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  1. #376
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    A long, long time ago, this thread started by talking about the new cholesterol guidelines issued by the American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology...

    Initially the new standards were warmly welcomed -- until people actually looked at them. Then they started to turn. But the AHA/ACC continue to defend their new standards aggressively.

    Now, one more group has joined in the fray:

    Endocrinology Group Rejects New AHA/ACC CVD Guidelines

    Miriam E. Tucker
    December 13, 2013


    The American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE) says it can't support the new cardiovascular risk guidelines issued by the American Heart Association (AHA) and the American College of Cardiology (ACC), saying the set of 4 guideline documents is out of step with its own recommendations.
    "AACE was asked to review and endorse the obesity and cholesterol guidelines. After careful consideration by the appropriate scientific committees of our organization, AACE declined to endorse these new cholesterol and obesity guidelines," the organization said in a statement that was sent to its members in November and forwarded to the media today. "There are multiple reasons for this decision, including, principally, the incompatibility of these new guidelines with our existing guidelines."
    The 4 guidelines are:


    All of the guidelines were issued with the support of the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, which had last updated its Adult Treatment Panel 3 (ATP3) National Cholesterol Education Panel (NCEP) guidelines for cholesterol and lipid management in 2004. AACE had "generally agreed" with those guidelines.

    AACE welcomes the intent of the AHA and ACC in the creation of these new guidelines but cannot endorse them.
    The endocrinology group faults the new AHA/ACC guidelines for focusing exclusively on randomized clinical trials and for not including studies published since 2011. "They are highly restrictive regarding the database considered and omit much new information… Taken together, these actions have resulted in a considerable number of at-risk patients being omitted from consideration."
    And, AACE says that the new cardiovascular disease calculator that was published along with the guidelines—and generated the most controversy—is already outdated. "It is based upon outmoded data, does not model the totality of the US population, has not been validated, and therefore has only limited applicability."
    As for new lipid guidelines, AACE disagrees with removal of the LDL targets and the idea that statin therapy alone is sufficient for all at-risk patients, noting that many who have multiple risk factors, including diabetes and established heart disease, will need additional therapies.
    Finally, the new obesity guidelines, AACE says, "fail to classify obesity as a disease and continue the paradigm of [body-mass-index] BMI-centric risk stratification, both of which are contrary to recently stated AACE positions." In addition, newly FDA-approved weight-loss medications are not included.
    The statement concludes, "AACE welcomes the intent of the AHA and ACC in the creation of these new guidelines but does not agree with the complete content and therefore cannot endorse them."

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    After all of this, I doubt that any physician will be following these new guidelines. But, you never know. So, Be Warned!
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  2. #377
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    george - My wife has endocrine issues as she has no thyroid and has to take supplemental and synthetic thyroid medications to regulate her body.

    The low carb, high fat diet she has been enjoying has made her absorption of these medications much better in addition to causing quite the incredible weight loss and getting her some really good test numbers at her physical.

    She does not count calories and maintains a decent level of activity through walking daily and her job keeps her moving as well but she has not been doing any rigorous exercise.... although we have not checked I am sure her weight loss is now pushing 50 pounds since August and she is almost back to her pre-surgery weight.

    If I posted before and after pictures you'd be stunned... I am stunned on a daily basis and so happy that this is working so well as she feels so much better. She is not a tiny woman and her normal curvy weight is 160-170 pounds and even at a higher weight she carries that well but it kills her hips and is not good for long term joint health.

    Although I don't do it often I ran the numbers on our food intake yesterday and we each took in 2300 calories where the fat was 174 grams, the protein was 70 grams, and carbs for me were 54 grams while she stayed below 20 grams to maintain ketosis... this would be a pretty typical day here for both of us although the protein was a little higher than normal due to the bacon and eggs we enjoyed for breakfast (not a daily thing).

    Our bulletproof coffee is 2-4 tablespoons of butter and coconut oil mixed with coffee and a generous amount of 18% table cream with a little vanilla for taste... this is 200-400 calories with no carbs and the medium chain trigylcerides in the coconut oil behave differently from other fats in that they get converted directly into energy while other fats take a little more processing.

    From a metabolic point of view, processing fats requires fewer digestive enzymes than glucose and think this is where the extra benefit for her comes in.

    My thermos is full of BPC for my afternoon ride... these are calories I will drink.

  3. #378
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    george - My wife has endocrine issues as she has no thyroid and has to take supplemental and synthetic thyroid medications to regulate her body.

    The low carb, high fat diet she has been enjoying has made her absorption of these medications much better in addition to causing quite the incredible weight loss and getting her some really good test numbers at her physical.

    She does not count calories and maintains a decent level of activity through walking daily and her job keeps her moving as well but she has not been doing any rigorous exercise.... although we have not checked I am sure her weight loss is now pushing 50 pounds since August and she is almost back to her pre-surgery weight.

    If I posted before and after pictures you'd be stunned... I am stunned on a daily basis and so happy that this is working so well as she feels so much better. She is not a tiny woman and her normal curvy weight is 160-170 pounds and even at a higher weight she carries that well but it kills her hips and is not good for long term joint health.

    Although I don't do it often I ran the numbers on our food intake yesterday and we each took in 2300 calories where the fat was 174 grams, the protein was 70 grams, and carbs for me were 54 grams while she stayed below 20 grams to maintain ketosis... this would be a pretty typical day here for both of us although the protein was a little higher than normal due to the bacon and eggs we enjoyed for breakfast (not a daily thing).

    Our bulletproof coffee is 2-4 tablespoons of butter and coconut oil mixed with coffee and a generous amount of 18% table cream with a little vanilla for taste... this is 200-400 calories with no carbs and the medium chain trigylcerides in the coconut oil behave differently from other fats in that they get converted directly into energy while other fats take a little more processing.

    From a metabolic point of view, processing fats requires fewer digestive enzymes than glucose and think this is where the extra benefit for her comes in.

    My thermos is full of BPC for my afternoon ride... these are calories I will drink.
    I agree that a high protein diet is more conducive to weight loss -- and I do not want to take anything away from that...

    But, 50 pounds in 4 months is a LOT of weight. I have to wonder if some of that could be due to going from hypothyroidism to euthyroidism or even hyperthyroidism?
    ... I assume that she is having her levels checked regularly, so it's probably not a problem. But I just thought I would bring it up.

    But, in any event -- I am very glad to hear that she is doing so very well! And I do not doubt that a large part of the credit goes to the great support she receives...
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  4. #379
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    I agree that a high protein diet is more conducive to weight loss -- and I do not want to take anything away from that...

    But, 50 pounds in 4 months is a LOT of weight. I have to wonder if some of that could be due to going from hypothyroidism to euthyroidism or even hyperthyroidism?
    ... I assume that she is having her levels checked regularly, so it's probably not a problem. But I just thought I would bring it up.

    But, in any event -- I am very glad to hear that she is doing so very well! And I do not doubt that a large part of the credit goes to the great support she receives...
    It is actually a high fat diet.

    This happened over 5 months and she started cutting her already low carb intake back in April but the change happened when she almost zero'd them out... last time we checked it was 41 pounds lost and she is looking even slimmer and this warranted thyroid testing at her physical.

    Her thyroid numbers were fine when she had them tested... as she is switching to a new generic brand here in Canada she will have to re-test to see how well the new brand is absorbed before any adjustments get made.

  5. #380
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Would you agree that some amount of fasting can produce positive adaptations?
    No, and I've read maybe 5 pages of this thread and gotten very little out of it I could process well, not to mention the bickering isn't goping anywhere really.

    I'm glad that everybody is so scientifically well-read but I have to wonder why I stopped by the barbershop, so to speak. I get Sixty-Fiver's drift but I'm not bound to get up at 4 am to set up the milking barn anymore like I did when I was 17. Looking back thirty years on I'd have to say it was the best job I ever had, but it wasn't meant to last as it was on a foster home farm. I was overweight then as well but I was still spry and able and willing to get up and feed the cattle.

    Still, I still get so little from the conversation as it's next to unintelligible but I hope you figure it out.
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  6. #381
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
    No, and I've read maybe 5 pages of this thread and gotten very little out of it I could process well, not to mention the bickering isn't goping anywhere really.

    I'm glad that everybody is so scientifically well-read but I have to wonder why I stopped by the barbershop, so to speak. I get Sixty-Fiver's drift but I'm not bound to get up at 4 am to set up the milking barn anymore like I did when I was 17. Looking back thirty years on I'd have to say it was the best job I ever had, but it wasn't meant to last as it was on a foster home farm. I was overweight then as well but I was still spry and able and willing to get up and feed the cattle.

    Still, I still get so little from the conversation as it's next to unintelligible but I hope you figure it out.
    I am sorry that you did not get much from the thread. But, as shown by the way it expanded and grew from the original topic, you can see that many people are very much interested in the area...

    For myself, I too am very much interested in the topic of health and nutrition -- but I see that there are many opinions on the subject and most are backed up by some degree of 'scientific' research. I suspect that most of the opinions share some degree of the complete truth. So, I enjoyed reading the many different opinions and learned from them. Like you, I cannot say that I understood all that was written, but I still found much of it helpful...
    --------------------------------------
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  7. #382
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Ok, back...what did I miss? Nevermind.

    GeorgeB, with respect to 65'ers wife's diet: To be ketogenic, you restrict carbs (25-50g/day), but you also restrict protein (50-100g/day). Because of glycogenesis, excess protein will be converted to glucose and your body will burn that instead of creating ketone bodies from stored fat. So at the end of the day, you end up somewhere near 80% of your diet as fat.

    It's also worth noting, that when you add fat to coffee or tea, the fat somehow (not sure about the mechanism) affects the transport of the caffeine. It seems to be a little stronger, but also longer released. I don't know if caffeine is fat soluable or there's something else going on, but there is definitely an effect. Maybe that's why people started putting cream in their coffee in the first place.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  8. #383
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Ok, back...what did I miss? Nevermind.

    GeorgeB, with respect to 65'ers wife's diet: To be ketogenic, you restrict carbs (25-50g/day), but you also restrict protein (50-100g/day). Because of glycogenesis, excess protein will be converted to glucose and your body will burn that instead of creating ketone bodies from stored fat. So at the end of the day, you end up somewhere near 80% of your diet as fat.

    It's also worth noting, that when you add fat to coffee or tea, the fat somehow (not sure about the mechanism) affects the transport of the caffeine. It seems to be a little stronger, but also longer released. I don't know if caffeine is fat soluable or there's something else going on, but there is definitely an effect. Maybe that's why people started putting cream in their coffee in the first place.
    50-100g of protein does not seem like much of a restriction...

    My understanding is that the RDA for protein is 0.8 gram / kg. For me, that works out to 68 grams / day...

    ... But, for many Americans, that would be a severe restriction.
    --------------------------------------
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  9. #384
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    50-100g of protein does not seem like much of a restriction...

    My understanding is that the RDA for protein is 0.8 gram / kg. For me, that works out to 68 grams / day...

    ... But, for many Americans, that would be a severe restriction.
    I really don't know if it's a restriction for 65'ers wife or not. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Regardless, the point is that a ketogenic diet by definition is not a 'high protein' diet, rather high fat. At, what, <15% of total calories, the RDA recommendation is not a high protein diet by most people's estimation, either. I would guess that 68g of protein would be fine for a large swath of the population, but if you have athletic tendencies, that would be considered a bit skinny by most.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    GeorgeB, with respect to 65'ers wife's diet: To be ketogenic, you restrict carbs (25-50g/day), but you also restrict protein (50-100g/day). Because of glycogenesis, excess protein will be converted to glucose and your body will burn that instead of creating ketone bodies from stored fat. So at the end of the day, you end up somewhere near 80% of your diet as fat.
    50-100g of protein does seem low for a ketogenic diet. When you cut out carbs all you're left with is fat and protein and limiting protein that much would seemingly make things difficult. There's a video on Youtube where Peter Attia says not to exceed 250g of protein a day on a ketogenic diet for the same reason you site (glycogenesis.)

  11. #386
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Ok, back...what did I miss? Nevermind.

    GeorgeB, with respect to 65'ers wife's diet: To be ketogenic, you restrict carbs (25-50g/day), but you also restrict protein (50-100g/day). Because of glycogenesis, excess protein will be converted to glucose and your body will burn that instead of creating ketone bodies from stored fat. So at the end of the day, you end up somewhere near 80% of your diet as fat.

    It's also worth noting, that when you add fat to coffee or tea, the fat somehow (not sure about the mechanism) affects the transport of the caffeine. It seems to be a little stronger, but also longer released. I don't know if caffeine is fat soluble or there's something else going on, but there is definitely an effect. Maybe that's why people started putting cream in their coffee in the first place.
    Ketosis can be achieved by many people on a regimen of < 100g carbs / day... this is the threshold for your brain which needs 100 grams of carbs a day to function but in the absence of carbs it will readily use ketones for fuel.

    During fat adaption your body will want to convert protein into glucose but once that is done the brain will run on ketones while your body will use free fatty acids (triglycerides) as it's primary fuel source.

    During the adaptive phase 150 grams of protein per day is advised and once adapted you can consume less protein to maintain muscle mass, we probably range between 50-75 grams of protein a day.

    Adaptation does not take long, in a few weeks your body will be burning fat as fuel... in essence you are suppressing the body's insulin response who's purpose is to block the utilization of fats and to store excess glucose (as fat).

    Nothing is set in stone here... people who are more active can benefit from a higher protein intake and a slightly higher carb intake.

    As for caloric restrictions, we seem to self limit at around 2300 calories a day and don't believe that calorie reduced or fat reduced diets are nearly as effective for weight loss and find that a low carb diet has been very good for our overall health.

  12. #387
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Ketosis can be achieved by many people on a regimen of < 100g carbs / day... this is the threshold for your brain which needs 100 grams of carbs a day to function but in the absence of carbs it will readily use ketones for fuel.

    During fat adaption your body will want to convert protein into glucose but once that is done the brain will run on ketones while your body will use free fatty acids (triglycerides) as it's primary fuel source.

    During the adaptive phase 150 grams of protein per day is advised and once adapted you can consume less protein to maintain muscle mass, we probably range between 50-75 grams of protein a day.

    Adaptation does not take long, in a few weeks your body will be burning fat as fuel... in essence you are suppressing the body's insulin response who's purpose is to block the utilization of fats and to store excess glucose (as fat).

    Nothing is set in stone here... people who are more active can benefit from a higher protein intake and a slightly higher carb intake.

    As for caloric restrictions, we seem to self limit at around 2300 calories a day and don't believe that calorie reduced or fat reduced diets are nearly as effective for weight loss and find that a low carb diet has been very good for our overall health.
    OK, thanks for the explanation...

    But one thing: My understanding is that the primary purpose of insulin is move glucose into the muscles so it can be used as energy. It may also transport it into adipose tissue as well -- that would be reasonable to assume.

    I first heard that listening to the low-carb people but, I've never seen anything scientific or medical to validate it... But it does seem to be central to that dietary philosophy (at least in terms of weight loss)...
    --------------------------------------
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  13. #388
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Scurvy is one of the dangers of long term ketogenic diets.. Eating fruits and veggies rich in vitamin C is very important...Vitamin C pills and supplements are not the solution, fresh fruits and veggies are best.

  14. #389
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    OK, thanks for the explanation...

    But one thing: My understanding is that the primary purpose of insulin is move glucose into the muscles so it can be used as energy. It may also transport it into adipose tissue as well -- that would be reasonable to assume.

    I first heard that listening to the low-carb people but, I've never seen anything scientific or medical to validate it... But it does seem to be central to that dietary philosophy (at least in terms of weight loss)...
    It is a lesson in biochemistry to know how this all works...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_respiration

    Quite simply, insulin converts glucose into ATP (energy) but excess gets stored as adipose tissue (fat).

    My wife just checked the scale and she is down 7 more pounds in the past three weeks... when she was in college studying biochemistry they were still teaching that the human body could not produce it's own glucose without carbs but this has now been shown to be false.

  15. #390
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Scurvy is one of the dangers of long term ketogenic diets.. Eating fruits and veggies rich in vitamin C is very important...Vitamin C pills and supplements are not the solution, fresh fruits and veggies are best.
    We get most of our C from veggies and organ meats... I also take a daily multi-vitamin to ensure I am getting all those micronutrients.

  16. #391
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    It is a lesson in biochemistry to know how this all works...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_respiration

    Quite simply, insulin converts glucose into ATP (energy) but excess gets stored as adipose tissue (fat).

    My wife just checked the scale and she is down 7 more pounds in the past three weeks... when she was in college studying biochemistry they were still teaching that the human body could not produce it's own glucose without carbs but this has now been shown to be false.
    Yes, I was familiar with the respiration thing -- I got a lesson in it from the statin I've been taking when it reduced my levels of Q10 (which is necessary for the mitochondria to produce ATP) and I had no strength. As soon as I added a Q10 supplement, I got strong enough to pull a muscle (probably the medial glut)... My next step is to get off of the statin -- but I'm still waiting for the doctor to call me back on that one...

    Tell your wife congrats on the weight loss. But also be careful -- she is losing a lot of weight very quickly. So, while too much weight is bad, losing it too quickly is not good either...
    --------------------------------------
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  17. #392
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    Yes, I was familiar with the respiration thing -- I got a lesson in it from the statin I've been taking when it reduced my levels of Q10 (which is necessary for the mitochondria to produce ATP) and I had no strength. As soon as I added a Q10 supplement, I got strong enough to pull a muscle (probably the medial glut)... My next step is to get off of the statin -- but I'm still waiting for the doctor to call me back on that one...

    Tell your wife congrats on the weight loss. But also be careful -- she is losing a lot of weight very quickly. So, while too much weight is bad, losing it too quickly is not good either...
    Most people experience slightly higher than average weight loss on low carb / ketonic diets... she is losing weight at a rate of just over 2 pounds per week and she is on no caloric restrictions whatsoever and would say her activity level is actually a little less than usual as she has not been cycling very much because of abominable weather.

    Part of that stems from the amount of water contained in fat molecules... when you burn those you lose water weight as well.

    The issues with Q10 are well known with statins... organ meats can offset that although you have to be able to ignore the fat and cholesterol content.

    I just had a cup of bulletproof coffee and am going for a ride in the snow on the fixed gear... should be a good workout.


  18. #393
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    I just had a cup of bulletproof coffee and am going for a ride in the snow on the fixed gear... should be a good workout.

    Do you actually notice any difference between bulletproof and regular coffee ??..I've heard of it but never tried it yet, I just use regular coffee with coconut oil or butter.

  19. #394
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Do you actually notice any difference between bulletproof and regular coffee ??..I've heard of it but never tried it yet, I just use regular coffee with coconut oil or butter.
    I use salted butter and coconut oil, heavy cream, and vanilla... even without blending the mix of coconut oil and butter blends nicely and it's a 200-300 calorie cup of coffee that tastes delicious, adds a little needed salt, and the MCT metabolizes very quickly for a great energy boost.

    Every tablespoon of butter / coconut oil is 100 calories... and there is always at least one of each depending on the cup size.

    Had a great ride ion the snow tonight... my back has been twitchy and I felt rather good on the fixed gear mountain bike slogging through the snow and this is some intense exercise.

  20. #395
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    Tell me Sixty-Fiver, where did you get your qualifications as a nutritionist and dietitian?
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  21. #396
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Tell me Sixty-Fiver, where did you get your qualifications as a nutritionist and dietitian?
    I don't think we have any resident nutritionists here... but more importantly, what's your point ?

  22. #397
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Tell me Sixty-Fiver, where did you get your qualifications as a nutritionist and dietitian?
    Not one person in this thread has made any claims to be a nutritionis, doctor or sciencist. The replys in this thread are based upon personal experiences and what works for each individual. No one says that their way of eating is the absolute...Nutritionists and dieticians are not Gods they don't have all the answers.
    Last edited by wolfchild; 12-17-13 at 03:54 AM.

  23. #398
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Not one person in this thread has made any claims to be a nutritionist, doctor or scientist. The replies in this thread are based upon personal experiences and what works for each individual. No one says that their way of eating is the absolute...Nutritionists and dieticians are not Gods they don't have all the answers.
    Anecdotal evidence can be useful but I prefer hard science and research as it gives a better overall picture of the efficacy of certain diets.

    I can tell you my wife has lost 48 pounds and report that we simply feel much better on a carb reduced diet and don't feel deprived in any way.

    Because of all the information I have looked at and because of professional experience I am pretty convinced that calorie restricted diets are rather ineffective while changing what you eat and making sure you get adequate calories to match your activity needs is a far better solution.

    If weight loss is a goal then one needs to understand that one has to reset their metabolism and get that engine burning fat and as long as you keep feeding it sugar / carbs the insulin response will make that extremely difficult and for some, virtually impossible.

    This has been known for a very long time.

    It does not matter what form those carbs come in... they all get turned into sugar and create a need for insulin which blocks fat use.

    I am trained as a rehabilitation practitioner and worked in this field for a very long time... research was a large component of the job and I was responsible to take care of the health needs of many individuals which included menu planning and in many cases, creating specialized diets to treat various conditions including diabetes, celiac disease, and behavioural and congenital issues that often respond well to dietary improvements.

    I worked with doctors, therapists, and nutritionists, and dieticians and our models were adopted on a broad scale as we were very successful in helping our clients get fitter and healthier.

  24. #399
    aka Phil Jungels Wanderer's Avatar
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    Against my advice, my wife's doctor put her in statins for cholesteral control.

    I had a severe reaction to statins a few years back, after taking them for a few years.

    my wife was on statins for about 1.5 yrs.

    A couple weeks back she started having muscle pain, and it got so bad, so quickly, that she could hardly get out of bed, and had extreme pain just walking. She stopped the statin, and called her doctor, who agreed.

    she is now on vicodin, and heavy duty ibuprofin to make it possible to do anything. The pain is letting up very, very, slowly, but still cant function without the pain pills.........

    this is a very, very, very, bad drug. Absolutely everyone I know who has been on them, developed a problem, some more severe than others.......

    Ask your doctor if there is anything else you can take, before trying statins........... mho

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  25. #400
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Against my advice, my wife's doctor put her in statins for cholesteral control.

    I had a severe reaction to statins a few years back, after taking them for a few years.

    my wife was on statins for about 1.5 yrs.

    A couple weeks back she started having muscle pain, and it got so bad, so quickly, that she could hardly get out of bed, and had extreme pain just walking. She stopped the statin, and called her doctor, who agreed.

    she is now on vicodin, and heavy duty ibuprofin to make it possible to do anything. The pain is letting up very, very, slowly, but still cant function without the pain pills.........

    this is a very, very, very, bad drug. Absolutely everyone I know who has been on them, developed a problem, some more severe than others.......

    Ask your doctor if there is anything else you can take, before trying statins........... mho
    The doctor should have done more than 'just agree'...

    He should have seen her and run tests -- at least a CK to determine if it was myopathy...

    ... It is well accepted that muscle problems usually resolve quickly once the statin is stopped (at least that's what the drug companies tell us!). But, the danger is that your wife's pain is coming from something other than the statin.

    I don't mean that as a defense of the statin. Just a caution to make sure you know what is going on....
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