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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMac View Post
    too much exercise will most likely result to injury that might keep you off the gym for long causing frustration and probably weight gain. I like to take a day off to let the body heal. Rest is the time when you get stronger not during the 'workout"
    Yes, and that was the intent of my post. Burnout is not uncommon with people who exercise a lot. That leaves them with lowered performance, and subsequently lower weight loss (if any at all), and an increase in potential for injury.

    Overtraining is relatively simple to check -- take the resting heart rate each morning on waking up. If it becomes elevated above the average, you have likely overtrained.

    Weight loss can be had by adjusting portion sizes so they are smaller. Use a calorie counter if needed. The sustainability in weight loss comes from adopting eating habits that also are sustainable. Smaller portion sizes are an ideal starting point... you can eat what you like as you do now, but in smaller amounts. That requires discipline.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  2. #27
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexMac View Post
    too much exercise will most likely result to injury that might keep you off the gym for long causing frustration and probably weight gain. I like to take a day off to let the body heal. Rest is the time when you get stronger not during the 'workout"
    No, too strenuous & vigorous exercise (especially when there is too much of it) makes you prone to injury, but not too much (as long as it is done in a safe and reasonable manner).

    And, I disagree with the myth that the body gets stronger with rest. It FEELS stronger, but exercise is what makes it stronger -- not rest.

    ... But, actually, the best way to lose weight is through diet. Exercise can help with that along with making the body, stronger, more fit and healthier.
    --------------------------------------
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  3. #28
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    No, too strenuous & vigorous exercise (especially when there is too much of it) makes you prone to injury, but not too much (as long as it is done in a safe and reasonable manner).

    And, I disagree with the myth that the body gets stronger with rest. It FEELS stronger, but exercise is what makes it stronger -- not rest.

    ... But, actually, the best way to lose weight is through diet. Exercise can help with that along with making the body, stronger, more fit and healthier.
    Rest and recovery IS NOT a myth, it's reality. If your workouts have a lot of intensity then you need rest or else your progress will stall and you will burnout. Rest is absolutely essential if a person is to make any type of progress in their strength and fitness. It also depends on what type of a workout you're doing. I ride my bike 6-7 days per week but not every ride is done at max intensity, and I also lift weights 3-4 days per week at most. I can not lift heavy weights 6-7 days per week. Weight training is different and you need rest , your muscles need to repair themselves... Strength training, power/speed training, low reps with heavy weights also put a lot of stress on your CNS and they shouldn't be done everyday.
    Strenuous and vigorous exercise is absolutely essential in order to make progress, but then you also need rest with it.

  4. #29
    Junior Member Petsamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDude View Post
    Exercise is a very important, but secondary, part of a sound weight loss program.
    Exercise is not secondary. Proper diet & exercise are equally important.

    The basic formula for weight loss is burn more calories than you consume.

    I've heard of an olympian female who consumes 10,000 calories per day. And because she's an olympian, she ain't fat. She looks like any physically fit female.

    To the OP, don't go with low carb, high protein. Some recommend high carb diets. So who's right? I say go with the food pyramid that the USDA recommends.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petsamo View Post
    Exercise is not secondary. Proper diet & exercise are equally important.

    The basic formula for weight loss is burn more calories than you consume.

    I've heard of an olympian female who consumes 10,000 calories per day. And because she's an olympian, she ain't fat. She looks like any physically fit female.

    To the OP, don't go with low carb, high protein. Some recommend high carb diets. So who's right? I say go with the food pyramid that the USDA recommends.
    You may be technically correct, but my experience has been that I can lose weight and maintain weight loss through diet alone. Without question, the healthiest weight loss program involves exercise too. In fact, our best chance of achieving good health is through a balanced nutrition and exercise lifestyle.

  6. #31
    Junior Member Petsamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDude View Post
    ... our best chance of achieving good health is through a balanced nutrition and exercise lifestyle.
    Here's a calorie calculator I like. The lower your exercise level, the lower your calorie intake must be. A very low calorie intake is no fun. Someone suggested losing 1 pound per week. I say 2 to 3 pounds is the way to go. You'll see results much better.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petsamo View Post
    Here's a calorie calculator I like. The lower your exercise level, the lower your calorie intake must be. A very low calorie intake is no fun. Someone suggested losing 1 pound per week. I say 2 to 3 pounds is the way to go. You'll see results much better.
    I've had most success with the Weight Watcher (WW) program. Combined with biking and/or gym time at least three times a week for maximum benefits, healthy weight loss is a given. WW factors in fat, protein, carbs and fiber to set guidelines for consumption of individual foods. Its a plan based on balanced nutrition, not just calories. WW says have a dairy product(s), some healthy oil, fruits and vegetables every day. WW also recommends cardio and resistance exercise. For me, it provides a framework (discipline) to accomplish my goals. The WW weight loss guideline is 2 pounds per week over time.

  8. #33
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    And, I disagree with the myth that the body gets stronger with rest. It FEELS stronger, but exercise is what makes it stronger -- not rest.
    Strenuous exercise breaks down the muscle, which is repaired during rest.

    When I was a bodybuilder, my program was 3 days on, 1 day off. And during those 3 days on, I worked different muscle groups ... Day 1: Back and biceps; Day 2: Chest, shoulders, triceps; Day 3: Legs. I did core work all 3 days and cardio all 3 days.

    On my rest days, sometimes I didn't do much of anything, but most of the time I would do light cardio ... a walk, a short easily paced ride.


    However, I also think that a person who is not doing strenuous workouts (at the gym, on the bicycle, etc.) can be active 6 days a week, or perhaps even every day. And I think that mixing up the activity is a good idea, similar to what I used to do with bodybuilding, working different muscles.

    So a week might include a yoga/pilates class, then an intense spinning class, then a long walk, then commercial intervals on the trainer, then a shorter ride outside, then a long ride outside, and then a long walk. Exercise every day ... but varying intensities and varying activities.. However, if a person were doing a lot of intervals and/or long rides, then rest days at least once a week would be more important.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
    You forgot water. If you don't get water you'll die. Sufficient sleep (and water) is important but more than sufficient sleep (or water) isn't going to help.
    And air...don't forget air. Actually, it seems you may have already gone without it for a little too long already.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  10. #35
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    This should be good.

    :
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  11. #36
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Strenuous exercise breaks down the muscle, which is repaired during rest.

    When I was a bodybuilder, my program was 3 days on, 1 day off. And during those 3 days on, I worked different muscle groups ... Day 1: Back and biceps; Day 2: Chest, shoulders, triceps; Day 3: Legs. I did core work all 3 days and cardio all 3 days.

    On my rest days, sometimes I didn't do much of anything, but most of the time I would do light cardio ... a walk, a short easily paced ride.


    However, I also think that a person who is not doing strenuous workouts (at the gym, on the bicycle, etc.) can be active 6 days a week, or perhaps even every day. And I think that mixing up the activity is a good idea, similar to what I used to do with bodybuilding, working different muscles.

    So a week might include a yoga/pilates class, then an intense spinning class, then a long walk, then commercial intervals on the trainer, then a shorter ride outside, then a long ride outside, and then a long walk. Exercise every day ... but varying intensities and varying activities.. However, if a person were doing a lot of intervals and/or long rides, then rest days at least once a week would be more important.
    Yes, I very much agree with your overall point that a muscle building routine is different from a health promoting routine.

    For health, I simply go with what my cardiologist & his exercise physiologist have recommended: 60-90 minutes/day, 6 days a week of aerobic exercise at 75-85% of my max heart rate. (He'll accept 70% -- but prefers higher).
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  12. #37
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    And, I disagree with the myth that the body gets stronger with rest. It FEELS stronger, but exercise is what makes it stronger -- not rest.

    ... But, actually, the best way to lose weight is through diet. Exercise can help with that along with making the body, stronger, more fit and healthier.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Rest and recovery IS NOT a myth, it's reality. If your workouts have a lot of intensity then you need rest or else your progress will stall and you will burnout. Rest is absolutely essential if a person is to make any type of progress in their strength and fitness. It also depends on what type of a workout you're doing. I ride my bike 6-7 days per week but not every ride is done at max intensity, and I also lift weights 3-4 days per week at most. I can not lift heavy weights 6-7 days per week. Weight training is different and you need rest , your muscles need to repair themselves... Strength training, power/speed training, low reps with heavy weights also put a lot of stress on your CNS and they shouldn't be done everyday.
    Strenuous and vigorous exercise is absolutely essential in order to make progress, but then you also need rest with it.
    Completely agree with wolf here. If you think 'rest is a myth', then you've never trained _really_ hard. It's not just about injuries, although they do show up when training fatigued.

    In a truly fatigued state, you will not be able to hit the numbers of a prescribed workout. Your RPE might be maxed, but your power output is 10 percent off and you won't be able to get your heart rate up to the appropriate range. This isn't an issue of mental strength. You can want to do it and be doing your damnedest to hit your workout bogies and just not get there. The only way to get there is to rest. When you rest, your muscles recover, your hormones return to some normal state and your body/mind gets prepared for reaching your next workout goals.

    The long and the short of it is that rest is a _vital_ component of any good (or even reasonable) training plan. It's the foundation that everything else is built on.

    I agree with George that weight loss, at least initially, is a matter of diet. Once you get to a low enough body fat (which itself can be a stressor), again, rest/sleep starts becoming a more important factor.
    Austin doesn't have hippies. They have slightly rebellious Methodists. - Racer Ex

  13. #38
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Completely agree with wolf here. If you think 'rest is a myth', then you've never trained _really_ hard. It's not just about injuries, although they do show up when training fatigued.

    In a truly fatigued state, you will not be able to hit the numbers of a prescribed workout. Your RPE might be maxed, but your power output is 10 percent off and you won't be able to get your heart rate up to the appropriate range. This isn't an issue of mental strength. You can want to do it and be doing your damnedest to hit your workout bogies and just not get there. The only way to get there is to rest. When you rest, your muscles recover, your hormones return to some normal state and your body/mind gets prepared for reaching your next workout goals.

    The long and the short of it is that rest is a _vital_ component of any good (or even reasonable) training plan. It's the foundation that everything else is built on.

    I agree with George that weight loss, at least initially, is a matter of diet. Once you get to a low enough body fat (which itself can be a stressor), again, rest/sleep starts becoming a more important factor.
    I was responding to the statement that:
    "Rest is the time when you get stronger not during the 'workout""

    As you point out, rest let's your body recover.... And I like the way you detailed that that recovery involves far more than simply 'resting tired muscles'... And, I would add that it's not just hormones that are returning to normal states but other chemicals in the metabolic process (such as CoEnzyme Q10 for example) as well as all the neuro-transmitters that the peripheral nervous system uses in its efforts to manage the muscle fibers...

    So rest enables your body and its processes to return to their normal states -- but it does not "make you stronger". In fact, rest by itself, is debilitating.
    --------------------------------------
    bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad

  14. #39
    Junior Member Petsamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDude View Post
    I've had most success with the Weight Watcher (WW) program. Combined with biking and/or gym time at least three times a week for maximum benefits, healthy weight loss is a given. WW factors in fat, protein, carbs and fiber to set guidelines for consumption of individual foods. Its a plan based on balanced nutrition, not just calories. WW says have a dairy product(s), some healthy oil, fruits and vegetables every day. WW also recommends cardio and resistance exercise. For me, it provides a framework (discipline) to accomplish my goals. The WW weight loss guideline is 2 pounds per week over time.
    If calorie counting & proper nutrition is burdensome, Weight Watchers is more than happy to take your money and do all those responsible things for you. And they thank you for spreading the wealth.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petsamo View Post
    If calorie counting & proper nutrition is burdensome, Weight Watchers is more than happy to take your money and do all those responsible things for you. And they thank you for spreading the wealth.
    Well, son, I can afford it.

    I am inclined to use resources for my weight management program that are tried and true, based on the latest nutritional research by experts in the field of weight loss. I join Weight Watchers from time-to-time to catch up on their latest program upgrades, attend meetings for a month or so for re-orientation, then exit the program. My internist endorses the program as a good nutritional plan for losing weight, and so do many knowledgeable nutritional experts, including Charles Barkley.

    Your methods may suit your needs well, and I would never criticize them. Go in peace and live life to the fullest.

  16. #41
    Junior Member Petsamo's Avatar
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    There's another thing I wanna add.

    Donald Rumsfeld, the former Secretary of Defense had a stand up desk. Instead of sitting down at his desk, he stood up. When you sit, your body's at rest, and you don't want your body resting too much.

    Here's the article: Sitting At Work For Hours Can Be As Unhealthy As Smoking

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguyinvenice View Post
    So here is my plan, Two months ago I joined the local gym(again) and have been hitting the gym 5 days a week for both cardio on the treadmills and weight training. So far I have seen some ok results. I'm 5'6" tall and before the gym I was 168 lbs. and about 29% body fat and 27 bmi, now I am down to 159 lbs, 24% body fat and 26 bmi. I think that is somewhat reasonable for me. I have been going to the gym for 1 to 2 hours per day, splitting the time between cardio and weights. I have the ultimate goal in mind of about 15% body fat and or 145lbs and about a 30 inch waist. I am going to be spending more time on the bike to speed the fat loss, hopefully. I think I am going to try to get on the bike for at least 2 hours twice a week. Any feedback?

    I don't know, it sounds like you are asking a lot from your body right away. Getting on a bike and starting with 2 hour rides sounds more like torture than fun.

    The key is to make some lifestyle changes gradually, so that you can sustain them. That means small things like:

    -taking the stairs instead of the elevator to go up 2 stories.
    -parking at the far end of the lot when you go out shopping.
    -starting with short walks and working your way up to longer walks
    -starting with short rides and working your way up to longer rides.

    No offense, but you sound a little bit obsessive. Give your body time to recover between workouts. Lift 3X a week: 1X for chest/arms, 1X for back/shoulders, 1X for legs, with a day of rest in between.

  18. #43
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    -taking the stairs instead of the elevator to go up 2 stories.
    +1 on stair walking, it's a great exercise. I live on the 12th floor and walking or running up 12 stories is a great workout. I've done it few times while carrying my bike.

  19. #44
    A tiny member bikeguyinvenice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    I don't know, it sounds like you are asking a lot from your body right away. Getting on a bike and starting with 2 hour rides sounds more like torture than fun.

    The key is to make some lifestyle changes gradually, so that you can sustain them. That means small things like:

    -taking the stairs instead of the elevator to go up 2 stories.
    -parking at the far end of the lot when you go out shopping.
    -starting with short walks and working your way up to longer walks
    -starting with short rides and working your way up to longer rides.

    No offense, but you sound a little bit obsessive. Give your body time to recover between workouts. Lift 3X a week: 1X for chest/arms, 1X for back/shoulders, 1X for legs, with a day of rest in between.
    Well perhaps I am a bit obsessive, but that's not always a bad thing in my opinion, Two hours on a bike would be torture for a newbie, but I've been riding bikes for 10+ years as an adult, so 2 hours is not so much.
    My cycling blog http://kcmjr.wordpress.com/
    "Normal" is just a setting on a washing machine.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguyinvenice View Post
    Well perhaps I am a bit obsessive, but that's not always a bad thing in my opinion, Two hours on a bike would be torture for a newbie, but I've been riding bikes for 10+ years as an adult, so 2 hours is not so much.
    There's a lot of information missing here: age, general fitness, experience level with cycling, with weight lifting, with cardio, injury history and a bunch of other variables such as what you eat, stress levels, etc.

    Anyway, you're better informed about your situation than I am, so I can only wish you the best.

  21. #46
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguyinvenice View Post
    Well perhaps I am a bit obsessive, but that's not always a bad thing in my opinion, Two hours on a bike would be torture for a newbie, but I've been riding bikes for 10+ years as an adult, so 2 hours is not so much.
    +1
    ... For me, it's how things get accomplished... Real things, for real...

    It's how real greatness happens (or for mere mortals like me, it's how I do the best that I am capable of doing...)

    But, as a Zen priest once told me -- just don't get caught by it...
    --------------------------------------
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    USDA food pyramid = diabetes, heart disease, and lots of profit for the grain industry.

    Long live high fructose corn syrup. Its victims? Not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petsamo View Post
    There's another thing I wanna add.

    Donald Rumsfeld, the former Secretary of Defense had a stand up desk. Instead of sitting down at his desk, he stood up. When you sit, your body's at rest, and you don't want your body resting too much.

    Here's the article: Sitting At Work For Hours Can Be As Unhealthy As Smoking
    The man who got FDA's ban of the sweetner aspartame aka neurotoxin overturned.

    A real stand up guy.

  24. #49
    Senior Member ctpres's Avatar
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    My plan? Eat better, eat less and ride more. 18#'s since 1/1/14. The next five will be the hardest - 100% pure floppy flab. Goal is about 155 by 5/1/14.
    Retired 75 YO. Got my sub 5 ET century at 50 and sub 7 RT at 75. Just want to finish at 80. USNR, USAF, USCGA - riding 2014 Zenetto Steath ZR7.1 Carbon

  25. #50
    Senior Member Spld cyclist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
    USDA food pyramid = diabetes, heart disease, and lots of profit for the grain industry.

    Long live high fructose corn syrup. Its victims? Not so much.
    I think you're posting in the wrong place. We've recently flogged this dead horse in two separate threads.

    Now we're flogging a new dead horse regarding rest vs. exercise.

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