19
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I run (job) and cycle. I use it as a crosstraining method, to work on cardio. I find tha tif you go slow and work at it you will be running in no time. When I first started I was "running" 6 MPH for 10 minutes. Not I can "run" at 6 MPH for 30 - 40 minutes, 2 - 3 miles. Just work towards it...
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Old 12-17-04, 07:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by koffee brown
No, it's equally bad whether I have the incline on or off. Bleah.

But I've never read any study or articles that state an incline leads to less of an impact. I have read the studies that show that the impact comes from the ball and heel of the foot hitting the ground. I would have to assume that the ball and heel hits the ground, whether it's on an incline or on a flat. Interesting, though. Next time I read through my running books, I'll see if there's something mentioned (I like the books by Jerry Lynch, I think he's wonderful).

Koffee
you know, treadmills give running a bad name (hah, I'm listening to bon jovi right now...)

I know i've said this before, but when you run on a treadmill, its even worse then being on a trainer with a bike, since running is a more strenious. I suggest that you bundle up and run outside. you dont need to get as bundled up when running since theres not the constant windchill of biking, so its a lot easier to do outside. and, you get the benifits of being able to look at the scenery for inspriation like you get when cycling.

also, I think the reason for the impact being lessened is that your foot doesn't fall as far. think about running downhill, your foot has to travel farther, and can pick up more speed before it hits the ground.
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Old 12-17-04, 10:38 AM   #21
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I think the reason for the impact being lessened is that your foot doesn't fall as far. think about running downhill, your foot has to travel farther, and can pick up more speed before it hits the ground.
Yeah!

Actually, I'm positive there's less impact on an incline; that's why I used to do it. This is probably a dodgey analogy (I can't be bothered thinking it through ), but compare running up stairs to running on a flat road or a slight decline -- I'm sure the pounding varies.

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Old 12-17-04, 12:49 PM   #22
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My wife and I have been runners for 25+ years, although she is the more religious one. She has run several marathons (I ran Boston once). A year or two ago she was doing a lot of running in a "fitness challenge" and got stress fractures, so started into cross training. Once she got into cross training, she decided to try triathalons, hence biking. Since she didn't want to do it alone, that's how I got back into biking this past year. After a season, we're both wishing that we had gotten serious about cycling 20 years ago -- it is so much easier on the joints, yet is really excellent exercise, and damn -- it is a whole lot more fun than running!
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Old 12-17-04, 06:55 PM   #23
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Wow... all interesting. I did some reading today to figure out why my muscles are so sore... it turns out that uphill running is concentric contractions of the muscles, which means less sarcomeres in the muscles, and less lengthening of the muscles, which makes it [i]seem[/] easier, while downhill running is mostly eccentric contractions of the muscles, which means more lengthening of the leg muscles, and with more lengthening of the muscles, there is more microtears and damage to the leg muscles, which leads to DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness). This really does make sense. The reading I've done suggested that for downhill running, it would be a good idea to lean slightly forward and take longer strides to counteract the stress from the eccentric contractions. For running uphill, they suggested lifting the knees more, avoiding heel strike when the foot makes contact (make contact with the middle of the foot instead), and push off strong on the foot as it comes off the ground. That should help reduce the stress of the uphill run.

I'm going to try both methods when I start back with my running on Monday. Yay! I'm off for the weekend! I only run Monday through Friday!

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Old 12-17-04, 07:31 PM   #24
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Oh, I forgot: IMO, too high an incline puts more stress on the Achilles

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Old 12-17-04, 07:41 PM   #25
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Yeah, I read about the achilles too. I don't think I'll ever do an incline over 5%.

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