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  1. #26
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    There are supplements that can help with low testosterone, some natural, and some not-so-natural + illegal for competition. One of the problems with replacement therapy is that your body quits making it's own. I'm not trying to make a case against TRT, but if it were me I'd certainly exhaust all other avenues before becoming dependent on the synthetic variety.

  2. #27
    Junior Member NeilMyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    One of the problems with replacement therapy is that your body quits making it's own.
    One could argue that at a total T level in the sub 200 range, that has already happened for the most part.

    I was never able to find any supplements that actually had an effect on T levels.

    From the research I have done, the body will start producing T if you stop replacement therapy, at the same anemic levels (perhaps slightly lower as you have aged a bit more by then).

  3. #28
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    I read that cheating on your wife with a younger woman will also increase your T level. seriously.

    this is not to be confused with leaving your wife for a younger woman. in that case they say you will bore of the new woman and T levels will drop again.

    ideally, you would keep a new woman in the mix at all times.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  4. #29
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    I read that cheating on your wife with a younger woman will also increase your T level. seriously.

    this is not to be confused with leaving your wife for a younger woman. in that case they say you will bore of the new woman and T levels will drop again.

    ideally, you would keep a new woman in the mix at all times.
    I'd try that, but...I don't have a wife to cheat on.

  5. #30
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    There is also the issue that no one really knows what the long term effects of synthetic replacement are...
    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/1...oblems-deaths/

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    So...anybody out there dealing with this issue a few years after a radical prostatectomy ?

  7. #32
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    I'd try that, but...I don't have a wife to cheat on.
    in that case just a woman would do. part of what I read in fact the gist of the article was how men confuse the boost in testosterone with love. you only need to hook up or maybe just have a flirtatious relationship with a woman who poses a promise of a relationship to enjoy the benefits of higher T levels, but be careful not to confuse it with love
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  8. #33
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    There is also the issue that no one really knows what the long term effects of synthetic replacement are...
    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/1...oblems-deaths/

    very true. but you have to consider if you'd rather take that chance or live with the effects of low testosterone which, some may argue, are worse. It's a personal choice that will vary from person to person. There are pros/cons for each.

  9. #34
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    I think anyone that has low levels or is over 43 and not juicing is nuts.

    3 things to remember:

    1. DOCTORS do not know it all
    2. YOU are more interested in your own well being that he is.
    3. YOU are able, with a bit of reading know more about hormone replacement and aging that almost all GPs and even some specialists because you have you at stake.

    WHY put yourself thru depression, fatness, and no sex drive?

    BUT I think most doctors are idiots when it comes to testing, measuring and dosages- its not a one size fits all thing.

    Things like this really matter:
    -type of steroid, yes they are very, very different from- I want to rip your ear off (halotestin) to getting cut very safely winstrol.
    -genetic predisposition- get tested do the 23 and me test- match it up with athletics- see if you are going to drop dead a 50 if so- screw fitness- go have some fun. Side benefit is getting new relatives- find out how/what runs in their family - ask them if any are super fit - what did they do.

    -whether or not you have a tendency for gyno (which is a real pain to get rid of- surgery but only and 30 cents a day to prevent- arimdex which you should be on anyways)
    -baldness- if you are bald or don't care about hair then go for straight testosterone-(DHT inhibitors will not help and will actually hurt you in the long run)
    -GH- growth hormone - how much are you putting out now? this is the main thing that should be supplemented first
    -Thyroid (t3 and t4 test for as well as free T3)- most depressed people have low thyroid- dirt cheap to test and pennies a day to fix- plus it burns fat and is safe.
    -Insulin- if your sensitivity is off then its like towing a motorhome with a Camry- figure out how to fix this yourself.
    -Cholesterol- if this is already high- then its going to go higher regardless of diet, etc. you may have to concede on going on a statin because testosterone doesn't help.
    -Intelligence- if you work you are competing against younger more healthy competitors- Testosterone actually increases intelligence.
    -Confidence- this, for me is priceless- think about massive confidence- you look better, feel better and f**k better than other men your age.
    -Sex drive- this combined with cialis- incredible, no more half mast for you, its going full salute.


    Ideally, the safe way is to take a year to try and fix naturally- but remember that a shot a week is the quick fix and you ain't gettin' younger.

    The 'merican way is to shotgun and do everything all at once. I like the 'merican way- just get the tests first and keep the diet really clean drink lots of h2o.
    Last edited by reg; 11-16-13 at 03:44 PM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    There is also the issue that no one really knows what the long term effects of synthetic replacement are...
    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/1...oblems-deaths/
    Doctors do tend to be pretty conservative with TRT, much to their patient's detriment. A study on TRT for men who began with severe heart disease is hardly applicable to the general population. My understanding is that LOW TESTOSTERONE is a significant risk factor for heart disease, stroke and diabetes. One thing I've learned is that for every study saying one thing, you can find an equally convincing study saying the exact opposite (generally speaking, here).

    When making the decision to pursue TRT I did some serious soul searching. As so eloquently stated by Neil Young (and quoted by "The Kurgan")......."It's better to burn out than to fade away.........". I'd rather have 5, 10 or 15 good years than 20, 15 or even ONE year of the way I felt when my T bottomed out. In fact, I don't think I would make it a year. It's THAT bad.
    Currently riding a 1995 Trek 730 Multitrack converted to 26" wheels.

  11. #36
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    There is a downside to testosterone boosting. I ended up with way too many red blood cells. The doc had me donate a pint to thin it out to a safe level and stop the T booster. The danger is blood clots or becoming dehydrated and thickening the blood. Scary

  12. #37
    reg
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    no the neglect to drink water is on you. all steroids produce extra blood- sometimes up to 1L if you read basic info you would have known this and have prevented it.

    THE doctors know nothing- less than your average personal trainer about this stuff- its actually doctors making patents think that they know everything and people like yourself believing this.

    THAT, is scary. Doctors are the worst people you can you can find to do HRT, as they are idiots with a perscription pad and a white coat. It is not a take 2x daily with meals type drug, it requires much learning or consulting with an actual expert in hormone replacement or even better hormone enhancement./ Find an expert, pay him well, and get great advice- like taking your somewhat sporty car to a performance
    shop and getting it done up right. or like wanting to compete with a wally world bike. thats the level of knowledge doctors have about this- wally world.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalnc View Post
    I recently had my testosterone checked. I'm 43 and it came back at 399 total, 9.3 free. Doctor says it's normal. Everything I've read said average for my age is over 600. I only ride 2 or 3 times a week; and if I ride 3 times a week I never feel like I've recovered. Even my upper body workouts have become impossible.

    anyone around my age get tested and what were the results/outcomes? did you use prescription or over the counter supplements? what kind of results?
    If you are having symptoms of low testosterone, even if you are low in the normal range, you should be evaluated for treatment. Some doctors refuse to treat if you are low in the normal range. Others are happy to treat you if you have the symptoms.

    I was low for years, but didn't know what was wrong. My wife even noticed, but didn't say anything thinking something was wrong with her rather than me. Eventually my family doctor figured it out and referred me to an endocrinologist. He treated me, at first with Androgel. Within a week to 10 days, I felt like a teenager again. It has been a journey and there is a different specialist now.

    Try another doctor if one is available to you. If you can get a specialist, like an endocrinologist or urologist, things may go better for you. With good treatment, you will notice a big difference in your life.

    Edit to add that I know of nobody who has used OTC supplements and seen big differences in T-levels.

  14. #39
    Senior Member Wildwood's Avatar
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    at 62 years, I have now tested below 300 (latest = 266 total 7.9 free) for 3rd time, over the span of 16 months. From the little that I had read, I chose injections over creams and was prescribed 200 mg every 2 weeks.

    Is there an advantage of weekly injections over every 2 weeks?
    '81 Austro Daimler Olympian, '86 Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, '87 DeRosa Professional, '99 Calfee TetraPro, '03(?) Macalu Cirrus, '04 Tallerico, '97 Co-Motion Tandem

  15. #40
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post

    Is there an advantage of weekly injections over every 2 weeks?
    depending on what you're using and the dosage, I'd say a weekly injection allows levels to stay closer to a baseline instead of peaking after the injection and then dropping for 2 weeks.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
    at 62 years, I have now tested below 300 (latest = 266 total 7.9 free) for 3rd time, over the span of 16 months. From the little that I had read, I chose injections over creams and was prescribed 200 mg every 2 weeks.

    Is there an advantage of weekly injections over every 2 weeks?
    If you were prescribed testosterone cypionate, it has a half-life of about 7 days. If you inject weekly, you'll have more even testosterone levels and will aromatize less of what you are injecting into estrogen. Among those who are injecting and are informed, most inject weekly. Many doctors don't seem to be up on the latest and best treatment regimens though. My endocrinologist was one of those. He went by the wayside. My urologist seems to be better informed.

  17. #42
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Twice weekly is working MUCH better for me.
    With weekly, the sags were unpleasant.
    Fat is falling off.

    Topical?
    Some are non absorbers, like me.
    Compounded was not covered by insurance was about $15 for cream at 10%...

    If you ask me Androgel is near criminal negligence. $400/month for the worst dosages delivered in nearly the worst possible way (for everyone, not just non absorbers). But marketing trumps all.

  18. #43
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    Testosterone Cyprionate IM users- WHAT DOSE are you getting? How often?
    Dose is EVERYTHING-so we need actual doses.
    Thanks
    Charlie

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Twice weekly is working MUCH better for me.
    With weekly, the sags were unpleasant.
    Fat is falling off.

    Topical?
    Some are non absorbers, like me.
    Compounded was not covered by insurance was about $15 for cream at 10%...

    If you ask me Androgel is near criminal negligence. $400/month for the worst dosages delivered in nearly the worst possible way (for everyone, not just non absorbers). But marketing trumps all.
    hey Null--I'm looking for a good doctor. any recommendations? I'm in Fuquay

  20. #45
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalnc View Post
    hey Null--I'm looking for a good doctor. any recommendations? I'm in Fuquay
    Good, no. as good as it gets... yes.. will pm

  21. #46
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
    Testosterone Cyprionate IM users- WHAT DOSE are you getting? How often?
    Dose is EVERYTHING-so we need actual doses.
    Thanks
    Charlie
    About 1000-1500mg/week should put some lead in your pencil...

    From what I've read, 100-200 mg/week is normal for TRT. I've tested low-ish a couple times and looked into it. I still want to race a bit and don't want to go the pin-cushion route (which seems like the best option, by far), so I've tried to do things that will help my T levels while still being WADA legal.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  22. #47
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    Fat Boy
    Thanks
    Years ago I read a study- IM Test for male birth control-it was 200 twice a week-so 100-200 wk-about right

  23. #48
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reg View Post
    I think anyone that has low levels or is over 43 and not juicing is nuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
    Fat Boy
    Thanks
    Years ago I read a study- IM Test for male birth control-it was 200 twice a week-so 100-200 wk-about right
    At the end of the day, I have to wonder if reg isn't ultimately correct.

    I take vitamin D, try to get good sleep, eat in a manner that would encourage T production, reduced riding a bit and do some weight lifting. There are probably all sorts of other things to try, but these seem to be biggies. You're not going to get the levels that you would if you went on a good TRT, but I think it will get you a bit of a boost.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  24. #49
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    Recent study indicated that Low T treatment "might" increase MI risk.
    No doubt DOSE is important-small dose maybe no big deal or even "good"
    Bigger doses-increased risk-probably

    Bet those PED-ed Seattle defensive back-big tall and fast-are jucing right to the edge-Unfortunately my Saints apparently are playing it straight-not juicing or not jucing "well enough"
    Guessing Seattle will beat us like a drum again.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by corwin1968 View Post

    Here is a link that explains the symptoms of Low T VERY well:

    http://www.lowtcenter.com/symptoms

    Dang out of those 9 points -- I am hitting on 7 of them , everything except the ED and muscle loss. I almost hate to get tested for fear I am going to be put on some kind of expensive "therapy" I can hardly afford

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