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Old 04-29-12, 09:37 PM   #1
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4-HOUR BODY diet for quick weight loss? Advice sought...

The "Slow Carb" diet by Tim Ferris in 4 Hour Body is:
  • 3-4 meals a day
  • every meal has lean protein, green vegetables, and beans (!)
  • 7th day of every week is go off the diet - he says to go crazy!

I've been on it 3 weeks -
  • I lost 5# on week 1 and another 5# over the next 2 weeks
  • I only eat 3 meals - I think I've had a 4th meal once
  • I put on 1-2 pounds on the "off day" (just like he claimed)
  • I had to change my "off day" to Friday so I would have more energy for a Saturday racing clinic I've been taking
  • I found the "off day" quite interesting.
    • After week 1 (pizza, ice cream, etc.),
    • I found it pretty easy to skip bread (despite my history of love with raisin bagels and sandwiches), I craved (and ate) fruit and a bunch of Fig Newtons. My baked potato didn't seem particularly good.
  • I have bonked once but most of my rides have been OK, including two 60-mile rides. I start to run out of gas after 35 miles but it isn't much of a problem (given that I need to lose a lot of weight). The bonk occurred around mile 35 on a 40-mile ride (I debated calling my wife for a rescue only 3 miles from my house).

The "normal result" is 5#/week. I had planned on trying to stick with it for 2 months and then try to convert to better eating. I can see how this will probably lead me into wanting healthier food but I still will face my huge problem with portion control (it's mental - I eat even when I feel stuffed). I've followed the diet religiously with 3 probable (?) exceptions:
  • I have 10-20 almonds 2-3 times a day
  • I sometimes eat quite large quantities (big portions) - although it's not too excessive
    • A typical meal is 8-9 ounces of beef with 1/3 can of beans and a healthy portion of spinach.
    • My breakfast is a 2 egg spinach omelet (no cheese) with a side of beans.
    • I often add some onions and peppers to whatever, including the omelet (sauted in a small amount of olive oil).
  • Sometimes I calm my stomach (or maybe it's my mind) with some extra protein between meals

Questions:
  1. I think the almonds must be bad - too much oil? I am trying to mostly eliminate them (this week) but it's too early to see the results.
  2. Any comments or suggestions?

Notes:
  • I am 66, 226 (I've been at 238 for a while, I started at 247), I ride about 7K a year, and hills KILL me! I do a lot of group rides (I even lead some) so I know 100% how hills affect me compared to other riders (including old riders).
  • I push myself - I've ridden several centuries, I do intervals occasionally, I alternate hard and easy days, and I get my heart rate up above my LTH on at least half my rides. I've been riding for 22 months.
  • I weighed around 175 at 40 when I was running (including occasional marathons, all under 3 hours).
  • Tim Ferris seems pretty flaky to me! I WILL NOT defend him or his methodology! But the diet seemed like it might work (a diet can only work if it's appealing enough that I can follow it) and the "off day" seemed like a worth-while reward (although I am surprised that I don't want to splurge by eating a cheesecake!).
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Old 04-29-12, 09:59 PM   #2
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Normally I like to bash diet, but this actually sounds pretty darn solid. Beans are the best carbohydrate, and lean protein and veggies are perfect. And that cheat day prevents not only a plateau, but keeps you from going crazy. Although I think it's stupid how he thinks he can claim that this is a diet he created, since all bodybuilders follow the same nutritional plan.

Edit: Almonds are a GREAT snack, and 95% of the fat and oil in them are healthy essential fats and oils. In fact, they are the perfect snack. Paired with water they will curb your appetite as well. Try to stick to raw almonds because flavored almonds are very, very high in sodium.

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Old 04-30-12, 12:33 AM   #3
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Almonds are great but very calorific. 10-20 once per day, maybe. Three times? No.

The meat portions are huge, as seems typical in the States. In Europe you'd more usually eat 4-6oz per portion. Try that, and replace the other ounces with more beans or green vegetables.

You're eating more thAn enough protein, so eating more between meals is mental not physical. If you want to eat between meals try to make it apples, or oranges. Raw carrots work, too - quite filling, very low calories, nutrient-rich.

There is no point in bonking on a ride. In fact, I'd think it was a risk to your plan in that it is likely to prompt uncontrolled eating when you finish. Eating something during your ride wouldn't hurt. And if you eat soon after you finish, and make that your main meal of the day, that would be a pretty good choice.

Spinach is great. There are other vegetables available, though... LOL

When it comes to portion control, fruit and vegetables are your friends. Fill yourself up with them. There's a surprising amount of protein in green vegetables, by the way. And as you have realised, the key is changing your habits so that it seems normal to eat more healthily. This will take several weeks, maybe months. But it does happen.

Finally, if you are fifty pounds above your ideal weight, hills are bound to kill you. It's the equivalent of a touring cyclist carrying a very substantial amount of stuff for a camping trip. And touring cyclists use very low gears as a result. So be assured that if you stick with this, you will see a substantial improvement in your cycling.

Last edited by chasm54; 04-30-12 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 04-30-12, 06:20 AM   #4
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The "Off Day" also serves the purpose of "Shocking" your metabolism. The body will adjust to any diet fairly fast. The one day of the week that you 'cheat' kicks the metabolism back up into high gear to get rid of the sudden excess ('excess' being kept within reason, of course). Axiom is right, it's a trick that has been used by body builders forever.
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Old 04-30-12, 01:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
Normally I like to bash diet, but this actually sounds pretty darn solid. Beans are the best carbohydrate, and lean protein and veggies are perfect. And that cheat day prevents not only a plateau, but keeps you from going crazy. Although I think it's stupid how he thinks he can claim that this is a diet he created, since all bodybuilders follow the same nutritional plan.
Thanks. The author doesn't really claim he created any of his info - he synthesizes ideas and tests them on himself and compulsively measures the results (sometimes he has blood work taken every day).

Edit: Almonds are a GREAT snack, and 95% of the fat and oil in them are healthy essential fats and oils. In fact, they are the perfect snack. Paired with water they will curb your appetite as well. Try to stick to raw almonds because flavored almonds are very, very high in sodium.
ALMONDS - Trader Joe's "Roasted / Unsalted" (they taste slightly better than their "Raw" almonds.
WATER - About 3 years ago I switched from only drinking Diet Coke (I'd go off it for about a week ever year or two just to make sure the caffeine wasn't a problem) to only drinking tap water flavored with some lemon juice. This was one of my major healthy diet accomplishments!
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Almonds are great but very calorific. 10-20 once per day, maybe. Three times? No.
As I suspected. Thanks

The meat portions are huge, as seems typical in the States. In Europe you'd more usually eat 4-6oz per portion. Try that, and replace the other ounces with more beans or green vegetables.
I will try. But I admit to being thoroughly American, even when I was living in Europe from age 8 to 16.

You're eating more than enough protein, so eating more between meals is mental not physical. If you want to eat between meals try to make it apples, or oranges. Raw carrots work, too - quite filling, very low calories, nutrient-rich.
Ah, but there is the rub. The diet specifically says NO FRUIT (except tomatoes). Carrots are OK, according to the author, but I dislike them (maybe I will change my opinion after I harvest the carrots I planted).

There is no point in bonking on a ride. It was only once.In fact, I'd think it was a risk to your plan in that it is likely to prompt uncontrolled eating when you finish. Eating something during your ride wouldn't hurt. And if you eat soon after you finish, and make that your main meal of the day, that would be a pretty good choice.

Spinach is great. There are other vegetables available, though... LOL
(I eat numerous other vegetables, although it's spinach 50% of the time because it's convenint.)

When it comes to portion control, fruit and vegetables are your friends. Fill yourself up with them. There's a surprising amount of protein in green vegetables, by the way. And as you have realised, the key is changing your habits so that it seems normal to eat more healthily. This will take several weeks, maybe months. But it does happen.
I notice it's already starting to happen. Yay!

Finally, if you are fifty pounds above your ideal weight, hills are bound to kill you. It's the equivalent of a touring cyclist carrying a very substantial amount of stuff for a camping trip. And touring cyclists use very low gears as a result. So be assured that if you stick with this, you will see a substantial improvement in your cycling.
I started cycling to substitute for running for (1) cardiovascular health and (2) weight loss. The first worked but the second stopped working pretty quickly (my body adapts quickly). It's ironic that cycling is now driving my compulsion to lose weight - I remember the pleasure of shedding a 50# backpack when I used to backpack overnight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pedaler View Post
The "Off Day" also serves the purpose of "Shocking" your metabolism. The body will adjust to any diet fairly fast. The one day of the week that you 'cheat' kicks the metabolism back up into high gear to get rid of the sudden excess ('excess' being kept within reason, of course). Axiom is right, it's a trick that has been used by body builders forever.
Thanks for the "Shocking" comment. My instinct said that was probably the idea, but the author didn't offer much reason.

---------------

More on author/book:

The author is definitely into strength training. He has a large section on it, although he's more into dynamic activity like kettle ball swings than bar work. He also researched techniques used by NFL prospects to improve vertical leap and sprint speed (with impressive results on himself).

As an irrelevant although titillating aside... The book also gives a very clinical presentation on giving a woman a 20-minute orgasm with no talking (can distract the woman) or sex (this is 100% about her orgasm).
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Old 05-02-12, 10:52 AM   #6
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I agree, it's all solid. This is not a diet. This is a lifestyle change. Never stop! You'll eventually want to vary your meals more, but keep most of these same parameters. For the Friday Go Large Day, we have people over and party. Portion control! I have a glass of pure fruit juice with breakfast and lunch, a cup of herbal tea with dinner. You can't have the juice, so substitute coffee or herb tea. I'll only eat until I'm not hungry, maybe stopping while I still feel a little hungry. There's a lag time between eating and hunger cessation. During that lag time I'll drink my juice or drink my tea, take my vitamins, maybe read a little. Then . . if I'm still hungry I'll eat a little more, just a little. But I hardly ever am. I have the same experience of desiring a little protein between meals, so I'll use 15g whey protein in water. I don't eat meat, but that's not for everyone. Instead of the almonds, I mix up some trail mix of lightly salted peanuts, M&Ms, and raisins, 1 part each, and have a measured amount in a measuring cup. If I'm hungry at bedtime, I'll have an ounce of cheese or another 15g whey. That works well.

You're not going to continue at 5 lb./week. If you can do a pound a week, that's fabulous. Don't burn out on it. This is the rest of your life.
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Old 03-16-14, 10:51 AM   #7
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just wondering what you consume while biking. mu friends all use high carb jells and bars, what do you eat when you are not on binge day?
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Old 03-16-14, 11:12 AM   #8
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Congrats on the weight loss and recovery commitment. I read a study that all the major diet types work if you stick with them.
For me I just repeat "stay on the path" whenever I feel like straying from my diet. Anyway kudos to you!

Charlie
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Old 03-16-14, 11:15 AM   #9
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It may well be a great diet, but to lose 5 lb/week (of fat) takes consuming 17,500 calories less than you're burning. So you're eating that much less, burning that much more, or some combination thereof.

It's very common to lose 4+ lbs the first week of any diet as your body first consumes its stores of glycogen which liberates that much weight in water which is excreted.
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Old 03-16-14, 03:25 PM   #10
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It may well be a great diet, but to lose 5 lb/week (of fat) takes consuming 17,500 calories less than you're burning. So you're eating that much less, burning that much more, or some combination thereof.

It's very common to lose 4+ lbs the first week of any diet as your body first consumes its stores of glycogen which liberates that much weight in water which is excreted.
That's what I was thinking - sort of a reality check on how much of the weight "lost" is really just water. Same thing with "gaining" 1 - 2 pounds on the off day.
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Old 03-16-14, 10:19 PM   #11
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Support Forums for Lyle McDonald | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
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Old 03-17-14, 12:35 PM   #12
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So the first article on the home page indicates that it's possible to drop a few pounds of fat in a few days, but it's not for the faint of heart: A time-efficient reduction of fat mass in 4 days with exercise and caloric restriction - Research Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

They had the study subjects taking in about 300 calories per day and then exercising 8 hrs 45 min per day over four days, creating a deficit of about 5,500 calories. I bet they had a few cranky participants at the end of that study....
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Old 03-17-14, 01:12 PM   #13
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That was a review by Lyle of a current article. He does a lot of those and they are quite informative. Those participants were quite overweight btw and when that is the case, losing weight usually doesn’t involve losing very much muscle mass even under such extreme circumstances.

The site overall is geared towards bodybuilders but there is a lot of great info on nutrition and training that 99% straight from the science and not brosense.
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Old 03-17-14, 03:13 PM   #14
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just wondering what you consume while biking. mu friends all use high carb jells and bars, what do you eat when you are not on binge day?
It's been a while since the original post. On big rides (i.e., over 60 miles in my case) I would eat anything. On somewhat long rides (maybe 35-60 miles for me) I would eat a Clif Bar and maybe some almonds. My drink was water, usually with a little lemon added. I was beginning to think that maybe I should study the subject but I never did.

I followed this diet plan quite steadily for 5 months. I was riding 100-150 miles a week. I lost 40 pounds. For almost the entire time, I did not limit the quantity of food I ate. I felt fantastic! 200#! Lots of people commented. I set a PR on a 53 mile group ride (I rode with the fast boys, pulling my share, for the first 20 miles). This was my PR for any ride over 20 miles! My primary care doc (skinny, tall, 70, former cyclist) and several other friends suggested I should stop losing weight.

I was flying high! Then I found a lump in my left breast. The only good thing about cancer is you lose weight, but not me. I put the whole 40# back on! I am dabbling going back on the diet, but only holding steady - I broke my hip, and I am only beginning to ride again.

But the take away is that the diet did work for me. And I think it will again once I can be more active.
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Old 03-17-14, 03:31 PM   #15
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Almost sound how I eat, Just I don't lose weight. Breakfast is steel cut oats with some apple, blueberries and grapes ( the fruits do alternate week to week). Today for example My snack time fruit was a plum (10am) at lunch I had my salad, Romaine, with chick peas, kidney beans, black eyed peas, feta cheese, almond slivers, cucumber, cherry tomatoes. I always make the dressing with either white or dark balsamic and extra virgin olive oil. Dinner will be the same salad ( it is very filling) I had off today due to weather so I rode on the trainer for 45 min the after made a milk, banana, and almond meal smoothy with some coco powder for flavor.
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Old 03-17-14, 04:28 PM   #16
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Stop losing weight at 200#?? How tall are you, 6’4?
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Old 03-17-14, 04:38 PM   #17
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I was flying high! Then I found a lump in my left breast. The only good thing about cancer is you lose weight, but not me. I put the whole 40# back on! I am dabbling going back on the diet, but only holding steady - I broke my hip, and I am only beginning to ride again.
As I young grad student I was unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer and had to go through chemo (this began 21 years ago this month). They gave me a list with all the highest-calorie foods you can think of, and told me to eat everything I could get down because it was assumed that a lot of it would come back up again. That advice had gotten a little out of date, because there was a new anti-nausea drug that they gave me. I discovered that there was a little snack shop right on campus that served up ice cream, milk shakes, and other dairy products provided by the school's own livestock. That became a regular stop for me, because the milk shakes were awesome, and right up there on the list of foods I was told to eat. Suffice it to say, though I was nauseous all the time, the new drug was great at keeping things from coming back up & I ended up gaining a little weight!

Anyway, glad you got through the cancer and broken hip & are back on the bike again!
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Old 03-17-14, 09:37 PM   #18
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Almost sound how I eat, Just I don't lose weight. Breakfast is steel cut oats with some apple, blueberries and grapes ( the fruits do alternate week to week). Today for example My snack time fruit was a plum (10am) at lunch I had my salad, Romaine, with chick peas, kidney beans, black eyed peas, feta cheese, almond slivers, cucumber, cherry tomatoes. I always make the dressing with either white or dark balsamic and extra virgin olive oil. Dinner will be the same salad ( it is very filling) I had off today due to weather so I rode on the trainer for 45 min the after made a milk, banana, and almond meal smoothy with some coco powder for flavor.
Actually your diet is quite different, especially breakfast. Zero fruit, zero grains, zero dairy. Beans are required at every meal. My breakfast is a spinach 3-egg omelet with turkey bacon plus re-fried beans and more spinach.

My main problem, aside from gluttony, is a complete lack of portion control.

--------------------

Rob A Beatle -

6'2" - I had planned on trying to reach 185. And then see how I felt about continuing.
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Old 03-18-14, 04:33 AM   #19
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I suffer from portion control also. You are definitely not alone there
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Old 03-18-14, 05:02 AM   #20
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I suffer from portion control also. You are definitely not alone there
Same here. I'd say that's a problem most of us suffer from.
That's why I always have better luck when I'm eating better foods. you don't really have to control your portions of spinach salads or eggs.
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