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-   -   Pre-Morning Workout Meal Problems (http://www.bikeforums.net/training-nutrition/935270-pre-morning-workout-meal-problems.html)

HawkOwl 02-27-14 01:48 PM

Literally thousands of military personnel have been successfully trained and have performed with significant exercise before breakfast. In fact, I would say, based on real life experience, that those who have no other medical issues and must eat before exercise are the abnormal ones.

Not only is significant work before breaking a fast normal, it is a valuable attribute. If you have trained your body to eat before stress how in the world are you going to handle the unexpected if it happens just before your scheduled meal? Accidents, earthquakes, fires, falls, etc. don't happen around your meal schedule.

Carbonfiberboy 02-28-14 12:00 PM

You could also ask a sports nutritionist rather than random people on the internet, like this guy:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a...orts-nutrition

That's basically what I've always done. Works for me. Lost 12 lbs. in 5 months while eating a good breakfast.

Fat Boy 02-28-14 12:35 PM

Hmmm...I guess I wouldn't call Pubmed research as 'some guy on the internet'.

Johnathon Vaughters also had an article that recommended the fasted training at times. Again, just 'some guy', but one that you might want to listen to.

Carbonfiberboy 02-28-14 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Boy (Post 16535822)
Hmmm...I guess I wouldn't call Pubmed research as 'some guy on the internet'.

Johnathon Vaughters also had an article that recommended the fasted training at times. Again, just 'some guy', but one that you might want to listen to.

Well, I've done that too. But for a specific purpose and certainly not as a daily practice. It works for specific short-term goals, but it's not healthy when done continuously, nor will it improve performance. Starving your body of nutrients is not a performance-enhancer.

Looking for that Pubmed link for long-term results of continual fasted training . . .

wolfchild 02-28-14 06:47 PM

I wonder who came up with this fantasy that breakfast is the most important meal of the day ??...
Skipping breakfast and intermittent fasting is not the same as starvation. Controlled fasting has some benefits which include:
- detoxification and cleansing
- Your bodies enzyme pool is replenished
- Keeps your insulin stable which means that your body is more efficient at metabolising fats and carbs
- Glucagon ( a fat burning hormone) increases
- HGH increases
- Your body becomes very efficient at using fat for energy
- your body becomes more efficient at absorbing nutrients and protein when you do eat after your fast.

I am not saying that eating a healthy breakfast is bad, what I am saying is that it's not a necessity. It just feels good waking up in the morning and knowing that I have enough energy to start my day and keep going for many hours without eating breakfast.

If you want to eat breakfast then at least have some protein with some fat. All those commercial boxed breakfast cereals are no different then eating halloween candies.

Rowan 02-28-14 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfchild (Post 16536838)
I wonder who came up with this fantasy that breakfast is the most important meal of the day ??...
------
All those commercial boxed breakfast cereals are no different then eating halloween candies.

I think you answered your own question.

Fat Boy 02-28-14 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 16535989)
Well, I've done that too. But for a specific purpose and certainly not as a daily practice. It works for specific short-term goals, but it's not healthy when done continuously, nor will it improve performance. Starving your body of nutrients is not a performance-enhancer.

Looking for that Pubmed link for long-term results of continual fasted training . . .


I never said it was some sort of training panacea. I said I do it at times. I also noted that some types of fasted training seems to work better than others for me. It does everything that Wolf mentioned. I personally can't adequately fuel threshold work while fasted. Perhaps others can. It's definitely worth playing with.

Now since I'm not going to be around the rest of the evening, let me make a couple more statements.

1. Water is wet.
2. The sky is blue.

There, now you can have plenty to argue against in my absence.

Machka 02-28-14 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16517912)
I'm writing about my wife, who is an excellent runner. She runs in the morning. She has a bad reaction to breakfast. I spoke to her about eating something before running. If she eats anything at all, she experiences what she calls a "crash". Low energy. It is as if she experiences low blood sugar. She eats very healthily. She says cereal is the worst and she never eats it. She runs in the morning without eating anything. I have worked out without eating and done ok, but usually I eat something;maybe a Clif Bar or Ezekiel muffin with almond butter. I do try to wait at least two hours between eating and working out. But, I can;t figure out what my wife is going through. Any ideas?

Can any of you imagine eating a Clif Bar and then going for a run??? Blech ... makes me feel sick just thinking about it. Might as well eat a brick and have that lodged in your stomach for the duration of the run!

Let's keep in mind that we're talking about someone who is running ... not cycling.


Equinox ... is your wife having some sort of difficulty when she does not eat before her run? Or is she fine when she does not eat before her run?

How long are her runs?

Does she eat when she returns from her run?

Wesley36 02-28-14 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16518379)
But I do well with cereal. My base is Kashi Go Lean. That's gotta be better than Cocoa Puffs, right.

That is a really really low bar. Kashi, like pretty much all commercial cereals, is very close to candy - it is loaded with sugars. Cocoa puffs are candy.

Don in Austin 02-28-14 09:14 PM

I love a good hearty breakfast on a workout or cycling morning. A good hearty breakfast AFTER the ride or workout. I am best with only coffee for up to 40 miles. if I eat much at all I am queasy and weak trying to ride hard or work out at the gym.


Don in Austin

Equinox 03-02-14 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley36 (Post 16537055)
That is a really really low bar. Kashi, like pretty much all commercial cereals, is very close to candy - it is loaded with sugars. Cocoa puffs are candy.

When I have cereal, it is second breakfast/first lunch. It is working for me with no discern able negative effects, but I do modify it a lot. Out of curiosity, what would you eat instead of cereal?

Wesley36 03-02-14 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16540707)
When I have cereal, it is second breakfast/first lunch. It is working for me with no discern able negative effects, but I do modify it a lot. Out of curiosity, what would you eat instead of cereal?

Most days I put steelcut oats in a slowcooker on low before I go to bed, have oats ready to go in the morning. To add more protein and fat I add in extra virgin coconut oil, sunflower seeds, amaranth, walnuts, almonds, and a bit of cinnamon and salt. Oh, and I usually add some maple syrup when I eat it.

This is also easy to make: http://www.veggirlrd.com/holy-crap-t...-is-delicious/

And this takes more time/ effort to make, but it also pretty healthy (I like to make it with quinoa more than oats):
http://healthyblenderrecipes.com/rec...innamon_cereal

Machka 03-03-14 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16540707)
When I have cereal, it is second breakfast/first lunch. It is working for me with no discern able negative effects, but I do modify it a lot. Out of curiosity, what would you eat instead of cereal?

Yeah great ... breakfast works for you. But this thread is about your wife, and you haven't answered our questions.

See Post #33 .

EthanYQX 03-03-14 09:10 PM

Fasted training is fine if it works for her. I haven't found anything that I can eat and then do cardio work right after. Gatorade or something is a decent way to get some sugars and stuff in pre workout that doesn't sit too heavily.

I used to do all of my powerlifting work fasted, in fact. High-ish intensity but low volume. Wasn't ideal but it worked. Now I use a protein powder and milk beforehand because I train after work now.

Equinox 03-06-14 09:06 AM

First of all, I never thought breakfast was the most important meal of the day. I often feel worse on days that I eat breakfast. I would often run or ride on an empty stomach. Then I read about eating a light breakfast 2 - 3 hrs before my workout, and I noticed my performance improved. My wife's performance has been deteriorating and I thought that replenishing her glycogen might be helpful, but she can't find anything that agrees with her. She REALLY crashes after breakfast. I don't know if it is a post-prandial issue or insulin sensitivity. It is entirely possible her performance deterioration is due to other, non-related reasons.

Carbonfiberboy 03-06-14 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16553538)
First of all, I never thought breakfast was the most important meal of the day. I often feel worse on days that I eat breakfast. I would often run or ride on an empty stomach. Then I read about eating a light breakfast 2 - 3 hrs before my workout, and I noticed my performance improved. My wife's performance has been deteriorating and I thought that replenishing her glycogen might be helpful, but she can't find anything that agrees with her. She REALLY crashes after breakfast. I don't know if it is a post-prandial issue or insulin sensitivity. It is entirely possible her performance deterioration is due to other, non-related reasons.

Another suggestion: have her try an Ensure 2-3 hours before, then a gel immediately before. Or if she uses a belt, take a Hammer Gel flask with her.

Rowan 03-07-14 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox (Post 16553538)
First of all, I never thought breakfast was the most important meal of the day. I often feel worse on days that I eat breakfast. I would often run or ride on an empty stomach. Then I read about eating a light breakfast 2 - 3 hrs before my workout, and I noticed my performance improved. My wife's performance has been deteriorating and I thought that replenishing her glycogen might be helpful, but she can't find anything that agrees with her. She REALLY crashes after breakfast. I don't know if it is a post-prandial issue or insulin sensitivity. It is entirely possible her performance deterioration is due to other, non-related reasons.

You didn't indicate a deterioration in her performance in your previous post. That might have been helpful. How often is she running? Every day? What distances?

Deterioration of performance might be from overtraining. Is her resting heart-rate higher than normal? Is she having trouble getting her heart rate up when she runs? Either/or of those questions may indicate overtraining.

How old she?

travelerman 03-07-14 06:48 AM

If I am riding early or soon after waking up, some coffee and a banana are all I need. If I am going on a long-ish (over 35 miles) ride, I also eat on the road - Bonk Breakers, or items provided at rest stops if it is an organized ride. I make sure I had a good meal the evening before I - but not an American-sized enormous-portion garbage meal, cuz I really do not enjoy having a gut to try to unload during a long ride.

i really prefer to ride about three hours after getting up, or early in the afternoon after a light lunch. I can't speak to running, since I absolutely abhor it.


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