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Old 03-02-14, 12:33 PM   #151
Fat Boy
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The thread, and my post are about the Paleo/LCHF diets -- let's leave it at that.

But your response assumes that: If I criticize paleo/LCHF diets, then I must be advocating some other diet. I am not. I think ALL extreme diets need to be approached very carefully with an open mind -- and with the realization that it probably contains some good and some not so good.
I just don't think you're being intellectually honest. If you're posting videos from 'Plant Positive', you are indeed advocating a plant based diet. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it can even be included under the 'Paleo' or 'LCHF' banner if one chose to do so.

The funny part is, I don't eat 'Paleo' or 'LCHF'. Even on a low-carb day I probably run about 125g of carbs (easily twice that on others), which is well above any sort of ketogenic diet. I also eat rice, some dairy, corn, etc., so that disqualifies me from 'Paleo'.

Having said that, I have a hard time throwing stones at someone who wants to eat a diet of wild caught fish, naturally raised livestock, nuts, seeds, fresh fruit and colorful vegetables. The big sticking point seems to be 'healthy whole grains'. Plain and simple, this is not a necessary component of life. If you like to eat it, knock yourself out. If someone decides they don't want to eat it (for whatever reason) how about live and let live?
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Old 03-02-14, 12:49 PM   #152
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I think things like the Paleo diets (and others) start out based on some valid pieces of truth but then get proselytized to the point of becoming a religion -- and too many people then follow them absolutely and blindly...
I know followers of low carb diets that absolutely freak out when they go over their carb limit by a small amount... it seems like for some people the whole world is gonna end because of that extra 10 grams.

Pfffft.

I don't do religion.... it is too stressful.
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Old 03-02-14, 01:31 PM   #153
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I know followers of low carb diets that absolutely freak out when they go over their carb limit by a small amount... it seems like for some people the whole world is gonna end because of that extra 10 grams.

Pfffft.

I don't do religion.... it is too stressful.
Yep!

On the flip side of that: a friend of mine shared some soup with me that she admitted was intolerably bland. But, when I sprinkled a little paremesan on it (which made it kind of tasty), she yelled at me: "I thought you were a vegan!"

Hey! We got rules around here! There will be no deviation from those rules and, No exceptions are allowed!
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Old 03-02-14, 01:45 PM   #154
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I just don't think you're being intellectually honest. If you're posting videos from 'Plant Positive', you are indeed advocating a plant based diet. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it can even be included under the 'Paleo' or 'LCHF' banner if one chose to do so.

The funny part is, I don't eat 'Paleo' or 'LCHF'. Even on a low-carb day I probably run about 125g of carbs (easily twice that on others), which is well above any sort of ketogenic diet. I also eat rice, some dairy, corn, etc., so that disqualifies me from 'Paleo'.

Having said that, I have a hard time throwing stones at someone who wants to eat a diet of wild caught fish, naturally raised livestock, nuts, seeds, fresh fruit and colorful vegetables. The big sticking point seems to be 'healthy whole grains'. Plain and simple, this is not a necessary component of life. If you like to eat it, knock yourself out. If someone decides they don't want to eat it (for whatever reason) how about live and let live?
Fat Boy, the videos were offering criticisms of the Paleo, LCHF and similar diets. Is that a sin?
... If you plan on following any extreme or unusual diet, I think it is good to know its good points as well as its bad points. But I don't think you will be hearing about its bad points from its advocates any time soon. So, that leaves those who are not advocating for it and trying to sell it.

As for "If you like to eat it, knock yourself out. If someone decides they don't want to eat it (for whatever reason) how about live and let live?"

I think most of the people on this forum are here for health and performance reasons. If I was only interested in eating what I LIKE to eat, I would be proselytizing the pizza and ice cream diet.
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Old 03-02-14, 01:47 PM   #155
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Yep!

On the flip side of that: a friend of mine shared some soup with me that she admitted was intolerably bland. But, when I sprinkled a little paremesan on it (which made it kind of tasty), she yelled at me: "I thought you were a vegan!"

Hey! We got rules around here! There will be no deviation from those rules and, No exceptions are allowed!
I had a spoonful of old fashioned vanilla ice cream the other night... with 3 spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

It was awesome.
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Old 03-02-14, 04:47 PM   #156
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what's an extreme diet?
Raw vegan ( aka starvation diet ), is very extreme. I don't know how anybody could follow that.
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Old 03-02-14, 04:56 PM   #157
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I had a spoonful of old fashioned vanilla ice cream the other night... with 3 spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

It was awesome.
My personal indulgence is organic dark chocolate with 80-90 % cocoa.
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Old 03-02-14, 05:57 PM   #158
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Ice cream before bed last night after the century. We keep emergency stores in the freezer. And we limit our chocolate to 75%. You know, more is just too extreme. OTOH, extremism in defense of chocolate is . . . oh well.
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Old 03-02-14, 07:56 PM   #159
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My personal indulgence is organic dark chocolate with 80-90 % cocoa.
Ditto. My most recent find is Slitti Gran Cacao 90. Yum.
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Old 03-03-14, 01:48 AM   #160
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At least George isn't Durianrider.

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My personal indulgence is organic dark chocolate with 80-90 % cocoa.
Straight baking chocolate. Om nom.

M.
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Old 03-03-14, 07:51 AM   #161
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Monounsaturated oils, like olive oil, have a low smoke point which creates carcinogens when you get it too hot. 'Evil' saturated fats have much higher smoke points which can take a lot more heat. Coconut oil, red palm oil, grass-fed beef tallow, grass-fed ghee and lard(to a lesser extent because of a less advantageous O6:O3 ratio) are all better cooking options.
My solution to your stated problem with olive oil is to not let the oil get to hot.

As far as Saturated fats go, I do not think they are evil. You are creating a straw-man argument. I sometimes have bacon and when I do, I will cook my breakfast in the bacon grease. I eat red meat three or four times a week, my favorite steak is the Rib-Eye which is one of the most fatty cuts you can get. I believe in a balance between saturated and unsaturated fats so I cook with olive oil when I do not have left over fat from cooking bacon or beef.
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Old 03-03-14, 11:05 AM   #162
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My solution to your stated problem with olive oil is to not let the oil get to hot.

As far as Saturated fats go, I do not think they are evil. You are creating a straw-man argument. I sometimes have bacon and when I do, I will cook my breakfast in the bacon grease. I eat red meat three or four times a week, my favorite steak is the Rib-Eye which is one of the most fatty cuts you can get. I believe in a balance between saturated and unsaturated fats so I cook with olive oil when I do not have left over fat from cooking bacon or beef.
My argument isn't a straw man at all. The smoke points of some olive oils can be as low as 200 degrees F. It's difficult to cook much and stay below that. If you want to avoid some carcinogens, you're better off choosing another option to cook with. Olive oil is great on salads, but I'm happy to leave it to that duty.

I think you misunderstood my comment about 'evil' saturated fats. I don't think their evil at all and, in fact, I think they can be quite beneficial.
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Old 03-03-14, 11:52 AM   #163
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My argument isn't a straw man at all. The smoke points of some olive oils can be as low as 200 degrees F. It's difficult to cook much and stay below that. If you want to avoid some carcinogens, you're better off choosing another option to cook with. Olive oil is great on salads, but I'm happy to leave it to that duty.

I think you misunderstood my comment about 'evil' saturated fats. I don't think their evil at all and, in fact, I think they can be quite beneficial.
1. I fully understood your "evil" comment and that is what I am calling your straw man argument. You are implying that because I cook with Olive oil, I beleive that saturated fats are evil. I did not say that and as my previous post noted I do not beleive that. You were the one that brought the word the word evli into the discussion not I.

As far as your case against olive oil, we will have to agree to disagree. Since I started cooking with olive oil I have lost over 60 pounds, my blood pressure has come down to where is should be and I am no longer taking blood pressure medicine and my cholsterol has also come down to where it should be. I saw my doctor last week and he said that I was his "poster child" for tunring around my health. I know that it was more than just cooking with olive oil but cooking with olive oil certainly a part of it.

As far as your asertion that the smoking point of olive oil is 200 degrees F, where dou you get that number? That would put the smoking point of olive oil below the boiling point of water which is certainly not the case. If you said 200 degrees C that would be about right. I use extra virgin olive oil which has a smoke point of around 375 degrees F.
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Old 03-03-14, 11:58 AM   #164
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For F's sake you people can get your panties in a bunch quicker than any lot I think I've ever been around. Cook with whatever the F you want. I don't care.

Last edited by Fat Boy; 03-03-14 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 03-03-14, 12:01 PM   #165
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LMGTFY

Read the first link than isn't wikipedia.
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Old 03-03-14, 12:25 PM   #166
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For F's sake you people can get your panties in a bunch quicker than any lot I think I've ever been around. Cook with whatever the F you want. I don't care.

so true.

I only fry with coconut oil.
Olive oil is great for throwing on salads or pasta as you said. but cooking with it isn't the best idea. 5-6 minutes on google and you can figure that one out.
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Old 03-03-14, 02:03 PM   #167
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so true.

I only fry with coconut oil.
Olive oil is great for throwing on salads or pasta as you said. but cooking with it isn't the best idea. 5-6 minutes on google and you can figure that one out.
I keep the olive oil off the stove, will use it to marinate things like souvlakis but it is optimal when it is used cold.

Coconut oil is good for frying but we use lard which we have started to render ourselves.
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Old 03-03-14, 04:46 PM   #168
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Multi-vitamins and Omega-3 Suppliments

Hi, as I mentioned before I am looking to try a LCHF diet and am leaning towards the Atkins since they have been around a long time and I like their web site with lots of support options. One thing the New Atkins book recommends is to take a daily multivitamin that includes magnesium and calcium but no iron, as well as an omega-3 supplement, particularly during induction. Aside from those of you who want to question and argue with that advice, can any of you recommend a particular mufti-vitamin and/or omega-3 supplement? I am trying to narrow down my choices instead of just randomly selecting them, so any help you can give is appreciated.
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Old 03-03-14, 06:07 PM   #169
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Coconut oil is good for frying but we use lard which we have started to render ourselves.
I am originally from Eastern Europe and I remember when I was a little boy we only used lard, beef tallow and goose fat for cooking which we rendered ourselves, I didn't even know what a vegetable oil was. We used to make homemade donuts which we cooked in a large pot of lard, those homemade donuts were actually healthy and a lot more tasty then the junk from Crispy Crème or Tim Hortons..Another popular way of eating lard or goose fat was to spread it on a slice of bread, just like butter and then sprinkle some freshly chopped onions, garlick and salt.
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Old 03-03-14, 06:13 PM   #170
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I am originally from Eastern Europe and I remember when I was a little boy we only used lard, beef tallow and goose fat for cooking which we rendered ourselves, I didn't even know what a vegetable oil was. We used to make homemade donuts which we cooked in a large pot of lard, those homemade donuts were actually healthy and a lot more tasty then the junk from Crispy Crème or Tim Hortons..Another popular way of eating lard or goose fat was to spread it on a slice of bread, just like butter and then sprinkle some freshly chopped onions, garlic and salt.
We also render duck and goose fat, lard used to be a common substitute for butter when times were hard and nutritionally it is very good for you as long as it has not been hydrogenated which is the issue with commercial lard.

We also save bacon fat which adds a lot of flavour to vegetables.

My Hungarian deli also sells pure lard for a reasonable cost.
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Old 03-03-14, 06:58 PM   #171
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But your response assumes that: If I criticize paleo/LCHF diets, then I must be advocating some other diet. I am not.
My response doesn't "assume" anything. It is what was stated. You replied saying you partake in what some would consider an extreme diet. I was interested to find out what kind of diet that is. Whether you advocate for it or not doesn't matter much to me, what matters for me is to learn what works well for other people. I find that interesting.
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Old 03-03-14, 10:14 PM   #172
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As of late I've been using a ceramic coated frying pan which doesn't really need any oil at all to cook on. I think this is a good option for someone trying to count calories (like me) since you have less to keep track of.

I've tried cooking with olive oil in varying configurations but I could never get it to work right. Either I'd use too much and end up with gucky food, or I would use too little and it would scorch a bit and make everything taste off. Subsequently I just use it cold now, if at all. Since kicking the regular sourdough bole habit, I don't really have much use for it at all, which is unfortunate because it tastes great.

When I do use oil, I use a bit of peanut oil (I rarely botch that) or some coconut oil (never screwed that up). I tried cooking in butter a few times but I always screw up the heat and have it too low (takes forever to cook anything) or too high (turns the butter brown and it tastes bad).

I just kinda suck in the kitchen...

M.
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Old 03-04-14, 07:03 AM   #173
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As of late I've been using a ceramic coated frying pan which doesn't really need any oil at all to cook on. I think this is a good option for someone trying to count calories (like me) since you have less to keep track of.

I've tried cooking with olive oil in varying configurations but I could never get it to work right. Either I'd use too much and end up with gucky food, or I would use too little and it would scorch a bit and make everything taste off. Subsequently I just use it cold now, if at all. Since kicking the regular sourdough bole habit, I don't really have much use for it at all, which is unfortunate because it tastes great.

When I do use oil, I use a bit of peanut oil (I rarely botch that) or some coconut oil (never screwed that up). I tried cooking in butter a few times but I always screw up the heat and have it too low (takes forever to cook anything) or too high (turns the butter brown and it tastes bad).

I just kinda suck in the kitchen...

M.
If you are trying to reduce oil & associated calories, I have found that using a little broth (more than you would if you were using oil, but much less than you would use if you were boiling the food) in the pan works surprisingly well. You can't get the searing the same as with a hot oil, but it does help a lot versus a dry pan. Also, the cooking sprays can be helpful -- but they are mostly oils too and it is easy to use "too much" and defeat their purpose.

But, for taste, nothing beats peanut oil...
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Old 03-04-14, 06:35 PM   #174
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This may be of interest


Study the suggest high protein diets can increase cancer risk as much as smoking

quote

The researchers looked at more than 6,000 people ages 50 and older, and followed them for 18 years. They found that people ages 50 to 65 who ate a diet rich in animal proteins during middle age were more than four times as likely to die of cancer during the study period than those who ate a low-protein diet, according to the study published today (March 4) in the journal Cell Metabolism.



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http://news.yahoo.com/high-protein-d...174546618.html
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Old 03-04-14, 06:41 PM   #175
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If you are trying to reduce oil & associated calories, I have found that using a little broth (more than you would if you were using oil, but much less than you would use if you were boiling the food) in the pan works surprisingly well. You can't get the searing the same as with a hot oil, but it does help a lot versus a dry pan. Also, the cooking sprays can be helpful -- but they are mostly oils too and it is easy to use "too much" and defeat their purpose.

But, for taste, nothing beats peanut oil...
I'm not too crazy for peanut oil, all told. Good point on the broth though, which reminds me that I need to get another batch going.

Oh, speaking of which, I still have the tallow I skimmed off my last batch, which I occasionally use for coking. Very nice.

M.
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