CanadianBiker32

Just recently was riding with some guys who swear by Hammer Nutrition products.

How do you all think of Hammer Nutrition products?

Thoughts on the product of HEED for better source of Electrolytes? as well other supplements they have?

thoughts? effective or not? or just waste of money?

mrtuttle04

Too many carbs for me. I'll stick with my balance diet of fresh meats and vegetables making supplments unnecessary.

Carbonfiberboy 

I don't think much of their pills, but their nutritional products are excellent. Only problem is that they are expensive. The only things they make that aren't easy to duplicate for much less money are HEED, Hammer Gel, and Endurolytes. Those three are the best products in their class, and no other way to get them except from Hammer. The cool thing about HEED is that it doesn't rot your teeth like every other sports drink on the market.

Of course the whole point of their nutritional products is that they are carbs. There are no cyclists out there riding competitively who don't do it on carbs . . . except for a few people one encounters on the interwebs but never meets or sees on a podium in real life. Their nutritional products are not supplements. They are fuel.

hamster

I use Hammer products because they work for me. I did one double century and one 150 miler almost exclusively on their stuff (Perpetuem + Hammer gel) and it kept me energetic to the end in both cases.

Their science is somewhat flawed, however. They go nearly 100% maltodextrin (glucose). It is pretty well established that humans have limited ability to absorb glucose from the GI tract, and the cap is somewhere around 240 kcal/hour (1 g/min). Fructose is absorbed through an independent pathway and you can get to 300-350 with the right mix of glucose, fructose and water. Unfortunately, I don't know of any manufacturers making this right mix, and, in any event, I haven't yet gotten to the point where 240 would be inadequate for me.

Carbonfiberboy 

Cytomax has both, but for me it's both too sweet and too highly flavored to use for more than a 2 hour ride, when I don't really need it anyway. I don't know why they don't make a more LD fuel along those lines, but I suppose they know their market. I also wonder if it's the fructose itself that makes it too sweet and burny in the mouth. I mean, I'd drink it if I was getting paid to, otherwise no. The great thing about malto is that it tastes bland, like rice water. Our sweet taste buds must not react to that particular sugar chain.

Hammer is pretty stuck on that stomach osmolality thing. I.e., because malto is a long chain sugar molecule, and osmolality is defined as the number of molecules/liter, long chain molecules equals lower osmolality and it's supposedly osmolality that limits transfer across the stomach wall. Hence Hammer is totally against using simple sugars of any sort. OTOH, I've gotten "sloshy stomach" from malto as well as ordinary sugar products, so I'm not totally convinced about that. Maybe there is some breakdown of malto in the stomach, before it goes across the wall.

Here's a non-Hammer link that explains the science of absorption of various fast carbs used in energy gels:
The Science of Energy Gels - Running tips for everyone from beginners to racing marathons and ultramarathons

After using Hammer's Sustained Energy for a while, I started making my own homebrew from malto and whey protein, at a vastly lower cost. On our tandem, I've been experimenting with LD fuels for my wife, who has a sensitive stomach. She can't do Hammer products, I think because her gut doesn't like soy protein. She does fine on Ensure or its clones, and fine on my homebrew at a mix of 750 cal./liter.

OldTryGuy

I've been using e-Gel and e-Fuel with good results. To each their own GI system.....

Carbonfiberboy 

Giving a link for you:
Crank Sports e-Fuel - The First Liquid Concentrate Isotonic Sports DrinkThey don't say exactly, but I think the sugar in e-Fuel is fructose, so that would be interesting. The same as Hammer does, they call maltodextrin a "complex carbohydrate" when it is just a long-chain sugar and not what we usually understand by that term, malto having a GI of 130 compared to 100 for sucrose.

I'm sure it works fine, though I prefer to have some protein in my bottle for long distance events. Could always just add it.

e-Fuel is $13.88/lb. Hammer's Sustained Energy is $9.78/lb; HEED is $10.75/lb. I buy my malto in 50# bags for ~$1,50/lb.

hamster

Looks like Cytomax adds an artificial sweetener (Stevia) to their powder on top of the sugars. No wonder it tastes too sweet.

There is a disconnect between Hammer's theory and their usage instructions.

This is their theoretical claim: "The beauty of complex carbs is that they will match body fluid osmolality, not at a 6-8% solution, but a more concentrated 15-18% solution."

15% solution is 3.9 scoops of HEED or 424 kcal per 24 oz water bottle. This is way above their recommended mix rates. It's also way too much to absorb at 1 bottle/hour rate.

If you go for 240 kcal/hour (60 g/hour) and 24 oz/hour of water, you only need a 8.4% solution. There should be no problem adding some fructose on top of that.

KJL

I have been using them for many years and they have helped me a lot - Hammer Heed for preventing cramping and keeping hydrated and the gels for energy. I use mostly for endurance mountain biking and riding in heat on the road. They seem to be gut friendly for me and I am susceptible to heartburn etc. They are also a very good company for sponsoring some of the smaller races and rides out there - very much an advocate for the cycling community. The only product they have that I do not like is the recovery drink mix - just taste bad in my opinion otherwise everything else taste and works as it should.

Carbonfiberboy 

My recipe for LD is 750 cal./bottle, either 24 oz. or 1 liter, depending on season, and either a second bottle of plain water or a 70 oz. Camelbak, depending on temperature and distance between controls. So one fuel bottle lasts me 3 hours, meaning I only have to stop to mix up more at controls or midway on a century, etc. I don't put electrolytes in my drink, preferring to take Endurolytes separately. Thus I separate the functions of hydration, fueling, and electrolytes so I can vary them independently.

I haven't tried this with HEED, but it works well with the other Hammer fueling products. I think HEED would have too strong a flavor at over 3 scoops or 300 cal./bottle. Melon is the only HEED flavor I like.

Edit: NOW sells pure fructose:
https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/fructose.html
If it really is 50% sweeter than table sugar, maybe that's the reason fructose-containing drinks taste so sweet. One would have to experiment to see if one's mouth blew out on long rides using a malto/fructose/flavored whey blend.

berner

Hammer is the only product I've used and works fine for me. I do not get hungry on the bike which results in not developing sufficient "steam" in the legs during a long ride. Hammer Perpetuem tastes fine to me, even after many hours, so I use it with good effect. I also use their Recoverite to good effect immediately after a ride.

hueyhoolihan

i vote for your "waste of money" option. i'd also like to find the guys leaving their bike food wrappers all over the road. what a bunch of losers they are.

CanadianBiker32

I am going to get some of the hammer nutrition products. Now I like to ask

Hammer Nutrition Perpetuem vs the HEED

If i do a long ride of 3 hours +
Would I need only perpetuem vs just heed or should i use both?
Have water bottle of heed for hydration and another bottle with perpetuem?
Does the perpetuem act more like liquid calories? type of thing?

would Perpetueum be alternative to using the Hammer Gels or any type of on bike food etc?

Or how should one be using Perpetuem for? thanks

Machka 

They are all different.

Have you read the ingredients list?

Have you read Hammer Nutrition's information?

Carbonfiberboy 

Never bring just HEED or Perpetuem or any other liquid food. Always have a bottle of plain water. HEED is more appropriate for gym and trainer sessions or short rides of 3 hours or less. Another approach is to use 2 plain water bottles and bring a flask of Hammer Gel and a few Endurolytes in one of their little flex purses. There are more calories in a flask of Hammer Gel than in a bottle of HEED.

Perpetuem is a liquid food. Don't use both that and HEED. They recommend it and Sustained Energy for rides of over 3 hours because they both contain protein. I usually mix 4 scoops of Perpetuem in a bottle and of course have a bottle of plain water. That Perpetuem bottle lasts me about 3 hours. For really long rides, I bring some more Perpetuem in a Ziploc. And for really long rides, I use liter bottles. Actually, I seldom use Perpetuem, my homebrew being much cheaper. However, Perpetuem works very well.

Depending on the ride, I sometimes use a liquid food and also bring a Hammer Gel flask for an added boost and in case I run low on the liquid food before I come to a place where I can mix more. Hammer makes a nice little stem holster for it; quicker and safer than a jersey pocket.

reef58

Carbonfiberboy, I assume you tolerate the whey protein with no issues riding hard?

CanadianBiker32

So i will update you all, purchased some hammer nutrition products. Will give it a try
just a question about using capsules, would i get same effect of chewing them up into pieces before swallowing though?

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes. I don't get the Hammer insistence on soy protein. They say whey makes ammonia. Maybe. I haven't noticed it. More people have trouble with soy than whey. Pure whey is quite digestible by most everyone because it contains no lactose, which is what gives some folks a problem with dairy. I bought the Perpetuem to try on my wife. She had a problem with the soy but I had good experiences with the Perpetuem until I used up the little $30 can. Using it up so quickly was the only bad experience I had with it.

Carbonfiberboy 

Uh no, don't do that. Most of them have really nasty tasting powder inside. Take with plenty of water to wash them down.

reef58

I am not a fan of soy protein, but to think about it I always mix my whey with milk. I will give it a shot with water

Thanks

Carbonfiberboy 

I use Optimum Nutrition Gold flavored whey, which is quite palatable with water. Fewer calories, too. Chocolate and Vanilla Ice Cream are the flavors I use. I also don't like milk before a hard ride, though I'm usually OK with it.

Machka 

Yuck!!

Why would you want to do that?

nkfrench 

I really like the hammer gel and endurofizz. They are easy to manage - the gel doesn't need refridgeration and is easily consumed from a 5-serving flask as needed. The endurofizz can be prepared right before riding without having to carry pouches and scoops. It tastes good and encourages me to drink.

Foil packets cut my small mouth and get my hands sticky. The flasks are much easier to use on the roll.

Heed - it seems to make more of a mess in the bottles and is more of a nuisance. I do like the taste and it seems to work well.

Usually I made a very strong electrolytes bottle in a kid's-size bottle and just take a few sips while using a camelbak as a large plain water supply.

CanadianBiker32

Update on use of hammer nutrition
Perpetuem tried- its good, very smooth, works well, no bad taste, in fact barely any taste and goes down easy
Heed - very good and simple
the gels - compact and great
Endurolytes - they do prevent cramps
Ant fatigue - i think they work
Recoverite, not needed if you have proper food but product does work and serves it purpose
overall thumbs up to Hammer nutrition

Carbonfiberboy 

I'd be interested in your comparison of Anti Fatigue caps vs. SportLegs, in use of course.