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  1. #26
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    Isn't most whey (dairy food by-products) used in animal feed?
    Yes it was used as animal feed long time ago...But then somebody got an idea to put that stuff into a box mix it with some flavourings to mask it's nasty taste, then put a bunch of fancy labels with lightning bolts and pictures of mutants with 30 inch biceps and that's how we got a multimillion dollar supplement industry.

  2. #27
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Yes it was used as animal feed long time ago...But then somebody got an idea to put that stuff into a box mix it with some flavourings to mask it's nasty taste, then put a bunch of fancy labels with lightning bolts and pictures of mutants with 30 inch biceps and that's how we got a multimillion dollar supplement industry.
    Yeah... I think the largest portion of whey is still animal feed. Selling whey to humans as "muscle food" is genius as far as marketing goes. But hey... what's the difference. Maybe healthy is over-rated. Preparing and eating real food is so time consuming and troublesome too. Powder drink mixes must save lots of effort.

    Too bad someone hasn't renamed candy bars with some healthy sounding name too. Then body builders could have a great diet of sugar and milk fat solids..... YUMMY.

  3. #28
    Senior Member robabeatle's Avatar
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    Sounds like we’re heading down the “certain food is evil” path once again.

  4. #29
    Senior Member MEversbergII's Avatar
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    Fun fact: Ricotta cheese is made from recooked whey. It is whey protein.

    M.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robabeatle View Post
    Sounds like we’re heading down the “certain food is evil” path once again.
    I am not going down that path! I even think whey has a place in the food chain... although I'd use it mostly in chicken feed (and so does the industry).

    I think cycling (as a sport) recently took a huge hit with the general public.... because our most famous advocate lost track of what was important. Of course big muscles and great performance is important too. But where do we... individually... draw the imaginary line. What powder is the "right" powder... and which powder is "wrong".

    I think when we discard basic healthy nutrition.... we're heading the wrong direction. Eating healthy and hydrating properly has to be basic.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
    Fun fact: Ricotta cheese is made from recooked whey. It is whey protein.

    M.
    Fun fact question: Do you REALLY think Ricotta cheese is made from whey powder?

  7. #32
    Senior Member MEversbergII's Avatar
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    No, it's made from recooked whey. As I mentioned.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricotta

    M.

  8. #33
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Lot's of good food comes from milk... both whole milk and refined milk. In modern American dairy's (where milk is processed) curds are created using an acid process. Then of course with every process.... by-products are left-over. The powdered whey is the end of the line... of dairy foods.

    It is similar with most food production. Every part of a chicken (as an example) is completely edible. Even those funny looking bird feet are a food product. And.... believe it or not... Feather meal is produced by a high-pressure steam processing method similar to autoclaving, followed by drying. Heat and steam hydrolyze the feathers into a cysteine-rich, high protein product that is 60% digestible.

    Now all we need to do is sell that to teenage body builders as "special cysteine-rich muscle protein". But... I wouldn't serve that crap to my kids, grandkids, aged mother.... nor would I eat it myself.

  9. #34
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post

    My point exactly! Protein is protein, chemical is chemical, powders are powders! Why screw with nutritious meals.... or even highly processed freeze dried milk fat... when a person could jump right into performance drugs. After all the desired results are big muscles.... not health.
    You don't have a point, you want to stigmatize.

    You get whey left over when you make cheese, and people have eaten that for centuries.
    By any sane definition, it's a food.

    I can see why you want to make fun of the supplement industry, most of that stuff is
    crap. But a good quality powdered protein is a great thing to have around, esp. if you
    like working out at the gym. Which I do.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  10. #35
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post

    Even those funny looking bird feet are a food product.
    I picked something off a menu in Hungary and what showed up
    was steaming bowl of chicken broth with a storm of hot paprika
    swirling around, and 3 chicken feet in the bottom of the bowl.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  11. #36
    Senior Member robabeatle's Avatar
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    BTW: vanilla flavored whey added into the morning granola/oatmeal/berry mixture is great!

  12. #37
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    you want to stigmatize.
    You have that backwards!!!!!!! YOU are stigmatizing. YOU want to pick the "correct" powder. YOUR powder is good.... that other guys performance enhancer is BAD?!?!? I don't see the difference.... because there isn't one. I am just willing to be honest about it. How do you know.... where to draw the line? Which powder is the "wrong" powder?

    I don't care what others take or put in their bodies. But food by products.... don't magically turn into real food.... just because you "call it" food. Bending words around and rationalizing is common behavior. Taking your powders or whatever your doing.... isn't any of my business.

    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    ..... a good quality powdered protein is a great thing to have around, esp. if you like working out at the gym. Which I do.
    Yeah.... and when I was in the Army they had special pills that kept us awake at night too. A great thing to have around..... if your life depends on your performance.

    I am sorry but I think most people who eat powder are ether nursing a new eating disorder... or already have one. I advocate eating healthy foods. You know.... that stuff called meals. If that sounds odd to you.... maybe you should think about that.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    I picked something off a menu in Hungary and what showed up was steaming bowl of chicken broth with a storm of hot paprika
    swirling around, and 3 chicken feet in the bottom of the bowl.
    Yep. Its chicken too.... just like the breast. And actually so are the feathers and the chicken buttholes. There isn't any dumpsters full of chicken buttholes anywhere.

    However... American culture eliminates a lot of the food parts still seen and eaten in other parts of the world. KFC has recently introduced "boneless" chicken in its restaurants. More and more people are grossed out at the sight of bones.... and other forms or "real food". Foods(?) that don't look or taste like real food.... are in big demand. Whey powders... for SOME people are part of that.

    Whey powder doesn't look and/or taste or smell like cheese... or whey.... or even milk. It's mixed with artificial flavors and sweeteners.... it has no texture or noticeable mouth-feel. It's a non-food.

    All I am saying is the first steps to being a cyclist is getting a bicycle... and riding... lots. There isn't any shortcuts or easy-outs. And the first steps to a healthy body is good food, clean water, and restful sleep. There isn't any prepackaged shortcuts.
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 02-14-14 at 07:02 PM.

  14. #39
    Senior Member robabeatle's Avatar
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    And we are there.

  15. #40
    Senior Member MEversbergII's Avatar
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    My whey protein consists of whey protein and lecithin. No sweeteners in sight.

    M.

  16. #41
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    ...
    However... American culture eliminates a lot of the food parts still seen and eaten in other parts of the world. KFC has recently introduced "boneless" chicken in its restaurants.
    ... .
    We eat it more than we know... It's called "pink slime" -- but it looks like a hambooger or "boneless chicken" and we think it is because they tell us it's "all beef" or "all chicken". And, they are right, it is... It just isn't the parts of the cow or chicken that we assume that it is...
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  17. #42
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
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    There is a nice cheese factory near here. I think much of the water that is drained from the whey is sprayed on corn fields for fertilizer. I prefer fresh cows milk for a recovery drink after cooler rides. Real milk has more fat than commercial milk by at least 30%.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

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  18. #43
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post

    You have that backwards!!!!!!! [/B]YOU are stigmatizing. YOU want to pick the "correct" powder. YOUR powder is good.... that other guys performance enhancer is BAD?!?!? I don't see the difference.... because there isn't one. I am just willing to be honest about it. How do you know.... where to draw the line? Which powder is the "wrong" powder?

    I don't care what others take or put in their bodies. But food by products.... don't magically turn into real food.... just because you "call it" food. Bending words around and rationalizing is common behavior. Taking your powders or whatever your doing.... isn't any of my business.

    Yeah.... and when I was in the Army they had special pills that kept us awake at night too. A great thing to have around..... if your life depends on your performance.

    I am sorry but I think most people who eat powder are ether nursing a new eating disorder... or already have one. I advocate eating healthy foods. You know.... that stuff called meals. If that sounds odd to you.... maybe you should think about that.
    I didn't say what you accuse me of saying. I think there's a three letter word that describes that...

    Which isn't surprising because you've pretty much ignored what I did say to keep ranting.

    At the moment my breakfast shake has 3 types of protein, whey, casein, and pea.
    I am finishing up some casein.

    I never buy protein with anything in it, and said so before.

    Next, calling something a food byproduct doesn't change what it is.
    When you're going to the gym, last thing you want is a gut full of food,
    but you do want a bunch of protein. And that's where a protein shake
    gets real handy, I can get my protein without a lot of calories or bulk.

    I've said this before in this thread, but I guess it will take a few more times to soak in,
    the supplement industry is mostly crap. I don't blame you for having a negative reaction to
    it, it's disgusting.

    But some things are quite useful. Not so much for cyclists, they don't really need much protein.
    But that is one way to cover your bases.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  19. #44
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    We eat it more than we know... It's called "pink slime" -- ...
    Pink slime was (past tense) only beef.... and over 85% of the steam recovered meat was used in animal feed. There was only two plants that made slime and they both closed their doors... last I heard.

    And..... in my humble opinion that's a shame. That meat (food by product) should have been used in animal feed. It doesn't even bother me in some by products are reintegrated into the human food products.

    BUT... there are a TON of known eating disorders. And the non-food powders and drinks products are fueling (food humor) the newest disorder: People that don't eat real food. The really bad thing is no one has ANY idea what happens to people that eat pretend foods.
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 02-15-14 at 11:35 AM.

  20. #45
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    When you're going to the gym, last thing you want is a gut full of food, but you do want a bunch of protein. And that's where a protein shake gets real handy, I can get my protein without a lot of calories or bulk.

    But some things are quite useful. Not so much for cyclists, they don't really need much protein. But that is one way to cover your bases.
    Even though I am a cyclist.... I also work out. But I do nether competitively. I fully understand convenience... and not always doing the healthiest thing. I just don't advocate doing unhealthy things. Or rationalizing bad behaviors.

  21. #46
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post

    Even though I am a cyclist.... I also work out. But I do nether competitively. I fully understand convenience... and not always doing the healthiest thing. I just don't advocate doing unhealthy things. Or rationalizing bad behaviors.
    A pure whey protein of good quality is not unhealthy.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  22. #47
    Senior Member muzpuf's Avatar
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    Global Warming Is A Hoax

  23. #48
    Senior Member Ursa Minor's Avatar
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    I need some colon blow!

    Charlie
    Grimly determined to have fun.

  24. #49
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by late View Post
    A pure whey protein of good quality is not unhealthy.
    I'd like to read that study. I assume you have a link to post/share with the rest of us. Last I had heard.... almost nothing had actually been charted through the body. Nice to know someone finally figured out how to... not only follow nutrient's through the body... but access their healthfulness. I will look for your link.

  25. #50
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post

    I'd like to read that study. I assume you have a link to post/share with the rest of us. Last I had heard.... almost nothing had actually been charted through the body. Nice to know someone finally figured out how to... not only follow nutrient's through the body... but access their healthfulness. I will look for your link.
    It's your assertion that it is unhealthy.
    But I won't hold my breath, because we both know there is nothing to find.

    While you are boring and repetitive, this has been a pleasant contrast to
    the silliness you find on some gym rat websites. Like I said earlier, protein
    is protein.
    Last edited by late; 02-15-14 at 04:34 PM.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

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