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  1. #76
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Now can anyone tell me a bit about quinoa? Turns out I can't eat tree nuts, so I'm looking for another non-meat, low-fat protein source.
    Have you ever tried Kasha ( AKA Buckwheat ). It's a complete protein with all essential amino acids, high fibre, and a lot more nutritious then Quinoa. Kasha is also a lot cheaper then Quinoa and IMO it tastes a lot better.

  2. #77
    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    I found some veggies that will work. There aren't many individual serving, steamed vegetable options, but there is one that should work. I can take a package to work and heat it in the microwave.

    My boss (a competitive bodybuilder) eats asparagus and snow peas which he puts into a microwaveable container with a little bit of water and pops into the microwave for a minute or so. So that's an option too. Way back when, I used to do broccoli and cauliflower that way.
    I do a piece of baked meat with broccoli and put in microwave for 30-45 seconds, and let sit for a min before eating. The veggie is still firm, but soft.

  3. #78
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    I enjoy quinoa. I like putting it in a rice cooker (also eat more rice) with some vegetable broth, coconut oil/butter, and spices.
    It's good with veggies.

  4. #79
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    I've been doing steamed veggies and then mixing them with noodles or rice and sometimes a bit of chicken.

    Yesterday I was in the kitchen at work, and was just removing my steamed veggies from the microwave when a coworker walked in. She asked me some questions about where I got them and how much they cost, and how long it took to cook them, etc. etc.. As I was chatting with her, I was busy extracting them from the microwave and opening the package. Then I dumped them on the bowl of spicy Singapore noodles I had prepared just before she came in, and started mixing them ... and her reaction was great ... "Oh, that looks so good! I've never thought of doing that!!"

    We ate something similar when we were in Hong Kong, and I loved it. What I'm creating is probably not exactly that, but similar. It tastes great, and I'm getting 2 servings of veggies.

    She's the second coworker to ask me all sorts of questions about the steamed veggies.

  5. #80
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
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    Hippie food: White or bechamel sauce over brown rice with any steamed vegetable in between. I learned this one on Ibiza, back when witches lived on Formentera: fry chopped garlic, onion, carrots, and green pepper in butter until soft. Add cut up tomato and cook off a little of the water. Serve over brown rice. It's more than the sum of its parts.

  6. #81
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    I've been doing steamed veggies and then mixing them with noodles or rice and sometimes a bit of chicken.

    Yesterday I was in the kitchen at work, and was just removing my steamed veggies from the microwave when a coworker walked in. She asked me some questions about where I got them and how much they cost, and how long it took to cook them, etc. etc.. As I was chatting with her, I was busy extracting them from the microwave and opening the package. Then I dumped them on the bowl of spicy Singapore noodles I had prepared just before she came in, and started mixing them ... and her reaction was great ... "Oh, that looks so good! I've never thought of doing that!!"

    We ate something similar when we were in Hong Kong, and I loved it. What I'm creating is probably not exactly that, but similar. It tastes great, and I'm getting 2 servings of veggies.

    She's the second coworker to ask me all sorts of questions about the steamed veggies.
    And, add some legumes to that (assuming that the noodles are whole grain) and you have complete (aka "Quality") protein as well.

    Our trouble as westerners is: we believe a meal revolves around a piece of dead animal laying on our plate. And, if you take away the chunk of dead animal, all you have are side dishes.

    Other cultures never bought into that equation and eat nutritionally complete meals without relying on animal based fats and proteins to make a meal...
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  7. #82
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    And, add some legumes to that (assuming that the noodles are whole grain) and you have complete (aka "Quality") protein as well.

    Our trouble as westerners is: we believe a meal revolves around a piece of dead animal laying on our plate. And, if you take away the chunk of dead animal, all you have are side dishes.

    Other cultures never bought into that equation and eat nutritionally complete meals without relying on animal based fats and proteins to make a meal...

    Yesterday, while I was putting together my couscous with apple and sunflower seeds (and a little bit of chicken) ... I had another meal conversation with a couple coworkers.

    One of my coworkers grew up with "unusual" meals (i.e. not the traditional Aussie meal of meat and 3 veg) including what I was making ... and curries, and Asian foods, etc.

    From what she described, they were all quite healthy choices ... lots of veggies, whole grains, plain yogurt, nuts, legumes, etc., and not much in the way of meat.


    I agree with you about the dead animal and side dish mentality. If someone asks you what you want for dinner, they're usually asking if you want steak or chicken. At Christmas, "What would you like for dinner ... turkey or ham?" They never ask, "What would you like for dinner ... baked potatoes or spicy brown rice? Veggies with curry or plain veggies?

    I've had people ask me the meat for dinner question many times, and every time I think to myself, "I don't care about the meat side dish which I may or may not eat ... I'm more interested in what you're preparing for the main part of the meal."

  8. #83
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Yesterday, while I was putting together my couscous with apple and sunflower seeds (and a little bit of chicken) ... I had another meal conversation with a couple coworkers.

    One of my coworkers grew up with "unusual" meals (i.e. not the traditional Aussie meal of meat and 3 veg) including what I was making ... and curries, and Asian foods, etc.

    From what she described, they were all quite healthy choices ... lots of veggies, whole grains, plain yogurt, nuts, legumes, etc., and not much in the way of meat.


    I agree with you about the dead animal and side dish mentality. If someone asks you what you want for dinner, they're usually asking if you want steak or chicken. At Christmas, "What would you like for dinner ... turkey or ham?" They never ask, "What would you like for dinner ... baked potatoes or spicy brown rice? Veggies with curry or plain veggies?

    I've had people ask me the meat for dinner question many times, and every time I think to myself, "I don't care about the meat side dish which I may or may not eat ... I'm more interested in what you're preparing for the main part of the meal."
    Yes, even in the rather mainstream "MyPlate" stuff from the U.S.D.A. they recommend less than 1/4 of the plate be protein (and not even all animal protein). Yet, in most people's minds, that 1/4 dominates all the rest of the plate...

    And, I have found that to be my biggest challenge as a non-meat eater. Everything is fine while I am in my house -- I even get the standard .8g/Kg of protein each day. But, as soon as I try to eat a meal that I did not prepare, the first question is: "What do you want along with your meat?"
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  9. #84
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post

    Our trouble as westerners is: we believe a meal revolves around a piece of dead animal laying on our plate. And, if you take away the chunk of dead animal, all you have are side dishes.
    Eating animal products is part of a healthy well balanced diet... No you don't have to eat meat everyday, I don't... But there is nothing wrong with including red meat in your diet twice per week. Without animal products your diet is unbalanced and you're just following a fad diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    Other cultures never bought into that equation and eat nutritionally complete meals without relying on animal based fats and proteins to make a meal...
    You are incorrect... The main reason why a lot of people in third world countries don't eat meat is because , a lot of people in "other cultures" and third world countries can't afford to eat meat and animal products. They have no choice but to be a vegetarian because it's a lot cheaper for them. As a result many of those people in "other cultures" suffer from malnutrition and nutritional defeciencies. Do you really believe that some poor farmer in a third world country would choose rice and beans and reject a juicy steak if they had an oppourtinity to eat one ??

  10. #85
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Do you really believe that some poor farmer in a third world country would choose rice and beans and reject a juicy steak if they had an oppourtinity to eat one ??
    I certainly would!! Rice and beans are delicious - I could eat them just about every day. Steak is horrible - bad texture, bad flavour. I'm perfectly happy never having another steak again.

    There is nothing wrong with including red meat in the diet occasionally, but personally, I do have to be careful with the iron content. I feel so much better when I consume protein that has a lower iron content. As long as you get complete proteins (and vitamins and minerals) from other sources (including vegetable/grain combinations), you're still good.


    And which "third world" (third world doesn't actually exist anymore) countries are you referring to?

  11. #86
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    And, add some legumes to that ...
    How do you work with legumes? I know you can get them canned (and canned chickpeas are pretty good, as are some of the legume soups) ... but I'd prefer not to eat too much in the way of canned food.

    I'm not a cook. I assemble food. And the last time I tried to tackle fresh legumes there was a lot of work involved with soaking them, etc. etc. Are there quicker options available?

  12. #87
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    How do you work with legumes? I know you can get them canned (and canned chickpeas are pretty good, as are some of the legume soups) ... but I'd prefer not to eat too much in the way of canned food.

    I'm not a cook. I assemble food. And the last time I tried to tackle fresh legumes there was a lot of work involved with soaking them, etc. etc. Are there quicker options available?
    I would say 'not so much work as planning...'
    I buy dried beans of various sorts (garbanzos, black beans, mixed beans, etc...) and when I want to make them the next day I put them in a pot before I go to bed to soak overnight. That part is easy. Then, when I get up I cook them for about 1 1/2 hours... I guess that part is pretty easy too. But, it does take time. But, once cooked they work like the canned beans and keep for several days in the fridge. Usually I make enough for 2 or 3 days rather than just enough for a single meal.

    Actually, when compared to cooking with meat, legumes usually take less time and less trouble. But, when compared to our processed, convenience foods or fast-food, preparing both meat AND legumes take more time and more work.

    The black beans I usually use to make black bean burgers (which then get frozen for later) or a black bean salad.

    The mixed beans I use to make a pot of soup -- along with veggie's such as garlic, onion, carrots, tomato, zucchini, peppers, etc... (I will also occasionally make a split pea soup or pumpkin (or sweet potato) & lentil soup)

    The garbanzos (aka chick peas or chana) I use in hummus, on salads or mixed with brown rice with a dressing for a snack. But my favorite is "chana masala" -- where the chick peas are sautéed with onion and tomato (and other stuff like spinach) with the appropriate Indian spices (that I get in a box from my local Indian store) and served over boiled potatoes or brown rice. Yummy!

    But, the quickest and easiest are the various split legumes such as lentils. They do not need to be soaked and cook up in about 30 minutes -- or 5 or 10 minutes in a pressure cooker. Lentils and rice form a staple of many S.E. Asian and Indian diets -- and the people of those cultures "need" their daily ration of lentils and rice just as we Americans "need" our daily ration of red meat & fries. (But the lentils and rice won't kill you or make you fat!)

    My favorite lentil dish is "Dal Curry" -- where I cook the lentils with onion and tomato (and other veggies like carrots or kale) in a pressure cooker along with (again) the appropriate spices that I get from my local Indian store. It takes about 10 minutes.

    BTW, for rice I always buy Basmati Brown Rice - the flavor is far, far better than any of the standard American rices you get in the local grocery store -- and being a whole grain it is a lot healthier as well. If I plan on eating it alone I will cook it in veggie broth with some apple cider added instead of water -- delicious!

    Another often overlooked 'bean' dish are the soy products: tofu, edamame, soy milk etc... I use edamame as a snack instead of potato chips -- its good hot or cold. And, soy milk instead of cow's milk provides a base level of protein. I consume a cup with my morning bowl of oatmeal (13 grams of protein) and another cup with my 10:00 snack of whole grain cereal (12 grams of protein)... And, the tofu is good with various veggies in a quick 10 minute stir fry...

    Soy protein got something of a bad rap a few years ago -- but most knowledgeable people attribute that to "soy products" -- such as used in highly processed foods... But whole soy products are generally regarded as safe -- and far healthier than red meat.

    In addition, there are the Mexican bean dishes -- such as refried beans (which are not actually fried at all!) used on tacos and such. I need to explore them further...

    And, of course there are always the standard American peas & carrots type dishes... (although I prefer peas and corn rather than carrots...)

    So:
    There is a huge variety of different types of legumes as well as ways to prepare them -- and they all provide sufficient protein. And, combined with whole grains also provide sufficient "complete" proteins that westerners have been conditioned to believe they can only get from dead animals (WRONG!)

    For myself, I find a nice chana masala over brown basmati rice much more tasty and pleasing than a chunk of dead cow or chicken. And, since the bean dishes are usually made with various veggie's, you are not only getting 'complete' protein, but also vitamins, minerals and antioxidants as well.

    I think too many Americans believe that bean dishes are 'only poor food for poor people'. It is true that beans tend to be cheap (and easy on the environment as well). But, the implication that they are not delicious or nutritious is NOT true. Admittedly, as prepared by westerner's, bean dishes are often quite bland and boring. But that is simply from our lack of knowledge and experience and our meat-centric culture. That deficiency does not exist in the other "poor" cultures that we like to belittle.
    --------------------------------------
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  13. #88
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    How do you work with legumes? I know you can get them canned (and canned chickpeas are pretty good, as are some of the legume soups) ... but I'd prefer not to eat too much in the way of canned food.

    I'm not a cook. I assemble food. And the last time I tried to tackle fresh legumes there was a lot of work involved with soaking them, etc. etc. Are there quicker options available?
    And, one thing I forgot to mention about replacing animal based protein with legumes & whole grains -- while both provide sufficient and 'complete' proteins, unlike animal based sources, the beans and whole grains also provide fiber -- which is associated with decreased heart disease and improved gut flora... In addition, the beans & legumes are not associated with the cancers that have been linked to the animal protein sources (particularly red-meats)...

    ... So, while the legumes & whole grains provide protein that is equivalent to what you get from animal products, it adds some good stuff (fiber) and excludes the bad stuff (carcinogens)

    For me, the choice is a no brainer...
    ... The only negative I can think of is that I can't stop at a McD's for dinner...
    --------------------------------------
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  14. #89
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Thanks GeorgeBMac ... I'm looking around at legume options.

    I do love refried beans. Mmmmm!! I don't have them very often, but now I'm thinking about them.

    I like hummus too.

    And we have TVP about once a week.

    I have been looking for some lentil soup which used to exist in the grocery stores, but it doesn't seem to be there anymore.

  15. #90
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Thanks GeorgeBMac ... I'm looking around at legume options.

    I do love refried beans. Mmmmm!! I don't have them very often, but now I'm thinking about them.

    I like hummus too.

    And we have TVP about once a week.

    I have been looking for some lentil soup which used to exist in the grocery stores, but it doesn't seem to be there anymore.
    Yes, there are lots and lots of options out there to reduce or eliminate animal based foods and still maintain a healthy, balanced diet that is not only complete -- but more healthy than the one it replaced. But, our society makes uncovering those options rather difficult. It assumes that once you eliminate the slab of dead animal from your plate that you are left eating the side dishes...

    Ethnic foods are a good place to start -- but even many of them have been 'westernized'...

    Another problems is that many people associate legumes and such as the food of poor people. And, that has some basis in reality: the kings ate the venison while the poor people ate the plant based foods... But, that does not mean that kings had a healthier diet. Rather they ate what the processed food manufacturers are pushing on us: foods laced with fat, sugar and salt.

    But, eating a healthy, plant based diet largely replaces the speed and convenience of processed foods with home cooking. Some people are not willing or able to make that trade...

    Best of luck exploring an expanded selection of healthy food choices....
    --------------------------------------
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  16. #91
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    Yes, there are lots and lots of options out there to reduce or eliminate animal based foods and still maintain a healthy, balanced diet that is not only complete -- but more healthy than the one it replaced. But, our society makes uncovering those options rather difficult. It assumes that once you eliminate the slab of dead animal from your plate that you are left eating the side dishes...

    Ethnic foods are a good place to start -- but even many of them have been 'westernized'...

    Another problems is that many people associate legumes and such as the food of poor people. And, that has some basis in reality: the kings ate the venison while the poor people ate the plant based foods... But, that does not mean that kings had a healthier diet. Rather they ate what the processed food manufacturers are pushing on us: foods laced with fat, sugar and salt.

    But, eating a healthy, plant based diet largely replaces the speed and convenience of processed foods with home cooking. Some people are not willing or able to make that trade...

    Best of luck exploring an expanded selection of healthy food choices....

    I grew up on a fairly well balanced diet ... my mother is a nurse and followed the nutrition information she learned fairly well. Our diet was a little bit meat heavy (my parents like their steak and roasts) ... but we had very regular meals and snacks, with small portion sizes, lots of veggies and fruit ... and very little in the way of deserts or sweets.

    And because my mother loves the southwest US and the food of that area, we ate a lot of Mexican-style food. She also did some delicious Italian and Chinese-style dishes. So for the time we had quite a variety ... more of a variety than most of my school friends.

    After I moved out of home, I leaned more toward the vegetarian side of things, and started exploring different food choices. I've never been fond of most red meats for several reasons including the fact that I didn't feel particularly well when I ate them ... and about 10 years ago discovered that I tend toward a high iron level. So I started using tofu instead of ground meat, trying legumes, expanding my variety of fruit and veg, etc.

    In those days I could eat nuts and eggs as well ... can't seem to do that anymore, unfortunately. That has been a disappointment which has set me searching for other options. I'm running out of tolerable protein options.

  17. #92
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CbadRider View Post
    A recent study in the UK says to eat more veggies: Study: Eat 7 servings of fruit, veggies daily ? The Chart - CNN.com Blogs
    Yes, that's the message here in Australia as well. They are really encouraging people to add more servings of veggies to their diet, or to replace servings of other foods with servings of veggies.

  18. #93
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Yes, that's the message here in Australia as well. They are really encouraging people to add more servings of veggies to their diet, or to replace servings of other foods with servings of veggies.

    do potatoes count? fried in oil...covered in bbq flavoring?

  19. #94
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    do potatoes count? fried in oil...covered in bbq flavoring?
    Not with bbq flavouring ... ick! blech!

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    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post

    ... and about 10 years ago discovered that I tend toward a high iron level. So I started using tofu instead of ground meat, trying legumes, expanding my variety of fruit and veg, etc.
    Haemochromatosis is a serious condition... ferritin levels can also be increased by inflammatory foods of which, grains, and soy rank highly.

  21. #96
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Haemochromatosis is a serious condition... ferritin levels can also be increased by inflammatory foods of which, grains, and soy rank highly.
    My iron levels are borderline high ... and I've had doctors in two countries tell me not to eat too much red meat.

  22. #97
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    The steamed veggies have been a very tasty and filling addition to my lunches. Lunch is often brown rice, a little bit of chicken, and now 2 servings of veggies.

    And paying a bit more attention to my diet ... eating less, but increasing the amount of veggies (again) seems to be paying off. I've lost 3.5 kg in the last couple months.

    I've also been exercising more ... trying to be active on average at least 90 minutes a day.


    Now can anyone tell me a bit about quinoa? Turns out I can't eat tree nuts, so I'm looking for another non-meat, low-fat protein source.

    I found this ... and it is really quick and easy and inexpensive to make for lunch. I heat my veggies, heat the rice & quinoa, mix the two, and it's delicious!

    https://www.sunrice.com.au/consumer/...n-rice-quinoa/






    I've had a lot of positive comments and questions about my lunches, especially since I started doing the veggies.

  23. #98
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    My iron levels are borderline high ... and I've had doctors in two countries tell me not to eat too much red meat.
    In addition to beef, liver, and eggs, other high iron sources are dark leafy greens, soy, lentils, artichokes, and beans are also very high in dietary iron. Rounding out the top ten would be dried prunes and raisins, enriched cereal, and giblets.

    Liver is a staple in our diet and it rates as a superfood... my wife has trouble absorbing D vitamins but liver addresses that nicely and it is also very high in vitamin A, C, and B vitamins but is also extremely iron rich so would be something to avoid if one has issues with high iron levels.

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    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    In addition to beef, liver, and eggs, other high iron sources are dark leafy greens, soy, lentils, artichokes, and beans are also very high in dietary iron. Rounding out the top ten would be dried prunes and raisins, enriched cereal, and giblets.
    Well ... I don't eat much in the way of red meat. I haven't touched liver in years. I don't think I've ever eaten giblets or artichokes. I rarely eat eggs, dried prunes, raisins, or breakfast cereal.

    I eat a bit of dark leafy greens, soy, and lentils/beans but they don't make up the bulk of my diet. And I'm not a big bread eater either.

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