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Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

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Old 03-05-14, 01:41 PM   #201
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I would say that ANY serious, non-calorie restricting diet that deviates substantially from the McD's dollar menu is either difficult or very expensive -- unless every meal is home cooked from scratch.
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Old 03-05-14, 02:18 PM   #202
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I suspect the flat earther's were saying something similar about 500 years ago...
Perhaps you didn't notice, but the title of this thread is 'Low-Carb-Paleo-Weirdos-Check-In-Here'..show a little consideration and stop wasting our time
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Old 03-05-14, 02:23 PM   #203
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Old 03-05-14, 02:33 PM   #204
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It is also possible to reduce carbohydrate intake without it instantly being on a LCHF diet.

That study does not say much about proteins derived from plants, which is something I personally strive for.
If you lower your carb intake you have to make up the caloric deficit somewhere... unless you plan to do a lot less work.

You can either run on high test (sugar) or diesel (fats) so increasing fats will offset the carb reduction but if you are going to reduce carbs you want to optimize your fat based metabolism and reduce carbs to a threshold where this is possible.
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Old 03-05-14, 02:37 PM   #205
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If one is so poorly off that they can only afford ramen noodles and no name kraft dinner then it is going to cost more to eat at fast food restaurants or to start cooking healthy home-made meals but those home cooked meals can actually cost a great deal less than fast food.

Another issue is that we have a generation of people who do not how to plan and cook meals.

My oldest daughter likes her chicken nuggets and has her own money to spend, up here in Canada the nuggets are real chicken and a meal costs her $10.00

I can cook a lot of awesome food for $10.00.
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Old 03-05-14, 03:40 PM   #206
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I can cook a lot of awesome food for $10.00.
No kidding. How much stir fry can you do for $10? Probably 5 pounds or so.

I do all the cooking in our house. The kids know that eating at a restaurant is a treat. For one reasonable meal out, we can eat about 3 nice meals in. Learning to cook a reasonable series of dinners should be required prior to having children.
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Old 03-05-14, 04:52 PM   #207
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Rowan -
Eat too much and you will experience weight gain but it is not as simple as calories in / calories out and we have covered the fact (ad nauseum) that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to humans due to the complex nature of our metabolisms and how we process different food sources.
Wha..? Excuse me while I...
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Old 03-05-14, 05:05 PM   #208
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No kidding. How much stir fry can you do for $10? Probably 5 pounds or so.

I do all the cooking in our house. The kids know that eating at a restaurant is a treat. For one reasonable meal out, we can eat about 3 nice meals in. Learning to cook a reasonable series of dinners should be required prior to having children.
Because we skip most of the middle aisles at the grocery store and shop around the outside we save a lot of money... as my wife works at the grocery store she is always a step up on what is on sale and is excellent at watching the grocery budget and also gets a 10% discount.

If something we use goes on sale, we stock up so right now our freezer is full of beef heart (which is cheaper anyways) and I purchased a good deal of pork liver from a local supplier and it does not get any better than this for quality or taste.

I will be ordering a side of organic beef from a local producer in a few weeks and perhaps get a whole lamb (also organic) and have a good line on a supply of fresh goats milk and we get our eggs locally. This works out to be cheaper than buying from the grocery store (meat wise) and the quality is much better.

Our fridge is full of green vegetables and this summer we'll plant the garden with our favourite greens and herbs and won't waste space by planting more than a few red potatoes.

Because a low carb diet is also more nutritionally dense the quantity of food we eat does not have to be as much as it would if it included a lot of carbs.

As we can't grow coconuts I buy our organic coconut oil at Costco for a very good price... $18.00 for 54 oz and this lasts us a few weeks and comprises 1/4 of our daily caloric intake.

Our children are learning how to plan and cook meals, our youngest is on board with the whole low carb diet after realizing how crappy she felt after a weekend carb fest with her girlfriends... all she wanted to do was eat bacon for a few days.



Eating out is far too expensive, what we would spend on a modest dinner for four can fill up our fridge for half a week and the ladies agree that I am a far better cook.
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Old 03-05-14, 05:26 PM   #209
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Wha..? Excuse me while I...
You must have skipped physics.

The first law of thermodynamics states that in a closed system, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed or transferred.

Some people have dumbed this down to the mantra of "calories in / calories out" and try to apply this to human beings which are not a closed system and subject to countless variables.

Most people don't understand the metabolic process very well...and would guess most aren't married to someone who has a deep background in biochemistry and cellular biology.
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Old 03-06-14, 01:12 AM   #210
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Most people don't understand the metabolic process very well...and would guess most aren't married to someone who has a deep background in biochemistry and cellular biology.
Your wife used to post here ... maybe she should come back and try to explain the concepts you talk about in a way that everyone can understand.
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Old 03-06-14, 02:15 AM   #211
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Your wife used to post here ... maybe she should come back and try to explain the concepts you talk about in a way that everyone can understand.
I am not seeing a lot of confusion here and you are the first person to have an issue, I think I present information and ideas at a number of levels so that everyone can understand.

What parts are you not getting ?
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Old 03-06-14, 04:33 AM   #212
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Good. Start another thread.
Entitled: "A Healthy, Well-Balanced Diet"?


Might not be a bad idea in case any newbies come into this forum and think all cyclists are "low carb/paleo weirdos".
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Old 03-06-14, 09:59 AM   #213
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Entitled: "A Healthy, Well-Balanced Diet"?


Might not be a bad idea in case any newbies come into this forum and think all cyclists are "low carb/paleo weirdos".
How about one entitled smilie wierdos check in here?
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Old 03-06-14, 11:08 AM   #214
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There are all different kinds of diets and what works for one person might not work for another. If the way you choose to eat helps you lose weight and get healthier, go for it, because that's really what we're all looking for, isn't it?

There are all sorts of studies showing the pros and cons of different diets, so I don't think we're going to really come to a scientific conclusion about any of them here on a cycling forum.

This thread was started so that people who like to eat a certain way can discuss it and help each other out. If it doesn't appeal to you, feel free to start another thread highlighting your own dietary preferences. I don't want the debating/arguing to derail the thread and get it closed.

Thanks for your cooperation.

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Old 03-06-14, 12:15 PM   #215
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I don't really care for the notion that the human body doesn't follow the first law of thermo. At the end of the day, it does. It just depends how you are doing your accounting.

Eating ketogenic has a number of aspects to it that helps weight loss. You will probably raise your resting metabolism. You will also probably tend to eat fewer calories through the day due to the high satiety of the food. In my experience, it's a good tool, but it's not magic. There are short-comings.

It's possible to gain weight eating a ketogenic diet. There are mechanisms beyond insulin that allow fat storage. It's still possible to overrun your metabolism, but it's simply less likely.
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Old 03-06-14, 12:24 PM   #216
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^ Correct, IMO. Many studies bear this out.
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Old 03-06-14, 01:28 PM   #217
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I don't really care for the notion that the human body doesn't follow the first law of thermo. At the end of the day, it does. It just depends how you are doing your accounting.

Eating ketogenic has a number of aspects to it that helps weight loss. You will probably raise your resting metabolism. You will also probably tend to eat fewer calories through the day due to the high satiety of the food. In my experience, it's a good tool, but it's not magic. There are short-comings.

It's possible to gain weight eating a ketogenic diet. There are mechanisms beyond insulin that allow fat storage. It's still possible to overrun your metabolism, but it's simply less likely.
So what you are saying here is that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply, if we were a closed system we may have very well become extinct as this would not allow us to be so flexible with intake and our ability to store and use energy.

By it's very definition it is something that should be limited to closed engineering systems and not human beings as it does a dis-service to those who think it is just as simple as energy in / energy out as there are too many variables (like hormones) that affect things over the short term... although it will probably even out over the longer term.

Dust to dust and all that.

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Old 03-06-14, 02:00 PM   #218
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So what you are saying here is that the first law of thermodynamics does not apply, if we were a closed system we may have very well become extinct as this would not allow us to be so flexible with intake and our ability to store and use energy.
I know there was a smiley there, but don't put words in my mouth. The first law of thermodynamics does indeed hold and saying it doesn't is not accurate.

One thing you learn in your first thermodynamics course is that you have to draw the boundaries of your closed system wisely. There are many variables involved in any diet and I don't claim to understand (or even have the capacity to understand) it all. When people say the first law isn't applicable is just applying the boundary conditions incorrectly. There's a difference.
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Old 03-06-14, 02:09 PM   #219
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I did clean eating for 12 months, only drinking water and eating minimally processed foods (local farmers markets, making my own whole wheat breads/pasta, no artificial ingredients, no chemicals, nitrates, etc). I lost 40 lbs, but still would feel bloated on occasion, even with frequent small meals throughout the day. I've been low-carbing the past month, lost another 12 lbs (at 157 now), and I don't limit calories but I limit carbs to 30g net. I've never felt better. I am not a grain hater, but I haven't felt bloated/stuffed once since.

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Old 03-06-14, 04:45 PM   #220
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Probably a form of lesser intolerance.

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Old 03-06-14, 07:07 PM   #221
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30g of carbs is very low. Are there days where you eat higher amounts? Isn't there a risk of adrenal fatigue with such a consistent low intake?
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Old 03-06-14, 07:26 PM   #222
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30g of carbs is very low. Are there days where you eat higher amounts? Isn't there a risk of adrenal fatigue with such a consistent low intake?
My wife knows women who suffer from thyroid diseases with associated adrenal fatigue... she understands thyroid health and related matter exceptionally well

An ultra low carb diet can bring adrenal fatigue issues to the surface and in this case means that the thyroid issues need to be addressed... cutting out foods that trigger auto-immune responses can help address the thyroid issues.

For the most part she has found that people with thyroid issues respond very well to a LCHF diet or a modified paleo diet that allows more carbs... she has observed that her T3/T4 conversion has improved greatly.
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Old 03-06-14, 10:44 PM   #223
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I eat 30g net carbs, not 30g carbs, as I still get plenty of fiber and nutrients from veggies. I have MORE energy now on a 70%+ fat diet. It's funny, because I was the guy who thought the Paleo crew were nut jobs, as I strongly believed in complex carbohydrates, including wheat. After getting over my own arrogance, I decided to try a LCHF diet and was honestly surprised how great I felt after. It's still only been a month so only time will tell (I may reintroduce carbs (not processed crap) back in, but I suggest people try before they assume like I did.

i should also note my primary concern IS overall health and how I feel. I think what really matters is eating real food, and not processed junk or food "products". I'm 157 at 5'10 so I'm not trying to lose weight now. I ride 20+ miles a day without excess carbs just fine.

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Old 03-07-14, 04:31 AM   #224
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Actually the calories in calories out is completely correct. There is absolutely nothing false in that statement and follows the laws of thermodynamics accordingly (as humans are not separate from the laws of physics)

However as that is a broad sweeping statement it does not really define the reality very well.
First one must know the individual calorie consumption. This varies. Wildly. Efficiency during exercise, rest metabolism etc. To be on the safe side on should probably go on the low with the basic metabolic rate estimate.
Secondly it is a matter of how well the body will absorb energy. This varies wlldly as well.
Thirdly, exercise consumes surprisingly little calories. Let's assume cycling expenditure is 500 calories per hour. For actual weight loss one would have to do at least the one hour every single day. Maybe even two hours. That is a lot.

But none of these affect the fact that if one eats 2000 calories a day and the daily expenditure of said person is 2500 calories that person is going to lose weight. But that 2500 must be actually verifiedly measured somehow. The main problem with going with calories in calories out is the false estimate. Your body will go on the savings when trying to lose weight. This is where eating smart and the correct methods of exercise come in (HIIT training)

Btw, can the low carb people do HIIT? How often do you go 95-99% of max HR? One would assume that requires carbs as carbs are the main fuel in high intensity training.
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Old 03-07-14, 06:12 AM   #225
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Actually the calories in calories out is completely correct. There is absolutely nothing false in that statement and follows the laws of thermodynamics accordingly (as humans are not separate from the laws of physics)
For the most part, in terms of weight gain and weight loss, yes cals in/ cals out does work.
But people need to focus on body composition and fat loss, not just weight loss. Therefore you have to start accounting for individual macros and worry about what you're consuming.
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