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  1. #26
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
    Two questions:
    1. Can I power this ride entirely off of Fig Newtons that I carry on my person? I'm figuring I'll need about 1400 cal if it takes me 8 hours, if I bring 1600 cal that should be enough and I could grab a little something extra at a SAG stop if necessary. That would only be eight packs of Fig Newtons which I can almost certainly stow on my person. I know this seems like a random thing to wonder about, but Fig Newtons are almost 100% carb, compact, easy to eat- they are my favorite cycling food. Also, should I be trying to drink Gatorade? I really don't like it (but can drink it), usually just drink water.

    2. Riding in a group- I'd rather avoid if possible. It seems to me like a lot of people don't pay attention to what they're doing. If I don't know the people, and they appear to be riding in a flaky manner, I can't be confidant they won't do something stupid. Is it completely unrealistic to ride without a group? My 75 mi ride was essentially solo- I did parts of it with other people but no drafting, no tight groups, mostly in a range where I was too far from anybody else to be taking advantage of anyone else's effort (maybe 20-30 ft or more spacing). I did hills and decent winds and it went fine. I'm ok with group riding if I happen upon people who seem to have their act together, or if there's a real headwind and I have no choice. I know group riding is the strategic thing to do if you're in a road race, but can't one train sufficiently to make it unnecessary in an untimed event like this?

    H
    1) I eat Fig Newmans, but same idea. They're good. but you might ask the organizers or people who've done it before what to expect at rest stops. It's good to have something you know you can eat, but at the same time it's good not to carry too much stuff. My Fig Newmans say 55 cal. each, so up to 5/hr., not too bad. Jersey pocket durability is not as good as say a Clif Bar. Before I went to liquid food, I carried 6 Clif Bars for a century.

    I don't use Gatorade, preferring plain water. I do use Endurolytes though, about 1/hr for me. YMMV. Usually there are pretzels at rest stops which are good for salt.

    2) Yes, avoid flaky people. I avoid long lines. I like to be about 4th wheel. Another good thing is find an experienced guy the size of a refrigerator and just sit his wheel. Because of his size, you might find that you're compatible and he won't expect you to pull. But it seems to me that a lot of people on these charity rides are pretty good. OTOH, I probably ride in the front 10% or 20% , so maybe I have a skewed perception.

    If you want to get into a line, come up to between two riders who don't look they're together and point to the road between them with your right hand. Usually they'll gradually open a gap for you. I have a lot of experience with group riding, so I can easily see who's got it and who doesn't. But all in all, I haven't seen or had much trouble with riding with strangers. I avoid the obvious crazies. I avoid those who don't keep a steady pace. I avoid those who pedal a much different cadence than I do. I avoid hanging at the end of a long line. Bad statistics, and they accordion. I'll try a wheel and see if I like it. If I don't, I move up or drop off and look for something better. I like people who rotate off and let the next person pull. I never pull for more than 3 minutes. I never overlap, and I ride 6" to one side of the line of the wheel I'm following. A foot of gap for every 10 mph is good.

    Of course it's possible to do it completely solo. Totally realistic. PITA though IMO. I like to get 'er done. Interaction is part of the fun of a charity ride for me. YMMV.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
    I did ride a test, but it didn't go very well....
    Yep. It's hard for someone who is new to training, isnt' already cycling fit and aware of their limits to get a good test in the first time. As you learn more about yourself, correctly following the test protocol becomes easier, while the physicallity of the test actually becomes much more taxing. Because, if properly paced and highly motivated, you're capable of really emptying the tank on a well performed test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
    So from one trial here's what I got:

    Test Max HR 164 bpm
    Heart Rate Targets:
    EM = Endurance miles HR 82-150, Target 110-120 (seems way too low), cadence 85-95
    Tempo (aerobic endurance) HR 145-150, cadence 70-76
    SS = Steady State (power at lactate threshold) HR 151-155
    CR = Climbing Repeat (power at lactate threshold) HR 156-160, cadence 79-85 (less impt than intensity)
    PI = Power Interval (power at V0 max) HR 164- max, cadence 100 rpm
    Was 164bpm your "average" for the first test? Or, the max. achieved during that test? I believe Carmichael would have you determine your zones from the higher average of two tests.

    While perhaps not accurate due to the challenges you faced performing your first ever cycling fitness test, and regardless of whether your 164bpm was your average or your max, your zones don't look entirely rediculous. They are perhaps a little on the low side. We would expect that an athlete would actually be capable of maintaining a HR significantly in excess of their LT for a test as short as 8 minutes. Remember, the CTS Field Test is intended to determine training zones for his programs and not neccessarily to provide you with an approximation of your true LT. I would expect one's LTHR to be somewhere around the limit between Carmichael's Steady State and Climbing Repeat zones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
    Then I tried to ride a second test on the trainer and had some sort of over-reaching thing. I couldn't do anything at all on the bike, I could barely pedal. So I took off the rest of the week, felt like I was on the verge of getting sick all week, but never got sick. After that I was fine & continued on with my training....
    TTCC plan is really good at providing athletes with unplanned, unanticipated crashes. You may have experienced one of those. It certainly sounds like you may have. This is one of the pitfalls of a plan that relies heavily on HIIT in the absence of reasonable prior base training. Welcome to the club. I suffered a few of these before I purchased the book looking for a way to manage and minimize them. The book doesn't contain those answers, so don't waste any time looking for them:-) If you continue with TTCC learn to listen carefully to what your body is telling you and adjust accordingly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
    I do also have the Friel book, I just haven't had time to read it yet. Quite honestly, I haven't 100% finished reading TTCC either, although I've read parts of it multiple times.
    My assessment of Carmichael's book is that is spends an inordinate amount of time selling the plan to you and the value of hiring a CTS coach, who can tailor things to you and answer your questions. Then it provides a few very basic plans that cover a various situations. But, which in some instances aren't even as detailed as plans he's published in the past in magazines. I wouldn't waste too much time rereading it.

    Friel's book on the other hand is packed with more than you can hope to assimilate in one reading. If you're in this for the long haul, start investing your time in reading your copy of the Cyclist's Training Bible. It'll do far more to help you understand your energy systems, how to train them, how to establish a sustainable training plan (TTCC is not;-), how to adjust to life's circumstances and put you in the position of driving your own self-trained program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
    I'm not "worried" about being unable to complete the century (although I'm aware that could happen, like say if I'm battling 40mph winds all day or I get in a crash). I'm also not necessarily looking to "do more". I'm just wondering if I could be training better. I know people who cycle but not really anyone who trains in an organized manner. So I don't have anyone to ask questions of. Except here. And I really appreciate the time so many of you all take in answering.
    With the knowledge that your ultimate goal is not the approaching century, but the one that follows or even beyond, there are certainly better ways that you could be training.

    But, you're too close to this century to change things up too much right now. Start reading the Training Bible with a goal of devising a plan that will see you fully recover from the aforementioned century and ready for the next, which follows reasonably soon after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
    I think I can just keep doing what I'm doing for now, then ride the 135-145 HR pace during the event. I can try a new trainer-based test after the first century to better train for the second. Plus I get my new bike in late Feb, which should make everything even better.
    Absolutely. As long as they're riding sensibly, don't be too afraid of joining in with a group on the ride. As long as you're comfortable, it really helps make the miles zip by.

    Depending on how hard you go during the century and how deep you ride yourself into your reserves, be prepared to spend 1-3 weeks recovering from it. If you keep riding during this period, at the end of it, you should be well and truly rested and ready for a good test.

    And, as always a NEW BIKE makes all of us faster!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post

    I also like trying to figure out the training thing. It's interesting.

    H
    A closing thought of sorts. It sounds like you may be at the stage of a new participant in formalized training where it is very important to remember the old axiom about not increasing your cumulative distance, speed, stress by more than 10% per week. And, not to compound those increases for many weeks in a row.

    Have fun with your training and we look forward to hearing the report about your event and ultimately photos of the new bike.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  3. #28
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    I was snarking a bit about the horror of self-coaching. Of course I love it too, or I wouldn't be posting here so much. However, it is hard to do. The sample size is extremely small, the confounders many and largely unknown.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    I was snarking a bit about the horror of self-coaching. Of course I love it too, or I wouldn't be posting here so much. However, it is hard to do. The sample size is extremely small, the confounders many and largely unknown.
    No problems. I was taking your comments in good spirit.

    We would face the same confounders while being coached by another. But, we would add a level of complexity and possibility for confusion in the neccessity for communicating purely subjective and qualifiable experiences back and forth. The positive to the independent coach is of course that they presumably have exposure to a larger experience base and may have the answers immediately at hand, as well as better foresight. However, I've also witnessed first hand a few instances where the break down in communication between athlete and coach have resulted in long term and career ending injuries. That's highly unlikely in all but the most obsessive self-trained athletes.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  5. #30
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    By the way Heathpack, I'm another huge fan of the Fig Newton. I go out of may way to visit the American Store here in order to get the real McCoy. However, I would grow really tired of just them. I utilize a bento box on my top tube that I fill with the aforementioned Fig Newtons, dried dates, One Square Meal bars cut into 100cal thirds and a few Gu's.

    I mix up bottles of sport drink to the maximum concentration that I still find thirst quenching. Which means I get approximately 100cal/hr from my drink and I make up the other 200-300cal/hr I need with items from the bento box as regularly as I can. I aim to eat a 100cal portion every 20-30 minutes. This seems to work well for me. The right mix for each rider is something we all have to experiment with and figure out for ourselves.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  6. #31
    Has a magic bike Heathpack's Avatar
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    Today's plan was to ride 83 mi- I rode 79. I didn't run out of steam, but I did run out of time (had to get to my ukulele lesson) because part of the ride was a no-drop group ride and we stopped multiple times to re-group. Despite running out of time & losing my last 12 mi of data b/c my garmin's battery died, the ride went very well & I felt strong. I had taken my bike into the shop this week to get it checked out before the century ride & they lubricated it and it was significantly easier/smoother to ride. I managed a pace of 14mph (at least on the 67 mi I have data for), which is fast ride for me, despite lots of headwind and a 20 mile (non-steep) climb. Ave HR was 144, so I put forth more effort than I typically do. Definately feel more tired than last week, but we'll see how I am tomorrow. I'd like to go out for a longish easy ride if possible, but if I'm tired, I'll take the day off.

    Hopefully I did not push it too much but I was having fun.

    H

  7. #32
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    I didn't read all this, i might later... but if you eat 1400 calories of fig newtons won't you spend the entire second half of the ride in porta-potty, crapping your brains out?

    Don't change your nutrition for a big ride. Use what you know. Don't eat too much, and don't overthink it.
    ...

  8. #33
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    On organized rides I dig into the peanuts and M&Ms. Works for me. Powerade and Gatorade in large quantities aggrevate my tummy.

    I think a steady diet of Fig Newtons could result in anal angst.

    PB&J rules, no matter what.

    To the OP: if I were in as good a shape as you are, I wouldn't be sweating some training program unless you're aiming for stuff like a sub-5 hour century.

  9. #34
    Has a magic bike Heathpack's Avatar
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    Had a very nice mellow ride today. 42 slow miles, took it very easy, ave HR 124 bpm. I was a little sore in the am, but the ride actually made me feel better. So it's nice to feel like I don't have to be too worried to open the throttle up a little.

    We'll see what happens next weekend, I'd like to get nab a 90 miler if possible but I'm not concerned if I don't. The organizers of our group ride seem to think I need to climb more, I'm not sure what they'll have in store for next weekend. I'll work around whatever that is. And then after next weekend, I'll basically be done, just taking it easy until the century.

    H

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