Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 75
  1. #26
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    2012 Trek DS 8.5 all weather hybrid, 2008 LeMond Poprad cyclocross, 1992 Cannondale R500 roadbike
    Posts
    1,809
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    We haven't even mentioned chronic inflammation. This is often related to metabolic syndrome and has a huge negative effect on arterial walls among other things. We don't know if this guy has dealt with either chronic inflammation or metabolic syndrome, but it's worth asking the question.

    Certainly, continuous, long-duration aerobic exercise can feed into an inflammatory state. A diet that induces high insulin levels is generally associated with metabolic syndrome and systemic inflammation. This isn't caused by "hardcore steak and potatoes" (whatever the hell that means). In fact, I'd say it probably has little to do with any minimally processed food, regardless of the macronutrient composition.
    +1 on the chronic inflammation.

    But I while it often occurs along with metabolic syndrome, it doesn't need metabolic syndrome to exist. And, with his level of fitness and commitment to exercise, I would think metabolic syndrome would be unlikely..
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  2. #27
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We'll, we just don't know, do we? He doesn't seem to be obese, but triglyceride levels, HDL levels, fasting blood glucose, and blood pressure are other symptoms. Conjecture about this specific case is nigh-on useless (as we have such little information), but the overall conversation can be quite interesting.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  3. #28
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    26,197
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    +1 on the chronic inflammation.

    But I while it often occurs along with metabolic syndrome, it doesn't need metabolic syndrome to exist. And, with his level of fitness and commitment to exercise, I would think metabolic syndrome would be unlikely..
    There is some emerging evidence that metabolic syndrome is the disease and that weight gain is the body's response to an impaired metabolism... it is much worse when a relatively fit person gets this or develops type 2 diabetes, this means their ability to store fat is often impaired (it offers protection from high blood sugar).

    The average North American engages in carb loading all day long and probably needs to run double marathons to justify that type of intake.

  4. #29
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    26,197
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    "Chronic excessive sustained exercise may also be associated with coronary artery calcification, diastolic dysfunction, and large-artery wall stiffening"

    I would have to disagree with that for that two reasons:

    1) While the evidence between "excessive sustained exercise" and hypertrophy and arrhythmia is fairly strong, it is weak for "coronary artery calcification, diastolic dysfunction, and large-artery wall stiffening".

    2) And, again, even if it were, that is not his problem. His problem is plaque clogging his cardiac arteries.

    So, sorry, there is no evidence that we can attribute the plaque in McGillivray's arteries to his running. If anything, the running probably helped him (in that regard) rather than hurt him. As he reports:

    "...meat and potatoes. I was hard-core. That’s what I ate, what I lived on. I always felt like if the furnace was hot enough, it would burn everything..."

    He thought his running would compensate for a poor diet. He now knows that that was a bad assumption:

    "Since receiving the test results in October, McGillivray has avoided red meat and “anything and everything that has any saturated or trans fats in it.” He has been taking medication. And he has been making regular visits to his doctor."
    You can run a furnace at a pretty high temperature but if the fuel mix is wrong you will get sooty buildups.

    I think that this is something we are only starting to really understand.

  5. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    My Bikes
    Roubaix SL4 Expert; Cervelo S2
    Posts
    2,354
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    You can run a furnace at a pretty high temperature but if the fuel mix is wrong you will get sooty buildups.
    It does seem odd that a marathon runner would eat such a poor diet (by his own admission.) I think long term endurance athletes tend to be a pretty self-selecting group who generally care about health and fitness.

  6. #31
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    On the heart side of things, hypertrophy was mentioned. I'm assuming left-ventricle hypertrophy is what we're talking about. If the hypertrophy is brought on by exercise, then it's really not that big of a deal as long as there aren't other issues. The hypertrophy on its own is just an adaptation to a stimulus. Now, if one's heart becomes so large there are signaling issues (afib), complications due to wall flexibility, an aortic aneurysm, etc., then you are in trouble. Endurance athletes tend towards the larger LV's, and that is to be expected to some extent. If these people change their exercise routines (say, a pro retires), then the LV will revert to a normal size over time. After my surgery for my congenital valve defect, my LV shrank from 7.6cm to 5.3. Pretty amazing change, all in all.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  7. #32
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    It does seem odd that a marathon runner would eat such a poor diet (by his own admission.) I think long term endurance athletes tend to be a pretty self-selecting group who generally care about health and fitness.
    His 'poor diet' may be primarily an out-cropping of his present indoctrination. Steak and potatoes may very well not have ever been his issue(I would argue those two things by themselves are fairly benign), regardless of where the fingers are being pointed now. You would be hard pressed to show causality, especially with the tiny amount of information that we have in this case.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  8. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    My Bikes
    Roubaix SL4 Expert; Cervelo S2
    Posts
    2,354
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Right but a "meat and potato" diet is probably a metaphor for traditional comfort food type American diet with no shortage of refined carbohydrate (not that I want this to turn into a low fat vs. low carb thread...) At least, that's how I see it.

  9. #34
    Senior Member Number400's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    South Central PA
    My Bikes
    Scott Addict, Raleigh Rx, GT Timberline
    Posts
    557
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's called aging and genetics and there are many, many sedentary seniors out there who are way older and will outlive many athletes. You are in some control with diet and exercise and lifestyle choices but something in you will kill you eventually. I will keep saving for retirement but generally don't plan for longer than a decade at a time. Anything can happen at any time and if you grow old spending too much time with your eyes on the ball and not in your hands, what is the point?

    What sucks now is that exercising too hard could kill him faster or damage his heart more than if he took it easy and lived a sedentary lifestyle from here on out.
    Last edited by Number400; 01-05-14 at 01:04 PM.

  10. #35
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Right but a "meat and potato" diet is probably a metaphor for traditional comfort food type American diet with no shortage of refined carbohydrate (not that I want this to turn into a low fat vs. low carb thread...) At least, that's how I see it.
    Agreed on your interpretation of his diet. So why blame the steak and potatoes? I wouldn't go so far as to make it a carb related issue as much as a refined/processed food (often grain heavy) issue. He specifically blames one part of his diet (probably a small part of it at that) and gives every other food a pass. Sniffs of dogma to me.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  11. #36
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
    My Bikes
    I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
    Posts
    2,356
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    It does seem odd that a marathon runner would eat such a poor diet (by his own admission.) I think long term endurance athletes tend to be a pretty self-selecting group who generally care about health and fitness.
    I am assuming that most marathon runners and endurance athletes are fueled by eating excessive amounts of sugar and carbs and almost no fat. That's not a healthy diet at all.

  12. #37
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    I am assuming that most marathon runners and endurance athletes are fueled by eating excessive amounts of sugar and carbs and almost no fat. That's not a healthy diet at all.
    It's easier to blame the steak. Tim Noakes, the author of _The Lore of Running_ has some interesting thoughts on the matter. It's definitely worth a Google search. It's safe to say the next version of that book will be significantly different than the last.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  13. #38
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    2012 Trek DS 8.5 all weather hybrid, 2008 LeMond Poprad cyclocross, 1992 Cannondale R500 roadbike
    Posts
    1,809
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Your fitting

    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Right but a "meat and potato" diet is probably a metaphor for traditional comfort food type American diet with no shortage of refined carbohydrate (not that I want this to turn into a low fat vs. low carb thread...) At least, that's how I see it.
    Yes, I think he pretty much said that:
    '"“I’m from that ‘Leave It to Beaver’ era,” he said. “You know, meat and potatoes. I was hard-core. That’s what I ate, what I lived on. I always felt like if the furnace was hot enough, it would burn everything."

    So, I agree that he was not putting fingers at steak or potatoes specifically -- but rather at the traditional American diet -- the "Leave it to Beaver diet"

    And, in the second part of that statement he makes it clear that he was not worried about what he ate -- because he figured the running would burn it off regardless of how bad it was...

    But, most cardiologists are going to tell him to back off of the saturated fats and cholesterol -- and he is doing just that:

    "Since receiving the test results in October, McGillivray has avoided red meat and “anything and everything that has any saturated or trans fats in it.” He has been taking medication. And he has been making regular visits to his doctor."

    If you take that statement literally, it implies that he has gone to a low-fat vegan diet -- because that is the only way to avoid "anything and everything that has any saturated or trans fats in it".

    Actually, I would not be surprised if he is following the Ornish Reversal diet.
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  14. #39
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    My Bikes
    2012 Trek DS 8.5 all weather hybrid, 2008 LeMond Poprad cyclocross, 1992 Cannondale R500 roadbike
    Posts
    1,809
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
    It's called aging and genetics and there are many, many sedentary seniors out there who are way older and will outlive many athletes. You are in some control with diet and exercise and lifestyle choices but something in you will kill you eventually. I will keep saving for retirement but generally don't plan for longer than a decade at a time. Anything can happen at any time and if you grow old spending too much time with your eyes on the ball and not in your hands, what is the point?

    What sucks now is that exercising too hard could kill him faster or damage his heart more than if he took it easy and lived a sedentary lifestyle from here on out.
    But nothing in the article suggested that it was exercise that caused his heart problems (instead it was his "Leave It to Beaver Diet") -- so why would backing off of the exercise help him live longer? Actually, my cardiologist has me going at 80-85% of my max heart rate (damn slave driver!)
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  15. #40
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
    My Bikes
    I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
    Posts
    2,356
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    But nothing in the article suggested that it was exercise that caused his heart problems (instead it was his "Leave It to Beaver Diet")
    Maybe this article was written and published by a vegetarian, that's way steak and mashed potatoes are getting blamed for heart disease.

  16. #41
    Senior Member yodatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    N/W Florida--Pace
    My Bikes
    N+1=20013 Green mongoose Beast, '74 Raleigh International, '58 Raleigh Dawn Tourist, Univega Alpine Sport, Univega Ladies MTB- Wife's, Townie 7D -Wife's, and a pile-o-spare British 'junque'
    Posts
    119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    >>>Anecdotal evidence disclaimer<<< I worked for 15 years at an "All you can eat " buffet , as a maintenance , repair, etc, whatever. They fed me free and a lot. I was on the road a lot , all over the Southeast, where they are known for healthy food , not! I blossomed into a svelte 200+ pound 5'10" pudgy little technician. I even had to exhale deeply to tie my shoes, lol. Sensing a looming problem I quit that job, when they went out of business, and took this job at a pub/ restaurant. They have also feed me well, with the added novelty of free beer and more! I started cutting back on food volume, and running, biking, and joined a gym near here. In October of 2013 some Doctors also sensed a problem , MRI'd and CT scanned me a bunch all over, pronounced me very healthy ,but for the brain thingy. Now we are trying to eat even better? and try to find out what that even entails. I do not drink any more alcohol , and the info on the internet is still as contradicktory as ever. lol this is just some of my 56 years here, your mileage may vary. tom
    2 Peter 2:16. "But was rebuked for his inequity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet"

  17. #42
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Roanoke, Va
    My Bikes
    Raleigh Rush Hour, Leader 721
    Posts
    925
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Maybe this article was written and published by a vegetarian, that's way steak and mashed potatoes are getting blamed for heart disease.
    I could honestly see that. Wouldn't be the first time

  18. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    No Va but ride also in So Md
    My Bikes
    Cervelo SLC-SL, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX
    Posts
    8,673
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    I am assuming that most marathon runners and endurance athletes are fueled by eating excessive amounts of sugar and carbs and almost no fat. That's not a healthy diet at all.
    Totally wrong. The typical marathon runner (one that "runs" the event for time) is very health conscious. My diet, which is typical of all my running friends as well as all the traditional source of training advice, consists of very little lean meat, many fruits and fresh vegetables, and whole grain pasta.

    Take a look at online sources of training diets for runners. I don't see where you got that idea.
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

  19. #44
    Senior Member joewein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    My Bikes
    Bike Friday Pocket Rocket
    Posts
    187
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    I think it was too much marathon running...Marathon running is not healthy. The very first marathon runner died soon after he finished his run.
    That's a complete myth. As I wrote in a blog post last year:

    The myth of the deadly Marathon run is as old as the first Marathon run itself. The Marathon distance of 42 km / 26 miles commemorates a messenger called Pheidippides who supposedly delivered the news of the Greek victory over the Persians at the Battle of Marathon over that distance to Athens, only to die immediately afterwards. A closer reading of the historical sources however reveals it to be a myth, created from a mashup of several other events, neither of them involving the death of a runner. Herodotos, in his history of the Persian wars, only mentioned Pheidippides running from Athens to Sparta (a distance several times longer than from Marathon to Athens) to request help against the Persians. No mention was made of a run from Marathon to Athens after the battle or a death from running. After the victory at Marathon, the Greek army rapidly marched to Athens to ward off a sea invasion, but this was no run. Only some 500 years after the battle, the modern version of the story was cobbled together:
    The first known written account of a run from Marathon to Athens occurs in the works of the Greek writer Plutarch (46–120), in his essay On the Glory of Athens. Plutarch attributes the run to a herald called either Thersippus or Eukles. Lucian, a century later, credits one “Philippides.” It seems likely that in the 500 years between Herodotus’s time and Plutarch’s, the story of Pheidippides had become muddled with that of the Battle of Marathon (particularly the story of the Athenian forces making the march from Marathon to Athens in order to intercept the Persian ships headed there), and some fanciful writer had invented the story of the run from Marathon to Athens.
    (Wikipedia article: Pheidippides)

  20. #45
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by joewein View Post
    That's a complete myth. As I wrote in a blog post last year:
    Which is the myth? That Pheidippides died (or even ran the first marathon) or that marathon running isn't particularly healthy?

    While I believe that good cardio is important to overall health, I think that running a marathon (and training to run a marathon) is not a particularly healthy endeavor. When you start putting in really serious training, like 15+ hours of cardio a week, hormone levels will often go pretty whacky. That alone has to be telling us something.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  21. #46
    Senior Member eriku16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    66
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Which is the myth? That Pheidippides died (or even ran the first marathon) or that marathon running isn't particularly healthy?

    While I believe that good cardio is important to overall health, I think that running a marathon (and training to run a marathon) is not a particularly healthy endeavor. When you start putting in really serious training, like 15+ hours of cardio a week, hormone levels will often go pretty whacky. That alone has to be telling us something.
    Telling "us" what exactly?

  22. #47
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That many people cannot support the level of work that it takes to run a marathon competitively and if they 'just do it' anyway, their bodies will react poorly to it.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  23. #48
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    YEG
    My Bikes
    See my sig...
    Posts
    26,197
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
    Totally wrong. The typical marathon runner (one that "runs" the event for time) is very health conscious. My diet, which is typical of all my running friends as well as all the traditional source of training advice, consists of very little lean meat, many fruits and fresh vegetables, and whole grain pasta.

    Take a look at online sources of training diets for runners. I don't see where you got that idea.
    So your diet is high in carbs with almost no fat.

  24. #49
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    8,176
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
    Totally wrong. The typical marathon runner (one that "runs" the event for time) is very health conscious. My diet, which is typical of all my running friends as well as all the traditional source of training advice, consists of very little lean meat, many fruits and fresh vegetables, and whole grain pasta.

    Take a look at online sources of training diets for runners. I don't see where you got that idea.
    Unfortunately, this forum has attracted a few individuals who are seriously dug in, defending their own facts. I don't see any of them getting on any starting lines or even doing serious group rides.

  25. #50
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Garner, NC 27529
    My Bikes
    Built up DT, 2007 Fuji tourer (donor bike, RIP), 1995 1220 Trek
    Posts
    1,571
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Research is tending towards carbs as a causal of arteriosclerosis...
    Implicating inflammation, metabolic syndrome, and etc.

    Seems like the higher the insulin response the more damage.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •