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-   -   Low Carb / Paleo Weirdos Check In Here (http://www.bikeforums.net/training-nutrition/930349-low-carb-paleo-weirdos-check-here.html)

MEversbergII 01-24-14 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 (Post 16436762)
If you're getting locally made bacon cured with actual salt I'd say it's not so awful. But I find it laughable that people think eating bacon every morning for breakfast is fine but eating a bowl of pasta isn't.

At least one of my local producers uses MSG and corn syrup in their bacon. Local's not necessarily better.

Pasta is made from wheat. Wheat is less than desirable.

M.

wolfchild 01-24-14 06:29 PM

Bacon is a tasty treat to be enjoyed in moderation. Bacon is not something that I would want to eat very often. The problem with pork is that it's the most contaminated meat of all..Beef is a lot better, beef can even be eaten raw , I ate a lot of raw steak tartar when I was growing up, and never got sick, but you never going to catch me eating undercooked pork.

Ekdog 01-24-14 08:13 PM

[h=1]Michael Pollan Explains What's Wrong With the Paleo Diet[/h]

Trsnrtr 01-26-14 08:52 AM

My doctor gave me one more chance to remove starchy carbs and fruit from my diet or else I was going to start Metformin for Type 2 Diabetes.

I finally did it. No potatoes, rice, peas, corn, popcorn, fruit, pasta, etc. After 30 days, my A1C was <6 and my blood glucose was 84. This morning, my home machine said 71.

Without counting calories, I've lost 30.2# since December 1st, 8 weeks.

After I lose another 10#, I'm get to start gradually reintroducing healthy fruits.

I haven't ridden that much since December 1st due to the cold but I did just get back from Tucson where I rode 240 miles in a week with several mountain pass climbs and I never cramped or suffered from lack of carbs.

BTW, my BP has dropped immensely, too, especially the upper number.

Fat Boy 01-29-14 05:44 PM

I hover around 100-150g of 'base' carbs and then I add carbs based on the athletic endeavors of the day. If I'm going on my 4 hour ride on Saturday, I'll start the day off with a big sweet potato. So I might be at 300-400 grams of carbs on a big riding day (2000-2500 kj of riding). If I try to do a hard ride at a low carb intake (say, 50-75g/day) I just cannot put out much power. It's a _big_ difference.

I think that eating whole, naturally grown/raised food is the biggest gain. I end up eating a good chunk of fat every day, but I don't spend much time ketogenic.

bbbean 01-29-14 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16451295)
I hover around 100-150g of 'base' carbs and then I add carbs based on the athletic endeavors of the day. If I'm going on my 4 hour ride on Saturday, I'll start the day off with a big sweet potato. So I might be at 300-400 grams of carbs on a big riding day (2000-2500 kj of riding). If I try to do a hard ride at a low carb intake (say, 50-75g/day) I just cannot put out much power. It's a _big_ difference.

I think that eating whole, naturally grown/raised food is the biggest gain. I end up eating a good chunk of fat every day, but I don't spend much time ketogenic.

Sounds like you're basically where I am now. I hit my weight goal in the fall and am learning how to fuel my rides adequately without adding weight or spiking my blood sugar. Gels are a decent resource for normal 2-3 hour rides, but I'm not sure about the 2-3 day carb loading non-low-carb folks do. Next week I'm riding my first ever time trial (a short 6 miler), and I'm thinking an extra yogurt, extra coffee, and a gel 30 min before race time will be adequate. Later on in the month, I have some longer races, and I have to figure out how long to bump carbs up pre-race. Gels, cookies, and bananas should get me through the races themselves.

BB

elcruxio 01-30-14 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEversbergII (Post 16437608)
At least one of my local producers uses MSG and corn syrup in their bacon. Local's not necessarily better.

Pasta is made from wheat. Wheat is less than desirable.

M.

What's wrong with wheat (apart from the 6% of the population with which it's incompatible)?

Sixty Fiver 01-30-14 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcruxio (Post 16452617)
What's wrong with wheat (apart from the 6% of the population with which it's incompatible)?

If you are looking to stay on a low level of carbs wheat / flour adds a lot of carbs.

bmontgomery87 01-30-14 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcruxio (Post 16452617)
What's wrong with wheat (apart from the 6% of the population with which it's incompatible)?


I don't think there is really anything wrong with it, unless you're trying to avoid GMO or gluten.

I've never had any trouble getting stronger, losing weight, etc while consuming wheat

Fat Boy 01-30-14 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcruxio (Post 16452617)
What's wrong with wheat (apart from the 6% of the population with which it's incompatible)?

If you're looking to put carbs in your diet (say, for a long ride), there are a lot of options that will provide those same carbs along with a good chunk of other nutrients. Wheat is not a very good source of anything other than calories.

I personally feel that gluten causes a lot of problems that are not necessarily related to celiac, but that's a debatable point, so I don't necessarily want to put that on others. What is an easy thing to see is that there are other better options.

FWIW, my Saturday pre-ride breakfast is a bunch of sweet potato (~500-600 grams). I mix in cinnamon, ground ginger, some maca root, a sprinkle of chopped walnuts, a scoop of vanilla whey and a pour of coconut milk. It's a big breakfast. It ends up to be about 85-100 grams of starch/sugar, 30-35 grams of protein and bit of fat. It's maybe 750 calories or so. It pretty much powers me for a 4+ hour ride.

bmontgomery87 01-30-14 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16453543)
If you're looking to put carbs in your diet (say, for a long ride), there are a lot of options that will provide those same carbs along with a good chunk of other nutrients. Wheat is not a very good source of anything other than calories.

I personally feel that gluten causes a lot of problems that are not necessarily related to celiac, but that's a debatable point, so I don't necessarily want to put that on others. What is an easy thing to see is that there are other better options.

FWIW, my Saturday pre-ride breakfast is a bunch of sweet potato (~500-600 grams). I mix in cinnamon, ground ginger, some maca root, a sprinkle of chopped walnuts, a scoop of vanilla whey and a pour of coconut milk. It's a big breakfast. It ends up to be about 85-100 grams of starch/sugar, 30-35 grams of protein and bit of fat. It's maybe 750 calories or so. It pretty much powers me for a 4+ hour ride.

how do you feel about rice?

It's usually one of my main carb staples (along with potatoes) and I usually feel really well when eating it.

I like wheat and pasta but I've definitely felt bloated and crappy in the past from overconsumption.

Fat Boy 01-30-14 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 (Post 16453551)
how do you feel about rice?

It's usually one of my main carb staples (along with potatoes) and I usually feel really well when eating it.

I like wheat and pasta but I've definitely felt bloated and crappy in the past from overconsumption.

I'm actually OK with rice, especially white rice. If you're looking to get some carbs without any 'bad stuff' (anti-nutrients, gut irritants, whatever terminology you want to use) then I think it's a pretty good option. You don't really get any nutrients from rice, so I'd see it more as a side dish.

Anyway, how is someone supposed to eat Chinese food without some rice?

Fat Boy 01-30-14 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfchild (Post 16438534)
Bacon is a tasty treat to be enjoyed in moderation. Bacon is not something that I would want to eat very often. The problem with pork is that it's the most contaminated meat of all..Beef is a lot better, beef can even be eaten raw , I ate a lot of raw steak tartar when I was growing up, and never got sick, but you never going to catch me eating undercooked pork.

The meat that I've been eating a bit more of lately is lamb. I can get a leg of lamb for $6 a pound. It's a fattier meat than beef, but I'm OK with that. It's grass-fed and great tasting. The kids like it too. I just call it 'roast' and they haven't balked, yet. I'm not super stoked that it is shipped 1/2 way around the planet, but that's not really something I can change.

thechemist 01-30-14 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16453725)
The meat that I've been eating a bit more of lately is lamb. I can get a leg of lamb for $6 a pound. It's a fattier meat than beef, but I'm OK with that. It's grass-fed and great tasting. The kids like it too. I just call it 'roast' and they haven't balked, yet. I'm not super stoked that it is shipped 1/2 way around the planet, but that's not really something I can change.

where are you getting the lamb from or did I miss that?

Fat Boy 01-30-14 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechemist (Post 16453765)
where are you getting the lamb from or did I miss that?

The local Sprout's Market.

bmontgomery87 01-30-14 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16453608)
Anyway, how is someone supposed to eat Chinese food without some rice?

I do stir fry fairly often, or some beef and broccoli.
I've gotten really into making my own chicken curry at home.
Then I put a ton of rice in the rice cooker with a huge scoop of coconut oil and/or butter.

holds me over for a few days worth of lunches.

MEversbergII 01-30-14 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcruxio (Post 16452617)
What's wrong with wheat (apart from the 6% of the population with which it's incompatible)?

Empty calories.

M.

elcruxio 01-31-14 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16453543)
If you're looking to put carbs in your diet (say, for a long ride), there are a lot of options that will provide those same carbs along with a good chunk of other nutrients. Wheat is not a very good source of anything other than calories.

I personally feel that gluten causes a lot of problems that are not necessarily related to celiac, but that's a debatable point, so I don't necessarily want to put that on others. What is an easy thing to see is that there are other better options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16453608)
I'm actually OK with rice, especially white rice. If you're looking to get some carbs without any 'bad stuff' (anti-nutrients, gut irritants, whatever terminology you want to use) then I think it's a pretty good option. You don't really get any nutrients from rice, so I'd see it more as a side dish.

Anyway, how is someone supposed to eat Chinese food without some rice?

This whole anti nutrient thing with wheat is seriously overblown. Whole wheat does not have detrmiental effects if you eat something else with it. Nor do beans, which contain neuro toxins. Nor does milk, which also detriments the absorbtion of nutrients. If you want to eat "clean" without all the "anti nutrients" you are in a position where you can't actually eat anything (you absolutely cannot eat anything plant based with the whole wheat argument)
We're talking of harmful substances in so small concentrations that even worrying about them is a bit simple. I mean yeah, if you eat white flour or just a certain kind of pea or just drink milk you might face some effects, but seriously, who does that?

Wheat acting as a stomach irritant has not been proven, nor is it actually suggested as a viable possibility (irritable bowl syndrome aside, but IBS can be affected by practically anything and is not limited to just grain products). I get the feeling that mostly bloating and irritable bowel has more to do with abuse of starchy food in general than wheat. I mean, you stuff your face with massive amounts of white bread, rice, pasta etc. and when you stop doing that by "cutting gluten" you suddenly feel better. How is that I wonder...

In fact it has beem shown by science that the coarse fibers in whole wheat (and of course other grains) have beneficial effects on the digestive system. It's funny how the one paleo dude misquoted one study in his book saying the coarse fibers "rip" the intestinal walls and cause added mucal discharge and that is a bad thing. It's true that the fibers do rip the intestine and cause mucus to form, but the actual researcher felt that it was actually a very good thing this happens.

About the whole empty calorie thing. Gels are empty calories, and rice, and white bread etc. You can find a ton of empty calorie sources but whole grains are not one of them. They do actually contain quite good amounts of vitamins and fiber in a tight packed starchy form. I mean, yes, you could eat a few pounds of broccoli on a ride to get the carbs, nutrients and fiber and get the carbs needed, or you could eat a few whole wheat jam sandwiches and get the carbs in a much tighter delicious package. Or gels (although I hate the taste of gels. blech)
Then again Allen Lim suggests that potatoes are good for riding food as they have a high glycemic index and load (as does sweet potato, but sweet potato is a bit more cumbersome to prepare)

Fat Boy 01-31-14 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcruxio (Post 16455610)
This whole anti nutrient thing with wheat is seriously overblown. Whole wheat does not have detrmiental effects if you eat something else with it.

About the whole empty calorie thing. Gels are empty calories, and rice, and white bread etc. You can find a ton of empty calorie sources but whole grains are not one of them. They do actually contain quite good amounts of vitamins and fiber in a tight packed starchy form. I mean, yes, you could eat a few pounds of broccoli on a ride to get the carbs, nutrients and fiber and get the carbs needed, or you could eat a few whole wheat jam sandwiches and get the carbs in a much tighter delicious package. Or gels (although I hate the taste of gels. blech)
Then again Allen Lim suggests that potatoes are good for riding food as they have a high glycemic index and load (as does sweet potato, but sweet potato is a bit more cumbersome to prepare)

I tried to take it easy on the wheat thing. I know I have my own personal bug-a-boos and I'm not necessarily interested in putting that on anyone else. A good portion of the positives due to eliminating gluten are anecdotal and anyone who wants can educate themselves and make a personal decision to whatever works best for them.

'Empty' calories are not necessarily a bad thing. If you're looking to get some carbs in your diet for a hard workout, I think you could do a lot worse than rice or potatoes. For me, I seem to work better with starches as opposed to just sugars.

1748357 01-31-14 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16453543)
FWIW, my Saturday pre-ride breakfast is a bunch of sweet potato (~500-600 grams). I mix in cinnamon, ground ginger, some maca root, a sprinkle of chopped walnuts, a scoop of vanilla whey and a pour of coconut milk. It's a big breakfast. It ends up to be about 85-100 grams of starch/sugar, 30-35 grams of protein and bit of fat. It's maybe 750 calories or so. It pretty much powers me for a 4+ hour ride.

Can you post a guide/recipe for this? It sounds delicious.

Fat Boy 01-31-14 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1748357 (Post 16456577)
Can you post a guide/recipe for this? It sounds delicious.

Well, it's pretty much as I've written. I generally wrap 2 big sweet potatoes in foil and bake them the night before. I'll stick them in the fridge until the next morning. I put them in a bowl and mash them up. I just stick the stuff that I mentioned (plus some salt, I guess), all together with no particular measurements. I stick it in the microwave for 4-5 minutes to get it hot and mix it up until it's kind of an oatmeal consistency. I like it, but I'm a weirdo. YMMV.

MEversbergII 01-31-14 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16456608)
Well, it's pretty much as I've written. I generally wrap 2 big sweet potatoes in foil and bake them the night before. I'll stick them in the fridge until the next morning. I put them in a bowl and mash them up. I just stick the stuff that I mentioned (plus some salt, I guess), all together with no particular measurements. I stick it in the microwave for 4-5 minutes to get it hot and mix it up until it's kind of an oatmeal consistency. I like it, but I'm a weirdo. YMMV.

If that makes you weird, I am also weird. Sweet potato is awesome.

M.

Fat Boy 01-31-14 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEversbergII (Post 16457820)
If that makes you weird, I am also weird. Sweet potato is awesome.

M.

Ever tried these? http://www.stokesfoods.com/product.htm Abso-feakin'-lutely delicious.

MEversbergII 01-31-14 07:02 PM

I've had them in chip form, years back. I -think- one of my local ethnic junk food dealers* sells them; should add it to my shopping list.

M.

* In spite of having four "Asian" markets and a Mexican grocer within 5 miles of each other, most of their stock overlaps and consists of packaged junk food. Thus, I don't feel the urge to shop there much.

wolfchild 01-31-14 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16456608)
Well, it's pretty much as I've written. I generally wrap 2 big sweet potatoes in foil and bake them the night before. I'll stick them in the fridge until the next morning. I put them in a bowl and mash them up. I just stick the stuff that I mentioned (plus some salt, I guess), all together with no particular measurements. I stick it in the microwave for 4-5 minutes to get it hot and mix it up until it's kind of an oatmeal consistency. I like it, but I'm a weirdo. YMMV.

I prepare sweet potatoes by cutting them into 1/4 inch slices and then I steam them for few minutes until tender. Then I mash them with lots of butter or some other healthy fat. I never peel them before cooking, I eat them with skin and everything. Sweet potatoes are a huge part of my diet , I like them a lot, they are very filling.


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