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  1. #1
    Travler
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    I read an article about this saying to avoid more uptake of this sugar. Can anyone give me some info on this?

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    Corn syrup

    Corn syrup is fine, provided you use it only when necessary. It is a good way to get quick carbohydrates during long exercise, to make sure that your body does not run out of sugar. Also, your body needs carbohydrates to burn and release the energy available from fat.

    Snowplug

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    Senior Member mike's Avatar
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    Here is an easy experiment with various sugars

    Sugars are used mostly as a quick boost when you don't have time to wait for digestion to kick in for the fuel you need.

    We all know that sucrose has a quick rush of energy followed by a devastating energy crash.

    Some of the other sugars have a better burn rate than sucrose without the severe crash. One of the better sugars in this regard is fructose. Corn sugar is an inexpensive and highly concentrated supply of fructose, but personally I do not find that it is as good as fructose from more traditional fruits like apples or citris.

    Corn syrup also includes dextrose or malto dextrines which act more like sucrose with a high energy push with a following drop off. However, the dextrose, similar to maltose has a longer "burn" than sucrose and a less severe crash.

    You can experiment on your own and see how the various sugars do for you. Don't eat for four hours, or better yet, skip breakfast and then bike at noon before lunch. Measure off 1/2 cup of sugar in a pint of water and drink. Go for a demanding ride. Chart what happens with your own body chemistry. Obviously, you will have to do this experiment over several days experimenting with a new sugar each day:

    Here are some easy sugars to try:

    Sucrose: White table sugar

    Maltose: Get this from a friend who brews beer or buy some at your local Asian grocer. You are looking for sugar from a hard cereal grain like barley or rice. It will usually be in a syrup form at the grocer. Sometimes Asian grocers sell this a "Honey"- not deceptively, but because it is often confused in translation. Explain what you are looking for. Your best bet would be at a Korean grocer.

    Dextrose: Common corn syrup. Most of it will also have fructose in it, but what the heck.

    Fructose: You will have to make your own from pure fruit juice like apple juice and boil it down OR, if you can get some pure frozen apple juice without any other sugars added you can save yourself the trouble. Plain apple juice will not be concentrated enough to match the sugars in the above experiments.

    Honey: Natures own special blend of complex and simple sugars. Each hive and location makes it's own mix.

    Tell us what you find.

    [Edited by mike on Jan 10th at 02:48 PM]
    Mike

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    Senior Member pat5319's Avatar
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    Honey

    I've found honey works quite well and doesn't give the sugar crash. I've recently read that it has several components that enter the system at various rates since it is a complex mixture and may even contain protien. I often will ask for honey packets at a restaurant to save for later in the ride, very handy!.
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    hsg
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    HFCS = fatty deposits in your liver

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    We all know that sucrose has a quick rush of energy followed by a devastating energy crash.
    Can you supply a citation that shows that this occurs while exercising?


    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    Some of the other sugars have a better burn rate than sucrose without the severe crash. One of the better sugars in this regard is fructose.
    Sucrose (commonly used as "table sugar") is the fructose molecule bound to a glucose molecule.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    Corn syrup also includes dextrose or malto dextrines which act more like sucrose with a high energy push with a following drop off. However, the dextrose, similar to maltose has a longer "burn" than sucrose and a less severe crash.
    The only reason corn syrup has other sugars in it is because it's not cost effective to remove the other sugars.

    By the way, dextrose is glucose (monosaccharide) and maltose is a disaccharide - formula C12H22O11 - consisting of two glucose units (12 carbon atoms, and 2 ring-shaped structures, each containing an oxygen atom). The two sugars are linked via a glycosidic bond - an alpha 1-4 bond between opposite ends of the 2 glucose molecules.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike
    You can experiment on your own and see how the various sugars do for you. Don't eat for four hours, or better yet, skip breakfast and then bike at noon before lunch. Measure off 1/2 cup of sugar in a pint of water and drink. Go for a demanding ride. Chart what happens with your own body chemistry. Obviously, you will have to do this experiment over several days experimenting with a new sugar each day:
    One -could- spend their time with this, or they could just try glucose or fructose, both of which are the simplist sugars other than ribose which is impractical to acquire in quantity.
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowplug
    Corn syrup is fine, provided you use it only when necessary. It is a good way to get quick carbohydrates during long exercise, to make sure that your body does not run out of sugar. Also, your body needs carbohydrates to burn and release the energy available from fat.

    Snowplug

    +1
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    Isaias NoRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsg
    HFCS = fatty deposits in your liver
    Only if you "overfeed".
    2009 mileage = 14,738 miles; 2010 mileage = 15,234 miles; 2011 mileage = 17,344 miles; 2012 mileage = 11,414 miles; 2013 = 12,169

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    There are some significant differences between carbs WRT exercise. Sucrose (table sugar) in a drink isn't great as you end up pulling out a lot of water. Fructose takes a long time to digest, and can cause intestinal upset (though many people tolerate it well in mixtures).

    Glucose polymers (chains of glucose) like malto-dextrin seem to be the best choices.

    Good article here:

    http://www.cptips.com/cmplxcb.htm
    Eric

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  10. #10
    I fear angry birds Santaria's Avatar
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    For all the education waving, the reality is that it is not good for you. Its cheap and that is why it's in the food chain at this point. If there was other inexpensive options, I'm certain that someone would be able to break down how it could be 'not bad' for you too.

    Defining the uptake of sugar based off IV usage is not relevant to the question. He's not in need of a sugar fix, he asked if it was good or bad for him. Period.

    If that is somehow different for the average joe, please show me empirical evidence and data to back the ascertion you are making in showing a bunch of voodoo (what most people see it as) in defining it as health under general conditions.
    THE DEVIL

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  11. #11
    semifreddo amartuerer 'nother's Avatar
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    This topic comes up about once every couple of weeks. There are numerous threads going into excruciating detail on it. Most of the debate centers on a misunderstanding of what "high fructose" means, as there is some research that suggests that massive imbalances in fructose intake may cause some health problems.

    HFCS does not contain significantly more fructose than other sweeteners mentioned (sugar/sucrose, honey, maple syrup, etc.). In fact, depending on the formulation (42% fructose or 55% fructose), it may actually contain less fructose than what sucrose (rapidly) breaks down to in your digestive tract.

    Another mistake that the "HFCS is bad" people make is a false correlation of increase in HFCS consumption with obesity. The correlation is there, but correlation does not prove causation, otherwise we should also blame obesity on the increase of personal computers; there is a similar correlation). These people also usually omit the fact that obesity is also on the rise in other (prosperous) countries where HFCS is not commonly used. There's no denying that obesity is tied to overconsumption in general, but it's doubtful that one single ingredient (HFCS) which is chemically indistinguishable to your body from another ingredient that's been around for centuries (sugar) is entirely to blame; in fact it's ridiculous.

    If you are capable of understanding some simple facts of chemistry, you should be able to understand that HFCS is no worse (or better) for you than sugar (which in itself is probably fodder for a whole new thread).
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  12. #12
    I fear angry birds Santaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'nother
    ... Another mistake that the "HFCS is bad" people make is a false correlation of increase in HFCS consumption with obesity. The correlation is there, but correlation does not prove causation, otherwise we should also blame obesity on the increase of personal computers; there is a similar correlation). These people also usually omit the fact that obesity is also on the rise in other (prosperous) countries where HFCS is not commonly used. There's no denying that obesity is tied to overconsumption in general, but it's doubtful that one single ingredient (HFCS) which is chemically indistinguishable to your body from another ingredient that's been around for centuries (sugar) is entirely to blame; in fact it's ridiculous ...
    Hey 'nother, long time no see

    Erm...I think that it could easily be proven that ownership of a PC can be a causation of obesity as well. Let me explain.

    If you sit in front of a PC, you typically lose track of time; my personal experience and its broad is that playing games, etc. on a computer tends to lead to eating quick foods and drinking sodas. All correlation, but I don't think you can simply say:

    Sugar isn't bad.
    HFCS isn't bad.

    You've made a connection between prosperous nations and obesity, but you've omitted the fact that most prosperous nations have removed themselves from a more limited diet. They've access to HFCS and PCs whereas the Third World nation is still subsisting on a high-grain diet. They typically don't have sodas and honey buns available to them in 45 vending machines within a 2 block radius. They have fewer 7-11s and other convience stores and certainly they view 'sweets' as a novelty. Logically, this is not a false arguement and sadly, its part of the causation you've mentioned earlier.

    Further, prosperity allows us (the rich) to own personal computers, which connects above to my point that a great majority of folks don't sit around on forums chatting about their obsession with their health and bicycles. That's really limited to us - and those who choose to ride and not debate the technic aspects of HFCS and its affect on the general pop.

    EDIT: You could also take the X-Files mentality and add the theory that the third world countries that typically produce a lot of the HFCS items that we consume are trying to kill us - but this would be accurate in a causation and correlative debate as well, because it can be proven "if x then y is" arguement.

    THE DEVIL

    Originally Posted by Scrodzilla
    If that was my house and you put your stupid bike in my flower garden to take a picture, I would come outside in my underwear and light you on fire.

  13. #13
    semifreddo amartuerer 'nother's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santaria
    I don't think you can simply say:

    Sugar isn't bad.
    HFCS isn't bad.
    Actually what I said was that HFCS is not any worse (or better) for you than sugar. I am not saying sugar is good or bad for you.

    As to the "technical details"; they're actually pretty simple to understand, even with a limited education:

    Sugar (sucrose) is composed of 1 molecule of fructose bound to 1 molecule of glucose. The bond is very rapidly dissolved by your saliva and digestive acids into its components: one molecule fructose and one molecule glucose.

    HFCS is a mixture of "free" fructose and glucose (e.g. they are not bound together). The mixture is roughly 1/2 and 1/2, depending upon the formulation. So, like sucrose, the ratio of fructose to glucose molecules is roughly 1:1 as far as your body knows.


    As such, blaming the composition of HFCS as being "bad" is only valid in the minds of those who might also believe some of those X-files theories you mention.


    Again, I'm not trying to say that HFCS is good or bad for you; merely that it is no worse or better for you than other sugars (white/brown sugar, honey, maple syrup, etc. which are all basically the same: 50-50 fructose/glucose).

    Now, there are plenty of reasons to believe that an excess of simpler sugars may cause health problems. I'm not debating that. The question was whether to avoid HFCS, presumably singling that out from other sugars, and based on my understanding of these "technical" details, it makes no sense to avoid HFCS while replacing it with another sugar.

    It might not be a bad idea to avoid all sugars. But don't think you are doing yourself any favors by selecting products that use "evaporated cane juice" (hilarious) instead of HFCS . . . as far as your body knows, they are the same thing.



    Edit: I did not really get the "long time no see" comment until I did a little research. Welcome back, and best of luck to you!
    Last edited by 'nother; 06-25-06 at 01:39 PM.
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