sugar is king baby
ask any addict on this forum
Competitive athletes , people who race, people who do HIT training can't go low carb because it would compromise their athletic performance too much. You can not be competitive on a low carb diet. Some people on this forum are competitive and a low carb diet would never work for them...Look at it this way. I've never seen a modern hunter-gatherer compete and win gold at any of the olympic events, triathlons , bike races or any other competitive events.
please raise your hand if you're a world class athlete
In my first post in this thread I said that I included more carbs in my diet when I was weight training, because yes, intensive exercise does require muscle glycogen. So we are not disagreeing.
Last edited by carnivroar; 04-21-14 at 06:20 PM.
Once again, you do not need glycogen for aerobic exercise (i.e., endurance). Your muscles can burn fat much more efficiently once you adjust to switching to low carb. Glycogen is only absolutely necessary for short, intensive exercises like weightlifting and sprinting.
Your last paragraph is a classic example of the straw man logical fallacy. completely irrelevant as no one here is arguing in favor of those fad diets, certainly not me. And low carb is not a fad -- low fat on the other hand surely is.
Last edited by carnivroar; 04-21-14 at 06:30 PM.
(3rd Para. ) I wasn't arguing about Fad diets but rather equating your logic in the same realm... Again you may have 5 years of questionable nutritional study as you say, but I'll take my years of actually racing a bicycle as well as ski racing, in addition to coaching Juniors in both sports and having myself been coached by reputably qualified coaches and nutritionists... I know what it feels like to enter complete depletion in the middle of a 4 hour race... That was certainly not due to low carb high fat intake...
Your methodology may work on a fixie for 20 miles avrg 15mph, but in a 95 mile hilly road course where at times avrg speed is 30+mph you will not even reach the finish line, or at least not soon enough to either get counted DNF or to be able to continue the next day in a Stage Race..
Ah.... Voila les Cannon ... !!
*happily munches popcorn*
...what...? Corn has been human grown for roughly 3,000 years!
Just one of those dirty pinko commies some people worry about.
Humans did NOT evolve eating a single diet. We ate what was available -- whatever it was and wherever it was. The diet changed by season and by location. Most likely, the warmer it was, the higher the ratio of plant foods and, the colder it was the higher the ratio of animal products (aka "walking bags of protein")...
The human body evolved to eat and thrive on a wide variety of food stuffs. We never had the killer tools of a tiger nor the digestive system of an herbivore. We had a bit of both...
But today we have changed the equation the cavemen lived by...
Cavemen worried about making it through the day, the week or the month. But today, for those who have not yet succumbed to one of the chronic diseases, that is not much of a concern. But what IS a concern are things like:
-- long term health and well being Particularly the chronic diseases such as heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc...)
-- energy levels for artificial athletic performances
The cavemen neither cared about nor thought about any of those things. So why would you use him as a model for today's diet? It is very simply faulty logic.
bikes: 1992 Cannondale R500, 2012 Trek DS 8.5, 2008 LeMond Poprad
A healthy human has anywhere from 10% to 20% body fat. Obviously, if you have a 5% body fat, you're either staving to death or are an elite athlete (who are not examples of good health).
And give me a break, 30+mph on a 95 mile hilly road? That's downright impossible and only shows your lack of better arguments.
I may not be a good example, sure, but that doesn't disprove my claim. See:
- Steve Phinney ? Low-Carb preserves Glycogen better than High Carb | Me and My Diabetes
- High-fat, low-carb diets: good for you and your cycling? | CyclingTips
- How a low carb diet affected my athletic performance (Part 4) « The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.
And let me repeat in case I wasn't clear enough. I'm talking about low-intensity, endurance activity.
I used to be a powerlifter and have squatted 405lbs for 3 reps three years ago. Those types of exercises do require glycogen stores, so I was eating more carbs at that time. Usually from white rice because it's easily digestible and doesn't contain gluten.
Last edited by carnivroar; 04-22-14 at 08:21 AM.
Again you are just citing assumptions....
As far as 30+mph on a 95 mile race.... Sorry but I have been in Pro 1-3 races where the pace was non-stop ( and I did say that 30mph was an average but not always the average, sometimes slower and other times faster ....
This years Pro race Milan to San Remo was won in 6:55:56 .....That is a race of 298 KM or around 189 miles give or take... Which is about 30mph on average speed... Very doable..
A lot of misconceptions in the Attia and Phinney pieces... In a race the pace is never one constant, it increases or decreases over a wide range.
The reason we consume nutrients during a race is so that we don't deplete reserves, this theory that you can ride continuously and not run out of fuel is not credible. The studies you cited are not from accredited sports physiologists, or for that matter even from accredited peer review.
I'll grant you that there is a difference between " endurance activities " and we were discussing cycling on this thread, not weight lifting which requires a completely different set of parameters, most definitely not performing close to an anaerobic threshold or over that threshold for extended periods with repeated durations...
Proper Nutrition is much more than just cherry picking the latest buzz methodology..... White Rice... That's full of nutrients...
I'm Done ......
Ah.... Voila les Cannon ... !!
Cycling 30 mph average for that long is way beyond most people's abilities, if not downright impossible (I have been googling, but can't find an example). Therefore, that falls under elite athletes which have a different nutrition requirement than the general population and regular cyclists.
"this theory that you can ride continuously and not run out of fuel is not credible"
Depends who who you are talking about. The human body was built to withstand long periods of time without eating by using energy from stored body-fat. This energy can be used to fuel low-intensity, endurance type exercises.
Here's a study done on that, which agrees with everything I said so far:
As for white rice being void of nutrients, that's absolutely true. Fortunately I never relied on carbs for nutrients because meat and vegetables provide all nutrients the human body needs. And I only ate that when I was weight training.
The vast majority of people who visit and post here are interested in furthering their bike performance. The nutritional aspects of performance on the bike have been studied extensively and are well known. Your posts are at variance with everything that is known about performance on the bike, or athletic performance in any sport for that matter.
My wife and I, total age 133, just did an 87 mile ride with 3000' climbing, 70 miles of it upwind, with an average of 15.3. Which is nothing, nothing at all, mediocre performance. Corniche is correct, average speeds on long, hilly road courses have exceeded 30 mph. Average speed for the entire Tour de France has exceeded 25 mph.
Be that as it may, our crappy performance was only possible because we each ate over 1000 calories of carbs during the ride, with more carbs before and after. I was burning about 400 calories/hour for over 5 hours. Real Riders would be burning closer to 700 calories/hour. I believe maximum fat calories that well-trained humans my size can burn is around 160/hour.
So two things wrong with not eating carbs: no glycogen and no carb fuel = no performance, not even at my mediocre level. The numbers are not there, no matter what your fantasy is.
As I've said before, if you want to make extraordinary claims on this forum, post your palmares. Me: double imperial century in under 12 hours, 400k in under 15 hours, hilly 200k in under 8 hours, RAMROD (10,000', 154 miles) in 9-1/2 hours, and all that by a mediocre rider in his late 50s and early 60s. And I'm not making any extraordinary claims. I just eat what is normally recommended for endurance cycling. BTW, my blood lipids were described by my doctor this year as "Perfect." Your cycling palmares?
It's all about results, both for performance and health, which are pretty much the same thing.
Your not being a good example in fact does disprove your claim.
Cynthia Kenyon, another one of those quacks on the Nobel Prize short list follows
"a low glycemic index diet similar to the Atkins diet and the South Beach Diet.
No desserts. No sweets. No potatoes. No rice. No bread. No pasta. When I say ‘no,’ I mean ‘no, or not much,’ she notes. Instead, eat green vegetables. Eat the fruits that aren't the sweet fruits, like melon. Bananas? Bananas are a little sweet. Meat? Meat, yes, of course. Avocados. All vegetables. Nuts. Fish. Chicken. That's what I eat. Cheese. Eggs. And one glass of red wine a day.But the diet is unproven, she cautions, and she's not recommending it for all. Nevertheless, she's pleased with its performance for her. 'I have a fabulous blood profile. My triglyceride level is only 30, and anything below 200 is good.'You have to eat something, and you just have to make your best judgment. And that's my best judgment. Plus, I feel better. Plus, I'm thin—I weigh what I weighed when I was in college. I feel great —you feel like you're a kid again. It's amazing.["
About the 160/hour thing: that's a ridiculous claim. According to this calculator, How Many Calories Do You Burn Cycling? | Bicycling Magazine, I burn 680 calories/hr on my typical ride (14-15 mph, 150 lbs body weight). Considering I only eat < 50 grams of carbs per day, those calories are all coming from fat.
Performance and health are absolutely not the same thing. Elite athletes do need a different diet, but they are not the epitome of health.
Here's a low-carb marathon runner: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/s...low-carb-diet/ Very well known guy in this community.
Read this, and the comments: http://www.drperlmutter.com/long-dis...high-fat-diet/
Last edited by carnivroar; 04-22-14 at 02:27 PM.
Yes we all want to improve our performance, however our baselines are all different as well as which decade we draw our nutritional information from.
Let's stay on the Op's topic and not turn this into an argument about dietary preferences. A new thread can be started for that.
Back to the OP and the need for resistance training to meet body composition goals.
There's a book (and iPhone app by the same name) called You Are Your Own Gym that gives a host of great body weight exercises, including a whole section on working the core - no tools needed. The book is good stuff. Nothing earth-shattering or new, but all explained very well and with decent training plan ideas in the back. The app has videos of the exercises if you've not done them before.
Lifting just your bodyweight can be very! effective, builds functional strength, and seems to be in-line with paleo principles if indeed that matters to the OP (I'm kind of unclear on all of that by now).
TRX suspension trainer is also a fantastic tool for building strength, toning up and developing a strong core.. You don't even need gym membership. You can use that thing almost anywhere. If you can master controlling your own bodyweight through different exercises then you will be strong and well toned up. If bodyweight exercises become too easy then there are many ways of making them more challenging, example would be adding a weighted vest or even a small backpack filled with some weight plates.
I really like body weight exercises for building lean muscle. Pull ups are my go to. Because there are so many variations, you can get a great complete upper body/core workout with just a pull up bar. I use the TRX system only slightly, but really like it for variations on body weight routines.
I've also really been enjoying jumping rope. Great addition to a cardio workout.