Monstermunch

Hi guys,
I've been racing I'm Road and Mtb for about 4 years now and the last year or so I have been having real issues. About a year ago went through a really stressful family problems and lost quite a bit of weight. I. Dropped to 168 pounds at 9% body fat. Im 6ft tall. I started having binges like once a week, I don't like the word binge cause it's not that I eat everything in site. It's like cravings, but cravings for chocolate or sweet things and once it starts there is no stopping it. It's like an empty pit. I'll eat 3 energy bars a bag of chocolate coated raisins and a bag of jelly beans. Then just like that it dissappears and I won't want it anymore. Problem is I plow through about 2500 calories in one sitting. My training programme is like such:
Avg about 17 - 20 hours a week cycling.
Mixture of hard day and easy zone 2 days
Gym twice a week as well.
On a normal day I eat between 3500 to 4200 calories. I'm not sure if that's enough and if that's why I have these episodes once a week and most of the time it's on a rest day. I'm currently 180 pounds and about 10.5%body fat tested with calipers. I hope someone can help as it's really frustrating.

Machka 

One idea might be to keep fruit and veggies in the house, and not bags of chocolate coated raisins and bags of jelly beans. And if you want junk food ... cycle or walk to get it.

3500-4200 seems high ... are you gaining weight, maintaining your weight or losing weight? What do you want to do?

beatlebee 

Some people find that craving for sweets are actually cravings for protein. YMMV

Monstermunch

That is the thing though I do not keep any of that in the house. I eat very clean besides that. No sugary drinks, I don't even have butter on toast, hell I hardly ever eat bread. I'd like to lose weight. I actually drive to get the stuff that's how bad it hits me.

Monstermunch

I get a lot of protein. I also take multivitamins, omega 3, iron complex and magnesium. I get about 220g protein a day.

Machka 

Well, don't drive to get it. Walk or cycle to get it.

And yes, sometimes cravings for sweets can be a need for protein in disguise. Before, putting on the walking shoes or hopping on the bicycle, have a handful of nuts, make a chicken sandwich ... eat a bit of protein.

Monstermunch

Is 3500 - 4200 really a lot? Makes me worry that I'm over eating. But I get really hungry. If I burn +-2000 calories on a 4 hour ride according to my 510 and my bmr is somewhere in the region of 1900 - 2200 according to all the calculators, maybe I need to really reevaluate my diet.

Machka 

2000 calories on a 4 hour ride is probably about right. But your resting metabolic rate is probably down around 1500 calories ... maybe as much as 1800 calories.

So if you assume it is 1800 calories for 24 hours, and you go for a 4 hour ride ...

1800/24 = 75 calories per hour * 20 hours (the time you're not very active) = 1500 (resting calories burned) + 2000 (the calories you've burned cycling for 4 hours) = 3500. That's for one of your more active days.

But you've got to calculate it out over a week.

You said you cycle as much as 20 hours per week. 20/7 = 2.85 hours/day.

So using the calculation above ... 75 calories per hour * 21.15 non active hours = 1586.25 (resting calories burned) + (500 calories per hour * 2.85 hours) = 3011.25 per day averaged out over the week.

These numbers are, of course, rough estimates. And if you include the gym and other activity, maybe you are burning a bit more. But if you're gaining weight and looking to lose weight, I'd aim to consume maybe approx. 3000 calories a day and see how that goes.

3000 calories is quite a lot of food.

Oh, and it's OK to be hungry. We don't have to be full all the time. Nothing bad is going to happen to you if you're hungry for a couple hours between meals.

GeorgeBMac

That's a lot of protein. The recommendation (for people with normal activity) is: .8g/Kg - 1.0g/Kg. For you that equates to 76g of protein a day not 220g. True, you are active and need more. But nearly three times more?

I would look at your overall diet and see how protein, fats and carbs balance out. One of the IPhone apps can help you do that by tracking everything that goes into your mouth and reporting back the macro and micro nutrients you are really taking in.

Also, I find for myself: if I get a craving for a sugary food (such as jelly beans) all I have to do is eat a couple -- and then I am off to the races. I can't stop myself. Perhaps it is the first bites that are triggering your 2000+ calorie binges rather than a general craving?

Monstermunch

thanks Machka that does make sense. Im not gaining weight I've been here for a few months now, but my ideal racing weight is about 168 -169. That's where i perform my best, so id like to be there. i will try and maintain the 3000 calories for a week or so and see what happens. I do understand you don't have to be full all the time, but there have been times where im so hungry im unable to sleep. i go to gym to build strength, so granted i will be heavier due to muscle mass as that was what i was aiming for. that's why i have maintained a lowish body fat percentage. look obviously the lighter i can be and the higher power i can put out the better thats why im so concerned about the episodes.

Monstermunch

I do track what i eat with the myfitnesspal app, im very anal with what i eat... so i get so frustrated when the episodes happen and i have no control. I do eat very low sugar and low fat, could this be a reason for everything? I dont eat junk food, everything i eat is whole foods. Im Diabetic as well so you can also understand when the sugar demon hits. it usually starts with eating the energy bar first as im craving something sweet, so its possible that thats the problem, but its mostly on Mondays which are rest days and every now and then it will be after 2x 3hour ride days in a row.

this week will be a 17:30h week,
Monday = rest day
Tuesday = 2:30h hill training / Gym morning
Wednesday = 3h easy
Thursday = 3h hard group ride
Friday = 1:30h easy / Gym afternoon
Saturday = 4h hills and tempo
Sunday = 4h easy

beatlebee 

You are putting in a ton of work, hence you are going to be hungry. Especially when you go at higher intensity or lift. Many people find that dropping weight is easier during base as the intensity is low and the hunger pangs don't strike as hard.

If you are really ~10% body fat, you will find it hard to go much lower. Not that it is impossible but the body will fight it. Some experts recommend Omega 3's to help balance the hormones and higher protein intake during weight loss. (See Lyle McDonald.) Your protein intake is sufficient though.

GeorgeBMac

I experience a similar problem: when I sit down at night I tend to get a lot of overwhelming cravings -- even though I am not hungry, I have cravings to eat a lot -- mostly junk.

Two things have helped me during these 'off' times:
1) Keep busy and distracted by doing stuff -- like work on my bikes or other chores. But if I just sit, the cravings come back.
2) Keep my belly full with low-calorie, high nutrient stuff like fruit and vege snacks. But, once I pop a sweet thing into my mouth, it is guaranteed that more will follow. A LOT more.

therhodeo

If you're going to snack buy things that have fiber that way they naturally regulate how much you can actually eat. Carrots are a good one I find.

Monstermunch

Well i can only go by what i was told when i was tested, i have checked myself with a accumeasure caliper and come in at 9.7% on their graph, Ive also done the three site test and actually get a lower percentage so lets call it in that region. I have realised on a few occasions previously felt like my body was " eating itself " , only way i can explain it. After searching the net the symptoms seem to resemble what the body builders describe as ketosis. but it doesnt happen often. the weird thing is after the binge i feel terrible, like super tired and and body ache, joints and muscles. i just wish i had a proper solution and not just guesstimates, because its driving me crazy. everything goin brilliant then boom!

Monstermunch

The thing is they on purposely eat super low carb to get there, i eat alot of carbs some days in the 480g or more range. i just eat lower carb at dinner.

therhodeo

You say you eat low sugar and low fat. Just how low fat?

Monstermunch

Less than 80g a day on avg. 100g on a really bad day.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, definitely the problem is low fat. Low sugar is OK. If you feel strong, with your schedule you are probably getting enough carbohydrates. Bring the fat up to 20%-25% and I think your problem will go away. Low fat as an ideal diet has been abandoned for about a decade by all but a few. I went through exactly the same thing about 15 years ago. Increasing the fat in my diet made a huge difference. Getting more good fat into the diet can be a challenge for people who eat mostly a plant-based diet. We increased our oils and eat more cheese and nuts. My blood lipids are still ideal and my blood sugar more stable.

The latest thinking is to eat no more than 3-4 meals a day. Then you should be hungry for no more than 30 minutes to an hour before the next meal. More than that and you didn't eat enough, especially enough fat at the last meal. I don't count a recovery drink or a small amount of protein at bed time as a meal.

Monstermunch

So you also had the sugar binges? That's very interesting as I've been diabetic for about 20 years and just never went off the low fat diet that the dietitian always gave when I was young. So thought that's the way to stay. So if I double my fat intake the cravings should dissappear? My favourite thing is peanut butter so maybe I'll just double up on the spoon I put in my oatmeal. And add some cheese and nuts to my diet.

therhodeo

Just make sure you're getting good fats. My favorites sources are nuts and avacados (guacamole).

Carbonfiberboy 

Not exactly like you, but I'd get hungry and eat again, much too often, which drove my total calories up. So I didn't binge, just ate enough to make the hunger go away, but it came right back.

wolfchild

Not a lot, I think it's normal for a physically active person to eat 4000+ calories per day.... The problem is that most of your calories are from carbs, some of them "junk carbs" and that's why you're having constant cravings. You need to add more fat into your diet. Don't be scared of adding butter, olive oil, coconut oil, avocados, eggs, nuts and oily fish to your diet...You said that you're only getting 80 grams of fat and 480 grams of carbs with 220 grams of protein. Why don't you increase you fat intake to 160 grams and decrease your carbs to 380 grams and keep your protein at around 180 grams...160+380+180= 3520 calories, if you need any more calories then just add more fat to your diet.

sprince

That really changes everything. Type 1 or type 2? Take insulin?

Monstermunch

Type 1, insulin 3 times a day.