hobkirk

The following quote [I added the week numbers] is from another thread from our illustrious CarbonFiberBoy [who gave me permission to post this]. These are questions for CFB but I am sure a lot of others know the answers also. Anyone is welcome to shed light on my poor perception...

I've read Joe Friel's Bible and Cycling Past 50and Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist and numerous web pages about intervals and I still don't completely grasp some of it. The CFB list above is an excellent and simple example of an interval plan so it seemed like a good sample to use for illustration.

First, I notice that CFB's plan is much less painful than Friel's or Carmichael's. CFB only has one set of intervals per week and has every other week being "easy." I'm sure part of that is age - recovery takes longer at age 50 or 60 than at 30.But my questions are:

1. Week 1 = "Z3, 2 X 15'-30', 10'-15' between intervals, 70 cadence strict"
   • Z3 = heart rate zone 3 - 89-93% of LTHR (that is 129-135 in my case)
     • When I start my 15-30 minute interval, my HR might be 110. After 2-3 minutes I can have it up to 129. I can pretty much keep it there as long as the road is flat. But there are always hills in any 4-10 mile stretch of road. And hills mean raising my HR (especially for me since I weigh over 220#).
     • I usually try to make my average HR be in the correct zone. Is that right?
2. "70 cadence strict"
   • Does that include when climbing those inevitable hills? This is mostly an academic question since I tend to stay sitting on climbs and I have touring gears so I am pretty well equipped to do this.
3. Week 5 - Z3, 3 X 10', 50 cadence
   • What's the purpose of 50 cadence? I don't recall anyone else suggesting such a low cadence. My average is about 80 although I can raise my average to 90 for a 20-30 mile ride if I concentrate. But I never mash at 50 unless I'm doing a steep hill.
4. Zone 5
   • I have Zone 5 listed as 5a (100-102% of LTHR), 5b (103-105), and 5c (over 105%) - is my 5a & 5b the same as your Zone 5 and my 5c equate to your Zone 5+?
     • [I am sure I could search and figure this out but it's so much easier to ask]
5. HR Zone targets - Zone 2 goes from 119-128 - that's quite a large range - I am seldomly under 120 unless I am essentially cruising
   • If I am feeling strong, should I aim for the high end of the range or is the center of the range the ideal target?
6. "some Z1, Z2, and pedaling drills"
   • What do these mean?

Well thanks. I hope this helps others (and me).

PS - I expect to loaf to a sub 5-hour century this Fall after I lose 50# and follow this plan! [I'm kidding!]

Carbonfiberboy 

I dunno hobkirk, "illustrious" is a bit much. My friends prefer "Demented."

General comments:
I see that I wasn't terribly precise about some of this. Each section between easy weeks is supposed to be 3 weeks long, so each step is a month, and this is about a 6 months plan.

In retrospect, I think the 8 minute Z5 intervals were a bit much. I had to be really well rested to do them. 4 or 5 minute intervals would have been better for me.

I have always trained so as to be able to participate in group rides with riders who would become my friends, and who were all more talented riders than I. It's like racers, whose only reason for racing is so they'll be forced to train. I downloaded my group ride data to my computer, and deducted the time I spent in zones 4 & 5 from my weekly allotment. Often I would specifically try to achieve the weekly times during my group ride by attacking or taking long hard pulls on the front.

The weakness of training with HR is that it takes a while for HR to respond to the interval. Assume that I do not mean for you to achieve the stated HR at the beginning of the interval. Rather I mean for you to ride at a Rating of Perceived Exertion (RPE) that will have your HR in the zone after maybe 5 minutes and then you hold that RPE and hopefully HR for the rest of the interval. On the short Z5 intervals you'll try to reach that HR by the end. If you cannot achieve the HR specified, end the workout and pedal home in Z2. If you are doing hill repeats and you don't get as far up the hill on one interval as you did on the previous one, quit and pedal home.

I'll split this up into several comments to avoid the wall of text. Answers to hobkirk's questions next.

Carbonfiberboy 

Trying to answer hobkirk's questions:

1 & 2) I try to hold the cadence and HR steady and right on target. I'll pick courses that allow that. Thus I'd shift almost constantly and descents had to be extremely shallow. If I ran out of gears, I'd hold the HR and let the cadence drift up. Descending is the problem, not climbing. The problem with letting HR go up and down is that then you're recovering and overstressing. This is a very precise and stressful exercise. I actually think it's best done on rollers so one has complete control. One will overtrain if one does this for more than 3 weeks.

3) The 50 cadence may be Old School now. Lance used to do this. They're called Muscle Tension Intervals. They're said to build "non-fatiguing cycling specific strength." Perhaps more importantly, at that slow cadence one can suss out exactly what muscles have to fire when, so as to pedal without upper body movement. It's hard to find a good hill for this. However, I think this is better done outside than on a trainer. Then when one pedals one's normal climbing cadence near 80, one should have more strength and pedal with better mechanics. However! Don't do this if you have knee problems or during your first 2 years of serious training - substitute regular climbing cadence at the specified HR.

4) I went somewhere well over LT. I wasn't that precise with where that was, just extremely hard and short of blowing up. It's hard with HR to get that precise.

5) I don't know the answer to that. I usually went for the upper end of that range. Now I believe I should have gone a little easier. But it's how you feel. It's not supposed to be stressful, just aerobic. Break a sweat and breathe deeply and regularly. It's a pace you could keep up for hours, actually a little slower than your doing-it-for-time flat double century pace.

6) If I rode a hard group ride on Sunday, I'd either take Monday off or go hiking with my wife for a few hours, zone 1. On Tuesday, I'd get on my rollers and do 15 minutes of Z1, then 15-45 minutes of either Fast Pedal (FP) or One Legged Pedaling (OLP). FP is continuous pedaling in Z2 at the highest cadence you can reach and stay in zone. As small a gear as you can use and keep a taut chain. 39 X 23 or something like that, maybe even lower. Try for a cadence of 115-120. Hold it for the entire period, no break. I start with 15 minutes and gradually work up to 45 minutes over a month or two. After I could hold 45 minutes, each period I'd start at 15 minutes in the easy week and build back to 45 minutes in the last week. I'd do that from November until the end of January. From then on, I'd shift into climbing training and start OLP. 2 minutes on each leg, then 2 minutes legs together, repeat. Two speeds: one set at 50-55 cadence, one set at 80-85 cadence, legs together always at 90-95 cadence. Gear large enough on the OLP that you cry for your mommy at the end of the 2 minutes. No HR specified. You must keep a taut chain the entire interval. That's what hurts. If you can't hold it for 2 minutes, work up to it. On the legs together, always Z2. Same times and schedule as for the FP. Finish both FP and OLP with another 15 minutes Z1.

May (now) is way too late to start a real training plan. Do a little of this this summer, especially the FP, some of the other things, then get organized next October or November. I had to start by Nov. 1 for sure if I was going to have a good season. Never take the winter off, never.

Watch for overtraining! Take and graph your morning resting and resting standing HRs. That's probably the most important thing of all. You can't train and get results if you're too tired to do the work. More work just makes it worse. If your results fall off, you need rest, not more training. I usually took a full week completely off in the spring and another in the summer.

My good performance on group rides was not only due to my own efforts but also to the efforts of my riding buddies. Cooperative riding, we call it. It's not racing, but rather pushing each other. We'd hurt each other, regroup and do it again. Everyone's a winner.

chasm54

Well done CFB, lots of help here for those who aren't used to training systematically.

The problem of "HR lag" - that is, it taking time before the HR catches up with the effort one is making - is the principal weakness of HR-based training, imo. If I try to get my HR up to the desired rate in the first interval, I will be going far too hard and be unable to complete the series. Part of the solution is experience - one gets used to judging the effort required. Even more important is warming up properly. Only when I am thoroughly warmed up (like, for more than a half-hour) does my HR become sufficiently mobile to respond quickly.

hobkirk

THANK YOU Carbon Fiber Boy! I appreciate your response here and in all the other posts. Your posts seem consistently on point and backed by serious research and a lot of experience.

PS - Those Zone 5 workouts in Months 5 & 6 don't sound pleasant...

Carbonfiberboy 

They're actually fun, done right. You'll have spent a lot of time working up to them. It's all in the prep. To be able to go that hard on a hill, man, you feel like you're really doing something. You'll also gain the experience of knowing what it feels like. Then when that fast boy goes by you just before the top of the climb you'll sit his wheel and know if you can hold it to the top and then crush him. The sprints are kind of tough, but they're over so quickly. The pain part is only a few seconds and you've got 5 minutes rest between them. I often cut those short and only did 45". Depends on your talent, how long you can hold that. I picked about a 4% grade on a low traffic road for those, so I had some momentum and could big-ring it out of the saddle and in the drops. We have a 1' hill on one of our standard routes. I'd see if I could be first up. Sprinting a hill sure cuts it down to size. The trick is to summit right when you blow up. Pull up like a maniac. The folks who climbed it like an ordinary hill will be 30" or so behind you. Energy for sprinting comes from a different source. You can always sprint, no matter how tired you are, as long as you aren't cramping. Of course you won't be as fast, tired, but neither will any one else.