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  1. #76
    Senior Member robabeatle's Avatar
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    Yeah, sounds to me like some people have "real" issues with food and eating.

  2. #77
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    For protein I prefer greek yogurt. I get the 2% greek yogurt from Trader Joe's and add some raspberry preserves to make it more palatable. That gets you 24g of protein for one cup @ 160 calories (for just the yogurt.)

    Whey powder is messy, less convenient and doesn't taste particularly good IMO. As I recall, whey powder is also more caloric than greek yogurt per gram of protein even before you add it to a smoothie (which also has calories.)

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    People with eating disorders often think of "food" as merely chemical replacement. Much like "nutritional medicine". They can not see the difference between [as an example] an apple... and vitamin C supplements. Terms like "protein is protein" is the type of buzz words/phrases that parents (and friends) should look for.

    Real food.... has NOTHING to do with it's chemical make-up of where or how it is grown. "Real food" brings enjoyment to the people who eat it.... most often in a social environment. Don't fool yourself into believing that everyone with an eating disorder is a 14 year old skinny girl. Some of the stuff I've read here is full of things that should alarm most parents.
    Utter nonsense.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    So what's your point ??..What's your solution to a balanced diet and protein intake ??..Should we all stop eating "real food" and start popping amino acid pills, and living on meal replacement candy bars and protein powders ??
    My point is much as was pointed out in an earlier post. Our bodies are chemical and electrical machines. To provide proper fuel for those machines a person has to do a fair amount of personal research. Why? Because there is a large industry with a lot of money at stake whose primary goal is to make money, not give healthy nutrition.

    My point in earlier posts was and is that what is purchased in the supermarket is mainly not what would be considered to be "real food". It is the product of large amounts of chemicals applied to crops and animals. Increasingly it is also the product of genetically modified seeds whose long term safety has yet to be determined. Much of what proceeds from government and other sources is based on the idea that biological safety is the same thing as being nutrionally good for you. Such is clearly not the case.

    Make no mistake, eating healthily in today's world is not a simple task. Most people throw up their hands and just buy a Lean Cuisine or Protein bar and get on with life. Even reading food labels is difficult. Manufacturers do their best to disguise what is in their products. For example: One snack bar I just saw touts how healthy if is. But, the first ingredient is "organic brown rice syrup". In other words sugar.

    My solution is in three parts: 1: Spend the time necessary to understand what you are putting in your body. 2. In the supermarket shop mainly on the perimeter. 3. Understand there is a battle for your dollar/pound/??? You need to step up and protect what is yours.

  5. #80
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    .... My point in earlier posts was and is that what is purchased in the supermarket is mainly not what would be considered to be "real food". It is the product of large amounts of chemicals applied to crops and animals. Increasingly it is also the product of genetically modified seeds whose long term safety has yet to be determined.
    Yeah.... except that just isn't true. I know it is commonly believed by many who are completely removed from the food supply. But it is very much like the old McDonalds Internet Hoax's. Accepted by many... but not a gram of truth about it.

  6. #81
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    Utter nonsense.
    Really? I've known people with eating disorders. This is serious stuff. I really can't say that YOU have an eating disorder. I'd like to think not. But much of what has been posted here certainly mimics what most would expect such a people to actually think.

  7. #82
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    For protein I prefer greek yogurt. I get the 2% greek yogurt from Trader Joe's and add some raspberry preserves to make it more palatable. That gets you 24g of protein for one cup @ 160 calories (for just the yogurt.)

    Whey powder is messy, less convenient and doesn't taste particularly good IMO. As I recall, whey powder is also more caloric than greek yogurt per gram of protein even before you add it to a smoothie (which also has calories.)
    Uh, protein is the same as carbs: 4 cal/g. So 24g of whey protein is ~96 cal. Usually a little more because some fat sneaks in, so realistically more like 120 cal/24g, and it's designed to be drunk dissolved in plain water. Thus. . . no raspberry preserves "to make it more palatable" at 50 cal/Tblsp. So then with 2 T you're up to 260 instead of 120. Do that 3 times a day and you've got 780 instead of 360. Which is the reason people use whey protein to increase that macro in their diet. Thank you.

    Edit: I just looked it up online, and TJ's Nonfat Greek Yogurt runs 188 cal/24g protein, so their 2% must be a good bit higher than that. More likely, your 160 cal is for the 14g protein serving size.
    Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 02-24-14 at 09:06 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Uh, protein is the same as carbs: 4 cal/g. So 24g of whey protein is ~96 cal.
    I have both in the kitchen and am looking at them right now. FWIW, I've found a wide range of protein content in greek yogurt so it pays to look at the nutrition label.

    TJ's 2% greek yogurt - 160 calories / 24g protein (227g)
    TJ's Vanilla Flavored Whey Protein Powder - 130 calories / 16g protein (31g)

    I don't think most people are dissolving their protein powder in water and drinking it straight up. That would be even worse than eating plain greek yogurt. My raspberry preserves are 30 calories per Tbsp and are completely optional. I'm not a body builder so I'm only eating greek yogurt after rides. The fat free TJ greek yogurt is 120 calories and 22g of protein if you really want to limit your calories but I don't care for fat free dairy. A lot of brands sneak in refined carbohydrate when they remove the fat which drives up the calorie count.
    Last edited by Dunbar; 02-24-14 at 11:46 PM.

  9. #84
    Senior Member MEversbergII's Avatar
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    As of late I've been blending it into homemade kefir.

    M.

  10. #85
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    I have both in the kitchen and am looking at them right now. FWIW, I've found a wide range of protein content in greek yogurt so it pays to look at the nutrition label.

    TJ's 2% greek yogurt - 160 calories / 24g protein (227g)
    TJ's Vanilla Flavored Whey Protein Powder - 130 calories / 16g protein (31g)

    I don't think most people are dissolving their protein powder in water and drinking it straight up. That would be even worse than eating plain greek yogurt. My raspberry preserves are 30 calories per Tbsp and are completely optional. I'm not a body builder so I'm only eating greek yogurt after rides. The fat free TJ greek yogurt is 120 calories and 22g of protein if you really want to limit your calories but I don't care for fat free dairy. A lot of brands sneak in refined carbohydrate when they remove the fat which drives up the calorie count.
    As CarbonFiberboy pointed out, protein has 4 calories per gram - it doesn't matter what it's source or form is...

    The Whey protein from Trader Joe's has 8 calories per gram (130cal / 16g = 8.125cal/g)

    The nutrition label shows where the the difference lies: Yes, the 31gram serving has 16gram of protein, but it also 11gram of carbs -- including 8grams of sugar...

    Maybe they should change the name to: "Trader Joe's Whey Protein Powder and Sugar"?
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  11. #86
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    I have both in the kitchen and am looking at them right now. FWIW, I've found a wide range of protein content in greek yogurt so it pays to look at the nutrition label.

    TJ's 2% greek yogurt - 160 calories / 24g protein (227g)
    TJ's Vanilla Flavored Whey Protein Powder - 130 calories / 16g protein (31g)

    I don't think most people are dissolving their protein powder in water and drinking it straight up. That would be even worse than eating plain greek yogurt. My raspberry preserves are 30 calories per Tbsp and are completely optional. I'm not a body builder so I'm only eating greek yogurt after rides. The fat free TJ greek yogurt is 120 calories and 22g of protein if you really want to limit your calories but I don't care for fat free dairy. A lot of brands sneak in refined carbohydrate when they remove the fat which drives up the calorie count.
    Yes, I see that now. TJ's has added so much protein powder to their product that it is almost indistinguishable from the dry protein powders. I have a tub of Phase8 whey/casein blend that's 150 calories for that same 24g protein. Almost indistinguishable.

    One major difference is that the designer whey and casein proteins have various added amino acids to improve response, and they say what they are and how much on the label.

    Another difference is the price: I buy ON Gold Standard whey for $0.72 for that same 24g protein. 120 calories. Somehow I think the TJ's yogurt protein is 3-4 times that price.

    And yes, people do use these designer whey and casein proteins dissolved in plain water, and they taste really good that way. That's the way they're designed to be used. I like the vanilla ice cream and rich chocolate flavors. "Mix one scoop of ____ with 6-8 oz. of water or your favorite beverage." Mixes easily with a spoon. I can afford to have some with every meal, after workouts, and before bed.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    As CarbonFiberboy pointed out, protein has 4 calories per gram - it doesn't matter what it's source or form is...
    In the real world protein powders have more than just protein in them. I don't know why that's so hard for you guys to understand...

    Eat all the protein powder you want. I think it tastes gross, is messy and inconvenient. BTW, I see no protein powder listed on the ingredient list of my greek yogurt. The greek yogurt costs $1.25 per cup (24g protein.)
    Last edited by Dunbar; 02-25-14 at 11:44 AM.

  13. #88
    Senior Member MEversbergII's Avatar
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    I've had yogurt that has protein powder added. I don't think they call it as such, though.

    I get my whey from True Nutrition. It comes with whey protein isolate and soy lecithin. Nothing else. 28.5g / scoop, 114 calories / scoop.

    M.

  14. #89
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    Between trolls like the guy who says fertilizer is not used in today's farming, seed companies that are trying out new and wonderful genetic models, companies manufacturing all kinds of products and doing their best to make sure the customer doesn't really know what is in them, and the vast amounts of money involved it becomes a JOB to make good choices.

    I've only listed a small part of the people who have their hands in our pockets grabbing coins. Personally, having been on the farm and having family on it now I follow the advice I gave a few posts ago. But, even then we are such short lived and complicated creatures it is hard to know what has long term harm and what doesn't. As we learn more over time choices get better IF we pay attention.

    Whey protein shakes? Yes, indeed. IF you pick the protein with the minimum added ingredients. But, eating is not a black and white thing. Lots of grey. That is made tolerable by understanding that we were born to die. So, choices are generally on quality rather than on quantity of life. With some exceptions of course, like smoking.

  15. #90
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    I seem to have started a debate!

  16. #91
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    One more time... if you want protein powder, buy protein powder. No sugar, no added fat,
    no artificial sweeteners. Lecithin is OK.

    Basic whey is about 120 calories a serving, the isolates are about 110 (a little less fat)
    and the best is about 90 calories (and extremely expensive).

    Said it before, and I'll say it again, cyclists don't need it. But it is a nice convenience.
    Someone mentioned a protein blend that is 50/50 whey and casein. As long as the quality
    is good, that works. I linked to the proteins I am using earlier. I think they offer good bang for
    the buck. Be careful, there is a lot of bad crap out there. Avoid weird ingredients, a lot of protein
    powders have them.
    We are as gods, we might as well get good at it.
    Stewart Brand

  17. #92
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    The thing is that if a person is getting enough protein from real whole foods, then there is no need to supplement with protein powders. Bodybuilding and fitness magazines are the worst offenders for promoting protein supplements, they have to promote them because they are sponsored by nutritional supplement companies. This whole idea of post-workout protein shake has become a dogma and there are thousands of opinions about it. But is it really necessary ??.. Old school bodybuilders from 1940's, 50's and 60's didn't have fast digesting whey protein supplements and they build some amazing strong athletic bodies. Those guys had real strength. They got all their protein from meat, milk cheese, eggs and fish. Notice that all of these whole foods are slow digesting protein, and not fast absorbing protein like whey powders. People are always looking for some miracle pill or powder to give them fast results and increase their performance. It's doesn't work that way because human body is meant to live on real whole foods and not isolated nutrients.
    Whey is a fast digesting protein found in milk...

  18. #93
    Why not? EthanYQX's Avatar
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    Whole food is probably better, but who has time for that?

    the Musclepharm Combat Powder is my favourite so far. Doesn't dissolve very well though honestly. Use a blender.
    "It is not the critic who counts."

  19. #94
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EthanYQX View Post
    Whole food is probably better, but who has time for that?
    Probability..... the same people that have time to: play with their kids, pet the dog, show up early for work, call their mother from time-to-time, change the oil in car themselves, Christmas shop early, teach Sunday School, volunteer at the bicycle Co-Op, attend Mayor/counsel meetings, have romantic dates, and cooking delicious meals.

    Being a poor time manager.... isn't a convincing marking plan for your Musclepharm Combat Powder. There are BUNCHES of things normal people would give up before giving up decent food and romantic relationships. Maybe... you might want to look into a time management class.

  20. #95
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
    Between trolls like the guy who says fertilizer is not used in today's farming,......
    Sorry HawkOwl. Not trying to signal you out.... but your lack of agricultural knowledge (or even familiarity) is staggering! You switch from referring to chemicals (TONS of them as it was put) to fertilizer.... and apparently have no idea what the difference is. The assumptions you make about farming... and food crops... has nothing to do with reality.

    I am sure you've gathered you information that you are using as a knowledge base in full faith... read from somewhere. As... likely someone else might be building a knowledge base reading what you've posted. But it is a false base! You are completely misinformed and have absolutely NO working knowledge of agricultural processes in America or anywhere else.
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 03-31-14 at 06:23 AM.

  21. #96
    Why not? EthanYQX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    Probability..... the same people that have time to: play with their kids, pet the dog, show up early for work, call their mother from time-to-time, change the oil in car themselves, Christmas shop early, teach Sunday School, volunteer at the bicycle Co-Op, attend Mayor/counsel meetings, have romantic dates, and cooking delicious meals.

    Being a poor time manager.... isn't a convincing marking plan for your Musclepharm Combat Powder. There are BUNCHES of things normal people would give up before giving up decent food and romantic relationships. Maybe... you might want to look into a time management class.
    I was being somewhat tongue in cheek and actually offering useful advice, but since you decided to be a preachy knob, here we go.

    I train twice a day, bare minimum, while working every day. One training session is heavy strength work, the other is either conditioning or sport specific work, generally both. A slight caloric deficit, which I'm using right now, for me is roughly 4500kcals. Aside from the shakes, I'm eating 2 eggs, bacon and milk every morning, about a thousand calories worth of chicken and quinoa at noon and usually a steak and sweet potatoes at night. That is a lot of food, and there simply isn't an easier way to consume the same thing every time, right before a training session, than to make a shake with protein powder. It's not a question of "time management", it's a question of doing what has to be done to be competitive while balancing life and making a good income. Something a lot of people don't understand.
    "It is not the critic who counts."

  22. #97
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EthanYQX View Post
    I was being somewhat tongue in cheek and actually offering useful advice, but since you decided to be a preachy knob, here we go.

    I train twice a day, bare minimum, while working every day. One training session is heavy strength work, the other is either conditioning or sport specific work, generally both. A slight caloric deficit, which I'm using right now, for me is roughly 4500kcals. Aside from the shakes, I'm eating 2 eggs, bacon and milk every morning, about a thousand calories worth of chicken and quinoa at noon and usually a steak and sweet potatoes at night. That is a lot of food, and there simply isn't an easier way to consume the same thing every time, right before a training session, than to make a shake with protein powder. It's not a question of "time management", it's a question of doing what has to be done to be competitive while balancing life and making a good income. Something a lot of people don't understand.
    Wow... here I spent 30 years thinking just working 80 hours a week was normal. Guess I didn't realize how easy I had it.

  23. #98
    Why not? EthanYQX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    Wow... here I spent 30 years thinking just working 80 hours a week was normal. Guess I didn't realize how easy I had it.
    36 hours a week for me. Don't really care how much harder than me you work, it's not relevant to the topic at hand.

    If you've got a reasonably demonstrable reason not to use protein shakes for extra calories, go ahead and offer it up, but a bunch of stuff about your priorities isn't really relevant to the question at hand. On top of that, athletes are generally not balanced, healthy people. Competitive sport is destructive to every other part of life.

    I'm icing my knee so I can walk properly at work tomorrow, having competed this weekend and gotten injured (again), so I apologize if I come off a bit snippy. I just don't get the point in your first response to me.
    "It is not the critic who counts."

  24. #99
    Senior Member yote223's Avatar
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    I like a home-made Egg Nog. It's a nice hit of protein and sugars.

    2 eggs
    2 cups milk
    1/4 cup sugar
    2 tsp vanilla
    a good dash of nutmeg

    Put in a shaker glass or blender and enjoy!
    It's hard to soar with the Eagles when you're flying with Turkeys
    Charter Member of PSIP Coalition.

  25. #100
    Senior Member Astrozombie's Avatar
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    Thanks for reminding me TC! I just got back from a 3hr walk and haven't had my shake!

    I use Optimum Nutrition protein and multi-vitamin
    Assume nothing; Question everything

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