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  1. #1
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Doing weights after biking during off season

    For many years, I've been lifting weights after biking from about October to May. Sometimes after a spin class or roller work in the winter, sometimes after a 2 hour ride in the spring. "Normal" recommendations for weights are either to do them before aerobics or not to do aerobics on the same day. I started lifting after aerobic work in my 20's after trying the normal recommendation and getting no improvement in my aerobic ability. I still got improvement in my lifting ability, in fact it didn't seem to damage my maxes at all once I got used to it. So that was just my experience for 40 years or so.

    Now comes the Swedish School of Sport and Health Sciences with a November 2011 study which finds the science behind my experience:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21836044
    I think that's a big deal.

    The Oct. 2012 study I was looking for at the SSSHS, before I also ran across the above study of theirs, further validates doing an occasional second workout in a day, glycogen-depleted:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23053125
    I've tried that, too, but recommend it only for the highly motivated, which I'm not sufficiently.

  2. #2
    Senior Member robabeatle's Avatar
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    thank you for the link

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    NotGettinMyLanceOn GettinMyLanceOn's Avatar
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    Resistance training before you do aerobics just makes sense. You don't want your body all burned out. If you are doing heavy cardio before lifting, you'll probably not be as strong as you would be, and more likely to injure your self.

  4. #4
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GettinMyLanceOn View Post
    Resistance training before you do aerobics just makes sense. You don't want your body all burned out. If you are doing heavy cardio before lifting, you'll probably not be as strong as you would be, and more likely to injure your self.
    I know that's the way bodybuilders do it. Many things "make sense." In terms of increasing aerobic capacity, yes you do want your body all burned out when done. That's the point of endurance exercise. Oddly, it seems to me that aerobic exercise doesn't much blunt one's lifting, once one gets used to it. The energy sources are a little different. A few years ago I worked up to doing over 4 X bodyweight on the sled after spin class, which I thought was fairly strong. You should hardly be able to walk when you leave the gym, not ready to ride your bike! That's not to say one should lift after blowing all one's glycogen on a fast century. Hardly. That's not what I'm talking about or what was studied. A 1-2 hour training ride with maybe a few intervals is what I did on a lifting day. In the study, they did one hour at a zone 3 pace, a fairly tiring steady go. And one is less likely to get injured when well warmed up, not more. The other thing that seemed obvious to me is that one most frequently sprints at the end of a road race. This progression simulates that. I sprinted pretty well even when exhausted almost to cramping.

    OTOH, if you want to focus on increasing your maximum lifts rather than your aerobic capacity, by all means lift first.

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    Senior Member camelopardalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    The Oct. 2012 study I was looking for at the SSSHS, before I also ran across the above study of theirs, further validates doing an occasional second workout in a day, glycogen-depleted:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23053125
    I've tried that, too, but recommend it only for the highly motivated, which I'm not sufficiently.
    Hey CBF,

    Does this apply to training when close to bonking?

  6. #6
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camelopardalis View Post
    Hey CBF,

    Does this apply to training when close to bonking?
    Never tried it. I doubt that's a good idea. Since I mostly lift in the winter, I usually do something like a 2 hour endurance or interval ride, but nothing that would eat up all my glycogen. I normally only make one ride even close to the limit per week and don't lift after. Instead I have a beer and a nap. Feeling whupped after a ride doesn't mean you're too tired to lift, though.

  7. #7
    Question Authority JoeMan's Avatar
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    I feel stronger and have more endurance if I pump iron and ride all year. I am not a racer. I do like to take short ( 4-5 day tours ). I do more than just ride my bike though for fun. Backpacking and Japanese style archery are two examples.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    used to 3 intense training sessions a day - before work, at lunch and after work. all three were different, meaning 1 was swimming, 1 was running, and 1 was weight training, or substitute the swimming with cycling, etc. the only thing I gave a full 48 hrs rest period for was the weight training. this felt like the perfect plan. a couple times i cycled to the gym for upper body weight training but declined doing that often cuz I always wanted to give ea. sport my maximum effort.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    yeah,good idea, Resistance training before you do aerobics just makes sense. You don't want your body all burned out,thanks

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    now I run 2 miles everyday at lunch and do weight training 2 nights a week after work. I still like separating the training sessions with rest and nutrition.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  11. #11
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollarducks View Post
    yeah,good idea, Resistance training before you do aerobics just makes sense. You don't want your body all burned out,thanks
    Except that experience and science say the opposite. But do whatever you want. From the link I gave:
    Contrary to our hypothesis, the results demonstrate that ER, performed after E, amplifies the adaptive signaling response of mitochondrial biogenesis compared with single-mode endurance exercise. The mechanism may relate to a cross talk between signaling pathways mediated by mTOR. The results suggest that concurrent training may be beneficial for the adaptation of muscle oxidative capacity.
    Following yesterday's hour on the rollers, including 30 minutes of high cadence, I did 3 sets of 30 of 8 different multi-joint lifts. That's over 700 reps in an hour, each set close to failure. By mid-January, I should be ready to start reducing reps and adding weight. Yeah, you try that in reverse order! But it depends on what you want to get good at. I'm looking at putting up some personal bests this year on our tandem. It's cold now where my rollers are, so I'm only spinning about 115 on them and getting HR drift. But it's winter and my endurance is crap. I don't care, yet.

    The plan tomorrow is to Alpine ski for a few hours, then do an hour's spin class, then lift. Probably only be able to get 2 sets of 30 of the 8 lifts. 3 sets is still probably too much for me after skiing, even though I've been building up to it for 2 months.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    For many years, I've been lifting weights after biking
    I am just starting to do this. Weights feel good after a hard spin class. Good to know there is some support for it.
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  13. #13
    Lover of Old Chrome Moly Myosmith's Avatar
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    Not all weight lifting (resistance training) is the same or has the same goals. Bodybuilders want mass and definition. Powerlifters want huge amounts of raw power. Cyclists, on the third hand, are generally not looking for either. You won't see many cyclists doing 600-pound squats and 400-pound bench presses just because it really doesn't serve any purpose for cycling. We generally use lighter weights, higher repetitions, and specific variations to meet our goals.

    I came from a powerlifting background and would never have considered a lifting session after a hard cardio session. Heck, I hardly did any traditional cardio at all (could explain why I weighed 300 pounds). Now that I'm off powerlifting and into cycling I regularly mix cardio and resistance training. One of my favorite routines is made possible by the arrangement of my local gym. The elliptical trainers are set up right next to the Nautilus equipment so I began combining Tabata HIIT with circuit resistance training. For example, I'll warm up for 10 minutes on the elliptical trainer then do 3 minutes of all out effort. For the rest and recovery phase I'll walk over to the Nautilus upperbody machine of choice and do three sets of 12-15 repetitions at a weight that results in failure or near failure on the last set. I then return to the elliptical trainer for another 3 minutes of all out effort and the cycle repeats. I then cool down with another 10-15 minutes of elliptical training at a HR of around 150. In about an hour I can get in bench press, seated rowing, pull downs and biceps mixed with four 3-minute hard runs and 20-30 minutes of steady state cardio. This wipes me out pretty well for the day so I only do it about once a week.

    Even on days when I do free weights, I usually do a 15-20 minute spin or elliptical session first, take a short break on the walking track, then go to the weights. As I'm not lifting anywhere near the amount of weight I used to, I have no problem combining the two and personally think that the cardio work warms and primes the muscles for resistance work. I just wouldn't do cardio to exhaustion then try to lift.
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  14. #14
    Has opinion, will express
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myosmith View Post
    I just wouldn't do cardio to exhaustion then try to lift.
    I think this is one of the problems with fitness advisers -- that it is an either/or situation, and that exercising in the two areas requires it to exhaustion or failure.

    For cycling purposes, to me, lifting is repetition with light to moderate weights to improve muscle strength where it counts -- the core in particular. It is a combination of cardio and strength improvement as pedaling uphill in a slightly higher gear than comfortable would be.
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