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Thread: Soy Milk

  1. #51
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    I don't mind sharing what I know. I don't mind comforting the fearful. But you've resorted to insults towards me... for no reason. I am out. Sorry you didn't take time to learn a little.

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    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    I love AND GROW organic food. Never worked for Monsanto.

    How about you... when the family comes over for dinner... how many are in food production. How many people in your church work in the farm industry? How REMOVED are you from the industry you seem so afraid of?
    My dads side of the family farmed heavily. I was born on a cattle farm and we routinely ate from the garden.
    we dont have a strong farming industry in the city I live in now, but I grow as much of my own food as I can and spend my saturday mornings at the farmers market buying organic produce and talking to farmers. And, being the anti american socialist that hates gmo, I avoid church.

  3. #53
    Senior Member reef58's Avatar
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    If you don't think soy can have negative consequences on men I suggest you do more reading. The evidence is compelling that is raises estradiol levels.

    Admittedly this is a high dose but:

    Dr. Steven Zeisel at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, in which male patients were given 300- to 600-mg doses of soy isoflavone. Some of the symptoms experienced by the subjects included breast enlargement, nipple discharge, and a decrease in testosterone levels.

    I don't feel like finding the studies, but I have done extensive reading on impacts on e2 levels and I avoid soy. Maybe I am just coo coo for coco puffs

    Read more: The Effects of Taking Soy Isoflavones on Men | eHow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    So... you didn't know that like animals.. plants also produce natural antibiotics? Your lack of plant knowledge may scare the begeebees out of you... but your lack of knowledge... doesn't worry ME.
    Hey Dave, I don't really want to argue with you, it goes nowhere. I am not an expert, but I think you would be better served to find out a little more about GMO food tech (why they modified the genes, what does the modification do) and also about what Monsanto products do. If plants already produce antibiotics that monsanto want, then why do they spend the money and effort in the first place.

    Lastly Mendel's experiment is about recessive and dominant genes. He did not produce bean plants with a new trait. He merely find out how to reproduced a particular trait that already existed. For a new trait to occur through natural mutation it takes many years.
    65% of all statistics are made up on the spot. - DD

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    Even Monsanto themselves admit to genetically modifying the plant genome to resist herbicide chemicals...

    Monsanto | Agricultural Seeds

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    Senior Member Hermespan's Avatar
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    Unless you are vegan might I suggest goats'' milk? For many years I refused cows' milk due to the snotting effect. However for various reasons I am now drinking organic goats' milk powder from Netherlands. A bit dear in Malaysia where I bought mine from CARING PHARMACY at USD18 for 500 gm

  7. #57
    Senior Member linnefaulk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeBMac View Post
    I buy the organic soy milk. Where I shop it's about the same price as the non-organic.
    Soy is the one thing I won't consume unless it is organic.
    sharon

  8. #58
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenturionIM View Post
    Hey Dave,..... If plants already produce antibiotics that monsanto want, then why do they spend the money and effort in the first place.
    Hey Centurion... if humans already produce antibiotics why do parents "spend the money and effort in the first place" to vaccinate their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by CenturionIM View Post
    Lastly Mendel's experiment is about recessive and dominant genes. He did not produce bean plants with a new trait. He merely find out how to reproduced a particular trait that already existed.
    Apparently... your google search education is lacking! Why couldn't you just admit you have never "studied" ANY of this. Your fears don't help you... or anyone else. Be brave.... read.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 View Post
    My dads side of the family...........
    ..... being the anti american socialist that hates gmo, I avoid church.
    I am not surprised. We have a lot in common. My Dad's side of the family fought and killed "anti american socialists" in WW2. My brother and I followed that rich tradition in Asia. I cycle on Saturdays... you on Sundays (I would guess). The "anti americans" have always provided cannon fodder and employment for American solders and sailors. Thank you... for your economic contributions to my family. It's almost... like were on the same side!
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 05-30-14 at 06:21 PM.

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    I think this fear of soy thing is stupid. But as a possible alternative, coconut milk is pretty good.

  11. #61
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    I think this fear of soy thing is stupid. But as a possible alternative, coconut milk is pretty good.
    +1

    There are lots of different choices ... rice milk, almond milk ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    Hey Centurion... if humans already produce antibiotics why do parents "spend the money and effort in the first place" to vaccinate their children?
    When did we get vaccines to protect us against bacterial infections?

  13. #63
    Senior Member GeorgeBMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    I think this fear of soy thing is stupid. But as a possible alternative, coconut milk is pretty good.
    Yes, I keep looking into it trying to find out why Soy is so generally feared and maligned. So far I have not found any convincing science to back up those fears and soy's poor reputation... What I HAVE found seems to come out as: No, Soy is not a perfect food (are there any anyway?) -- but its drawbacks tend to be minor and its benefits tend to outweigh its drawbacks.

    But, ALWAYS stay away from processed soy products -- especially concentrated soy protein extracts.

    But isn't that true of MOST foods? Cow's milk for instance has many positive qualities that promote health and well being. It also has many negative qualities that promote chronic diseases. And then you get the food manipulators extracting and concentrating 'this' from it or 'that' from it -- and (mostly) its disadvantages become concentrated as well...

    We REALLY need to get away from the all or nothing thinking that THIS food is all healthy and THAT food is all unhealthy... Both nature as a whole and our physiology in particular are just simply too complex for that kind of thinking to be valid.
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    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspclouseau View Post
    When did we get vaccines to protect us against bacterial infections?
    I am pretty sure since the late 50's.... you can do your own research for the exact date. Or... was it you were unaware that we have vaccines to protect us against bacterial infections?

    BTW Centurion you'd be easier to trade posts with if you stuck to one screen name.

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    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    I think this fear of soy thing is stupid.
    No one really knows the long term effects of soy on humans, and I am not about to take any chances and experiment on myself. There is a strong possibility that soy may have a femenizing effect on men. It's a fact that modern men have a much lower testosterone levels then men from previous generations when soy wasn't a big part of human diet..Soy is in many different foods today and almost impossible to avoid for anybody who eats the SAD diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    But as a possible alternative, coconut milk is pretty good.
    Yikes !..Terrible choice for a recovery drink after an intense workout. Coconut milk is all fat with no carbs and no protein...Coconut may be ok for low-carbers or to be used for cooking or as a dessert but it's not a good alternative to dairy milk. I can easily drink 2 litres of dairy milk per day but I just can't imagine drinking 2 litres of coconut milk without making myself sick and vomiting.

    If anybody has lactose intolerance then the best alternative would be to just get some
    brown rice/pea protein powder and mix it with water. It's a lot better then soy
    Last edited by wolfchild; 05-31-14 at 11:05 AM.

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    There are way too many environmental factors that might affect claimed lowered testosterone levels, and sheeting the cause home to one single element, soy, is stretching the rubber band to breaking point.

    How about trying the concept that lower physical activity and obesity in general are primary causes?
    Dream. Dare. Do.

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    I also have to laugh a little. Soy, as far as I can tell, plays a significant role in the Eastern diet. Yet I don't see too many men with the symptoms of soy overload when I visit there.

    Start here with this admittedly blog post, but still helps get some idea on the emphasis on soy in many Asian diets:
    Dream. Dare. Do.

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    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    I also have to laugh a little. Soy, as far as I can tell, plays a significant role in the Eastern diet. Yet I don't see too many men with the symptoms of soy overload when I visit there.
    Maybe that's why majority of oriental people are so short and tiny, I know because I've worked with many of them and there are lot of them in my area where I live...And there is nothing wrong with that, it's a cultural thing, we are what we eat or should I say we become what we eat....I have nothing against other peoples diets, but what ticks me off is when people try to market soy as some super miracle food.
    For oriental people soy is just normal food and they don't make a big deal about it...OTOH we westerners jump on a marketing bandwagon and try to make soy products into some miracle food with supernatural healing powers...And BTW the book China Study is inaccurate, biased and way off the mark.
    Last edited by wolfchild; 05-31-14 at 08:26 PM.

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    Senior Member Spld cyclist's Avatar
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    It's a shame. If the Japanese would just stop eating so much soy, they would likely go from having the world's 2nd highest life expectancy to just living forever.

    List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    And the takeaway from that article is nothing. And "The Shocking Truth" in the headline? Really? What shocking truth is there in the article?
    Dream. Dare. Do.

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    Adults doesn't need to drink milk. Instead you can eat dairy products like cheese, yogourt, kefir...

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    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    And the takeaway from that article is nothing. And "The Shocking Truth" in the headline? Really? What shocking truth is there in the article?
    It seems to be fairly balanced with the pros and cons of soybeans and the inconclusive research... that would be the takeaway.

    "Because itís cheap and has certain functional properties, soybean oil and soy protein have found their way into all sorts of processed foods, so most people in the U.S. are consuming significant amounts of soy without even knowing about it."

    We avoid processed oils like canola, corn, and soybean (which are high in Omega 6 fatty acids)... and wonder how many people realize how much soybean oil they are consuming ?

    Also note that much of the positive press on the benefits of soy come from soy producers...

    Soy milk is minimally processed in comparison to what has to be done to extract oil, eating soybeans would be preferable to having it slipped into your food and if a child is not lactose intolerant or has access to mother's milk, why would you give them soy based formula ?

    Our children never saw formula in their lives.

    I think that the phytoestrogens in soy can cause more problems for women than they do men since they are more receptive and affected by estrogen, or the phytoestrogen from soy... my wife could not eat much soy because it aggravated female issues and would limit her fermented soy intake as well.

    If I eat any quantity of soy I become an unpleasant individual to be around as it does not agree with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    It seems to be fairly balanced with the pros and cons of soybeans and the inconclusive research... that would be the takeaway.

    "Because it’s cheap and has certain functional properties, soybean oil and soy protein have found their way into all sorts of processed foods, so most people in the U.S. are consuming significant amounts of soy without even knowing about it."

    We avoid processed oils like canola, corn, and soybean (which are high in Omega 6 fatty acids)... and wonder how many people realize how much soybean oil they are consuming ?

    Also note that much of the positive press on the benefits of soy come from soy producers...

    Soy milk is minimally processed in comparison to what has to be done to extract oil, eating soybeans would be preferable to having it slipped into your food and if a child is not lactose intolerant or has access to mother's milk, why would you give them soy based formula ?

    Our children never saw formula in their lives.

    I think that the phytoestrogens in soy can cause more problems for women than they do men since they are more receptive and affected by estrogen, or the phytoestrogen from soy... my wife could not eat much soy because it aggravated female issues and would limit her fermented soy intake as well.

    If I eat any quantity of soy I become an unpleasant individual to be around as it does not agree with me.
    And most of the negative media comes from people who either don't have a clue what they are talking about, or ignore statements such as those in the linked article about the "maybes", "mights" and "coulds". That article is totally inconclusive about any of the issues claimed to be associated with soy. The best one is that women are more likely to suffer breast cancer... but then there is a likelihood they won't and may have a decreased incidence when ingesting soy.

    I certainly believe that any industry that is being attacked ad nauseum should do something such as its own research to counter the hysteria that is whipped up about it...the type of inaccurate, plainly inconsistent and often outright mischievous hysteria that emerges time and again in threads on this forum. Often all based on a research pool of n=1.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  25. #75
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    And most of the negative media comes from people who either don't have a clue what they are talking about, or ignore statements such as those in the linked article about the "maybes", "mights" and "coulds". That article is totally inconclusive about any of the issues claimed to be associated with soy. The best one is that women are more likely to suffer breast cancer... but then there is a likelihood they won't and may have a decreased incidence when ingesting soy.

    I certainly believe that any industry that is being attacked ad nauseum should do something such as its own research to counter the hysteria that is whipped up about it...the type of inaccurate, plainly inconsistent and often outright mischievous hysteria that emerges time and again in threads on this forum. Often all based on a research pool of n=1.
    It has been well documented that the consumption of soy can cause menstrual issues which points to it's effects as an endocrine disruptor and in my wife's case, endometriosis made her particularly sensitive to unfermented soy which increased her levels of pain which again, points to soy as being an endocrine disruptor.

    In other cases it can relieve symptoms and again, this stems from the phytoestrogen found in soy.

    It is strongly suggested that infants should not be fed soy formula unless they have issues with cow's milk or are not breastfeeding as they are much more sensitive to the effects of soy than adults and consume much larger quantities when they are nursing.

    Do you suffer from such an extreme case cognitive dissonance to not recognize that this might be a problem ?

    Soy is second to corn as a cash crop in the U.S. (if we exclude cannabis) and it is big business with sales of soy based products topping 5 billion dollars a year, the U.S. is also the world's largest producer of soybeans which can also lay claim to being the most genetically modified crop on the planet because Monsanto is in the business of selling Roundup.

    I call this healthy skepticism... not hysteria.

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