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CanadianBiker32 03-12-14 06:33 PM

Body Water % That is proper for age of male
 
I am confused to what I should have to be considered a healthy body water %

I have one of those scales that measure, body fat, muscle, mass, weight and body water, just from standing on it.

I know its not 100% accurate but gives ball park figures

my average water percentage is 56%

I weight about 171 lbs or on average 77kg. with 17 to 18 body fat reading and a 68% for muscle mass apparently
being a male 36 at 5'7.

Is my body water rate ok? or should i be higher? i been drinking more and more water but get same water readings?

What should be considered a good healthy body water % to get to?

and would it work to drink more and more water?

Dudelsack 03-12-14 08:03 PM

The human kidney is pretty good at sorting this stuff out. If you're thirsty, drink up. Pee it out as required.

Carbonfiberboy 03-12-14 08:25 PM

You can ignore the exact numbers to some extent. I have one of these scales also. Normal male muscle mass is ~40%-42%. Normal body water is 57%-60%. So don't treat the numbers as real. Just use them as a guide to see changes in body composition. For that, I think these scales are reasonably accurate. But not for absolute values. Mine bounces around a few tenths for everything, no particular pattern.

I don't think you can affect your body water percent by drinking more. Our bodies are pretty good at maintaining water and electrolyte stores, no great surprise. If you were badly dehydrated it might show, but that would show more clearly in your weight. In any case, the thinking now is that the 8 glasses a day is BS. Drink when you're thirsty. Flooding your body with water can drive down your electrolytes in spite of your body's best efforts to tell you that it is not thirsty.

Ursa Minor 03-13-14 08:25 AM

If you are worried about dehydration just drink enough so that your pee is clear not dark.

Charlie

Coachtj Cormier 03-13-14 08:50 AM

Drink when you're thirsty. Flooding your body with water can drive down your electrolytes in spite of your body's best efforts to tell you that it is not thirsty.[/QUOTE]

It should be drink before you're thirsty! If you wait till you're already thirsty it's too late, same with food eat before you're hungry.
As far as diluting your electrolytes (hyponutreina (bad spelling) is not that common among cyclists so souldn't be a big worry, if you're drinking any type of CHO drink/bards/gels they normaly have enough electrolytes to get you through.
Dehydration is a bigger issue and very common. Many people are chronicly dehydrated (using A/C and closed HVAC systems ).
As we get older the thirst response slows down so you really need to be aware of hydration, the color of your urian is a good indicator (clear OK brownish not)

Carbonfiberboy 03-13-14 11:11 AM

First four hits on google to "drink when you are thirsty":

Fact or Fiction? You Must Drink 8 Glasses of Water Daily - Scientific American
Five Myths About Drinking Water : NPR
It's fine to drink only when thirsty - 12 Myths and Facts About Incontinence - Health.com
BBC News - Do you really need to drink eight cups of water a day?

It's now well-accepted that minor dehydration (2%-3%) does not impair performance, in fact among cyclists studies show that it improves performance, probably because of the loss of body weight. One is too dehydrated and definitely needs to drink and cool off when one stops sweating: this is the danger point.

I have tested this theory on many long, hot rides. I drink when thirsty and eat when hungry and have been doing it this way since 1999. AFAIK, the Hammer Nutrition folks were the first to tell their athletes to do this. "Less is more."

All that said, urine color can be a guide if it matters. Mostly, it doesn't. Mine will run clearer during a ride than at work or hanging around the house. During a ride, I make sure I pee about every 3 hours or 50 miles. That usually coincides with brevet controls and rest stops. At home or work, I don't worry about it, since just a few cups of coffee and tea or juice with meals more than takes care of my hydration needs. If I were a roofer in Arizona, I'd drink more.

Wesley36 03-13-14 11:51 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachtj Cormier (Post 16573935)
It should be drink before you're thirsty! If you wait till you're already thirsty it's too late, same with food eat before you're hungry.

Sorry, this is bad and dangerous advice. It is based on outdated scientific research, that has been disproven well beyond the shadow of a doubt.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=368606

In particular, I would like to highlight the following (from here: http://nutsci.org/2011/03/03/athlete...your-thirst/):
Quote:

Noakes’ isn’t aware of a single case in the last 20 years of serious illness or death from dehydration per se in athletes, but there are at least 12 deathes from exercise-associated hyponatraemia (EAH) and encephalopathy (EAHE) (which Noakes’ & colleagues discovered 20 years ago and is only now becoming more seriously appreciated). The 2007 ACSM position now finally advices drinking to thirst.

Carbonfiberboy 03-13-14 12:25 PM

To clarify the above as it pertains to endurance athletes, here's the Hammer advice, paraphrased:

The important thing in all this is that maintaining a proper fluid/electrolyte balance is important for health and performance. Actual hydration levels are not as important as this balance.

But how to maintain it? Here's how: You should pee every 2-3 hours. If that's not happening, you need to increase fluid intake. Yet you should still drink to thirst. Therefore what you need is more electrolytes, so increase whatever you're using for that purpose. I use Endurolytes. There are many good products, but this is the reason I separate electrolytes from fluids. The proportion changes with activity and temperature. Anyway, when you increase your electrolytes, you'll get thirsty and drinking to thirst will have you peeing at the proper intervals again.

It's the peeing interval you want to keep track of. It takes experience to get this dialed in, but it's the solution to most of the stomach problems that can plague the endurance athlete.

Coachtj Cormier 03-14-14 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley36 (Post 16574546)
Sorry, this is bad and dangerous advice. It is based on outdated scientific research, that has been disproven well beyond the shadow of a doubt.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=368606

In particular, I would like to highlight the following (from here: http://nutsci.org/2011/03/03/athlete...your-thirst/):

Outdated? I think not. There is plenty of research out there on dehydration and how it affects sports performance. At the 2012 NSCA national convention there were muliple presnetations and round table dissussions on heat stress and deyhydration,(most had little focus on hyponutrinea as it is rare and rarer still among cyclists as we are pretty good at using sports drinks and such) that back up my advice(Look at the work of L Armstrong (not the athlete)). You have to drink an awful lot of water (or have an underying issue for that.
Even a 4-5% drop in hydration will have a negittive effect on sports perfromance. Ever watch (US) football in hot weather they often get IV's of saline to combat dehydration.
I can only think of 1 case of hyponutrinea in recent years and that was at the Boston marathon a few years ago she died but
had numourous other contribiuting issues and yes she did drink and awful lot of water.
Mostly you will hear of wreslers (HS NCCA) working out in rubber suits without water to make weight many have died. Same with Football. Double sessions hot weather little water lead to big problems . MN Vikings OL died a few years back do to dehydration(granted there were some uther issues but that was the primanry cause of death)
Taking what Hammer Nutrition says as truth is very poor they are trying to sell a product not science I find their sports nutrition info very suspect. Alot of research contridicts what they say on thier web site, some of what they say as research isn't peer reviewed. It's a lot like late night weight loss infomecials "based on clinical research" but if you read the fine print(which is othen very hard ) it's BS. That said Hammer does have some oK products Idon't use them but I have clients that have (sports drinks and such I think they taste like crap but that's me)
ACSM is very respected I have attented NEACSM a few times but they seem to be a few steps behind (consevative) heck it's just within the last 10 years or so they started recmmending mulitple sets for strength training.
One last thing as we age our thirst response lessens so we don't feel the urge to drink(happens with children also) so waititng till we feel thirsty can be a bad thing.

Coachtj Cormier 03-14-14 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley36 (Post 16574546)
Sorry, this is bad and dangerous advice. It is based on outdated scientific research, that has been disproven well beyond the shadow of a doubt.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=368606

In particular, I would like to highlight the following (from here: http://nutsci.org/2011/03/03/athlete...your-thirst/):

Your link doesnet work(for me)

Carbonfiberboy 03-14-14 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachtj Cormier (Post 16576969)
Your link doesnet work(for me)

Athletes: obey your thirst | | nutsci.orgnutsci.org
and
Annals of Nutrition and Metabolism 2010, Vol. 57, Suppl. 2 - Is Drinking to Thirst Optimum? - FullText - Karger Publishers
work for me.

BF has changed the manner in which links are presented.

Carbonfiberboy 03-14-14 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachtj Cormier (Post 16576965)
<snip>
Taking what Hammer Nutrition says as truth is very poor they are trying to sell a product not science I find their sports nutrition info very suspect. Alot of research contridicts what they say on thier web site, some of what they say as research isn't peer reviewed. It's a lot like late night weight loss infomecials "based on clinical research" but if you read the fine print(which is othen very hard ) it's BS. That said Hammer does have some oK products Idon't use them but I have clients that have (sports drinks and such I think they taste like crap but that's me)<snip>

Most Hammer nutrition material is not about the use of their products. Rather it is generic advice. One can use their products to follow their advice or not. IME using vs. not using their products makes no difference to the validity of the advice.

For the scientifically minded, here's their article on general hydration and electrolytes, with sources:
The Endurolytes Rationale | Hammer Nutrition
More info:
Hydration - What You Need to Know | Hammer Nutrition
Less is Best - The right way to fuel | Hammer Nutrition

Coachtj Cormier 03-14-14 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 16577256)
Most Hammer nutrition material is not about the use of their products. Rather it is generic advice. One can use their products to follow their advice or not. IME using vs. not using their products makes no difference to the validity of the advice.

For the scientifically minded, here's their article on general hydration and electrolytes, with sources:
The Endurolytes Rationale | Hammer Nutrition
More info:
Hydration - What You Need to Know | Hammer Nutrition
Less is Best - The right way to fuel | Hammer Nutrition

Like I said I take info from a company wilt a large grain of salt. Even more so with Hammer.
I alomst put them in the same bag as a GNC not as bad but pretty close . But that's just me
I'm very skeptical of them even more so since there was a law suit against them for contaninated products.
Not sure how that went as it was settled pretty quick and I think both parties signed non disclosuer agrrements.
But like I said if you like thier stuff great. I'm not a fan and I think most of thier stuff is over kill (and over priced)

Carbonfiberboy 03-14-14 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachtj Cormier (Post 16577519)
Like I said I take info from a company wilt a large grain of salt. Even more so with Hammer.
I alomst put them in the same bag as a GNC not as bad but pretty close . But that's just me
I'm very skeptical of them even more so since there was a law suit against them for contaninated products.
Not sure how that went as it was settled pretty quick and I think both parties signed non disclosuer agrrements.
But like I said if you like thier stuff great. I'm not a fan and I think most of thier stuff is over kill (and over priced)

I use their Endurolytes. Very occasionally I use my Hammer Gel flask. I use their HEED - best sport drink for healthy teeth there is. My wife has digestion trouble when going hard. I'm trying Perpetuem with her. It's a maybe so far. I agree it's way overpriced. I know a tri-geek who spends $1,000/year there. What I do is read their labels and mix up my own. Can't do that with Endurolytes, HEED, and their gel. I never buy their caps. If they worked, they'd have competition all over the place. IME their science and nutrition recs are accurate, however. The knock-off products I mix for myself, following their recs, work great.

Coachtj Cormier 03-14-14 12:00 PM

Like I said not too impressed with thier science and I think that the drinks taste like crap Tried Heed and the other crap.
The recovery drink over priced and that's when I used to get a good deal on them. Never found that it had any impact on my recovery. The old Cliff bar recovery drink I thought was great but they no longer make it.

Black wallnut 03-14-14 12:31 PM

From personal experience the changes from slightly dehydrated to heat stroke are very subtle. That you are getting away with counting on coffee as part of your hydration plan is also IMHO troubling. Of course you live where it rarely gets hot and frequently rains. Dehydration dulls the senses and severe dehydration can present symptoms similar to severe intoxication.

Louis Le Tour 03-15-14 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudelsack (Post 16572763)
The human kidney is pretty good at sorting this stuff out. If you're thirsty, drink up. Pee it out as required.

Spot on.


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