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    Senior Member steve-in-kville's Avatar
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    Week 10 of Paleo, Need help!

    I am on week 10 of eliminating all processes foods from my diet (cheat meal once every two weeks). I lost 20 pounds and have another 20 to go. Problem is, I've been hovering at the same weight for going on three weeks. I am commuting by bike every day, but have not gotten any "fun" rides or training rides in.

    So, should I tweak my diet some more, wait it out, or up my weekly mileage on the bike? I am only doing 40 miles/week, but I could easy double that. I was really pumped about my weight loss but I am getting frustrated since the loss stopped.
    Best regards - steve
    ****************

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    Senior Member Ursa Minor's Avatar
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    For me portion control is the biggest factor in losing weight. I was 352 and went low carb. Most diets work if you stay on them.
    Today I weighed 198 but I've had long stretches where my weight didn't go down because I wasn't vigilant about portion control.

    Anyway good luck to you.

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    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    There's a thread for this ...

    Low Carb / Paleo Weirdos Check In Here

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    Browsing around out of curiosity (I'm not on a paleo diet so I don't know much more than the basics), I just read about two potential culprits if you've hit a temporary plateau: metabolic adaptation and diet creep. But I think their definition of a plateau was no weight loss after a lot longer than three weeks. Anyway, you can tell if you're experiencing diet creep by keeping a food diary for a few days. Metabolic adaptation, I didn't read much, but I would guess your body has adapted to your activity level. Apparently with that one you need to boost things a bit with different physical activities or more/more intense activity. Some people have also had luck breaking a plateau by either increasing or decreasing carbs. In other words, there are things to try to get you back to losing weight.

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    Senior Member Spld cyclist's Avatar
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    Some good thoughts in this article: 9 Reasons Fat Loss is Always Slower Than You?d Like

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    Get into that weirdo forum before the police get you......

    40 miles per week probably burns less than a third of a pound in fat (1200-1300 calories)

    You lost 20 pounds. You basal metabolic rate is lower. You are in equilabilrim. You either now need to eat less and/or ride more to loss more weight. The other factor improved efficiency riding. As we get fit, we become more efficient.

    Cut 100 cals per day and add that 40 miles per week. You will burn another half pound of fat per week.

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    Senior Member mr_pedro's Avatar
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    As you loose weight, you need less and less calories to maintain your wait. Not taking into account any extreme activities, you need about 14 Cal per pound per day to maintain your weight. This also means that if you just dropped 20 lbs, you are now burning 300 Cal less. Add to that that you might have increased your daily intake with 100 or 200 Cal without noticing and there there is your former 500 Cal deficit that now turned into an equilibrium.

    Anyhow, if currently your weight is remaining constant and you want to loose some more, you need to eat less. Do your own estimate of how many calories you are currently eating, then try to eat 500 Cal less.

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    It's Bikeforums, the answer is almost always "ride your bike more".

    Congrats on the weight loss.

  9. #9
    Senior Member steve-in-kville's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies! Going unprocessed is a daily adventure. I discovered I am gluten intolerant, so thats been interesting.

    One area I didn't think of is alcohol. I still consume on a daily basis, mostly potato-based vodka and some wine. I think I am gonna cut out all booze for a few weeks and see how my body reacts.
    Best regards - steve
    ****************

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    Add some resistance (weight) workouts. Adding muscle will increase your metabolic burn.
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    40 miles a week isn't much if your goal is to lose weight. It's fine if you're just trying to get the health benefits of exercise however. I didn't lose any weight for a year riding 50-60 miles per week progressing up to 100 miles per week at the end of the year. Somewhere north of 100 miles per week is where I started losing weight. Also, be patient, 2 1/2 months is nothing if you're in this for the long haul.

  12. #12
    Senior Member chandltp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-in-kville View Post
    One area I didn't think of is alcohol. I still consume on a daily basis, mostly potato-based vodka and some wine. I think I am gonna cut out all booze for a few weeks and see how my body reacts.
    Alcohol makes it almost impossible for me to lose weight. Both from a caloric standpoint as well as cravings.

    Caffeine also makes it difficult for me.. messes with my appetite regulation.
    There are 10 types of people, those that understand binary and those that don't.

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    Keep experimenting, with food types, portions, plus adding more exercise. I started something close to the Atkins diet a couple of months ago. I only have about 10 pounds to lose, but was more interested in preventing weight gain. I'm also interested in the potential health benefits of dropping carbs. I've lost maybe one pound. :-) I'm a bit frustrated as I'm down to about 10 grams of carbs a day. If this doesn't do it then I'll be resigned to a very slow weight loss.

    I would caution about moving straight into gluten-free foods. This is what we did a year ago for my partner's health issues. Instead of lowering carb intake, we may have increased it in our zeal to try gluten-free alternatives. On went the gluten-free pasta, bread, etc. Try to eat more veggies, like the salad for a meal. We make "rice" with cauliflower. It's an adventure, for sure, but it may be easier to lose weight if you can avoid eating starchy foods in every meal. And if you get the carbs down to a low amount, you can eat more saturated fat. I find this more satisfying and don't really miss the bread, etc. But then we both cook, and controlling your diet is easier if you cook at home.

    I agree about the daily food journal, plus read about basal metabolic rate (BMR) and take a look at your calorie intake. No one wants to count calories, but it might be good to get an idea of where you are compared to the recommendations. That's just my opinion, and I'm interested in what others advise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    Alcohol makes it almost impossible for me to lose weight. Both from a caloric standpoint as well as cravings.

    Caffeine also makes it difficult for me.. messes with my appetite regulation.
    I cut out all booze this year and I'm down to a 30" pant at 37 years old which is smaller than my size in high school. Even if you are drink low calorie, no carb hard liquor your body burns the alcohol before food calories and it increases estrogen levels so cutting it out can make a huge difference
    http://www.pedalroom.com/members/rms13

  15. #15
    Senior Member steve-in-kville's Avatar
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    The more I read about how booze effects the body, the more I want to stay away from it. People are amazed at how Tour riders have a glass or two of wine with their meals and think its okay. But those guys are riding 100 miles, day after day!! They can afford the intake.
    Best regards - steve
    ****************

  16. #16
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-in-kville View Post
    The more I read about how booze effects the body, the more I want to stay away from it. People are amazed at how Tour riders have a glass or two of wine with their meals and think its okay. But those guys are riding 100 miles, day after day!! They can afford the intake.
    Having a glass of wine with your dinner few times per week is OK , nothing wrong with that...It's the beer and hard booze that's bad. Every beer drinker I've seen has a pot belly, even if the rest of their body is skinny and their arms and legs look like twigs. Our modern beer is not the same as the beer of thousands of years ago, a lot of modern beers have HFCS's added to it, hops also makes beer estrogenic which is why it's so easy to gain weight from drinking it... Long time ago people were a lot more active then they are today so it was easy for them to stay slim and muscular... It's simple, if you want to slim down at your waist them you need to kick the beer/booze habit and get active.

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    Ride your bike more - you really need to put at least an hour a day hard riding, or even 2 hours a day, is much better because in reality you won't be able to ride every day. Are you using a HRM? Good inexpensive investment to understand when your body is working as it should. Riding 40 miles a week just isn't enough. Riding by time and HR is one of the simpler methods.

    Also ditch all alcohol for some specific period, say 6 months or a year and see how that goes. My reasoning for a specific length of time is that is an attainable, close-ended goal so you are more likely to achieve it as a test run.

    There, I just gave you the advice I should be following. I took up commuting to boost the miles, and really need to drop the single-drink-before-bed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
    Having a glass of wine with your dinner few times per week is OK , nothing wrong with that...It's the beer and hard booze that's bad. Every beer drinker I've seen has a pot belly, even if the rest of their body is skinny and their arms and legs look like twigs. Our modern beer is not the same as the beer of thousands of years ago, a lot of modern beers have HFCS's added to it, hops also makes beer estrogenic which is why it's so easy to gain weight from drinking it... Long time ago people were a lot more active then they are today so it was easy for them to stay slim and muscular... It's simple, if you want to slim down at your waist them you need to kick the beer/booze habit and get active.
    Beer is bad because it's has gluten (if you are going paleo that's a no no), it is high in carbs and high in empty calories. The average beer is 120-200 calories. You go out for a night of drinking at the pub with some buddies and you can easily have 1000 empty calories that provide no nutritional value at all. For most of us that will quickly settle into a spare tire. Hard liquor is actually the least offensive alcohol you can have. Distilled spirits themselves have 0 carbs or sugar and about 90-100 calories. Most paleo drinkers swear by good tequila because it's known to have a low insulin response. Of course we are talking spirits with no mixer or a zero calorie mixer like lime juice and soda water. Most people drink mixed drinks with coke, fruit juices and other sugary things that up your calories and carbs above the average beer. Red wine is a close second in "healthiness" but some would say it's first because of added heart health (which you can get from krill or fish oil just as easily). But no matter what you drink, you're body stops burning the rest of your calories until it burns all the alcohol for energy which makes your body inefficient.
    TDF riders are in another category than any of us. My friend is a ironman triathlete and on his hard training days he burns 10K calories. I'm sure TDF riders are doing the same thing on tour and training. When your calorie deficit is that high you can pretty much put anything and everything into your body and stay lean and trim.

    Back to OP's questions. I would also recommend upping your riding to at least 80-100 miles per week. I also commute by bike but I have added several 20-40 mile rides during the week. I cut out alcohol first and upped my riding to 80-100+ miles a week about 5 months later and that is when weight really came off. I'm 5'11 and was 205 a year ago when I started cycling. This may I was down to about 185 and that's when I upped my cycling output and now I'm 165.

    I also recommend you do some sort of strength training. That is very important to building lean muscle and boosting testosterone which in turn will help you lean out. If you have access to a gym with barbells look into a program like Starting Strength or 531 which are based on compound lifts (squats, deadlifts etc) and high weight/low reps. I'm also a fan of body weight work which you can do for free. If you have access to a park that has pull up bars that is a great asset for free but even if you don't there is plenty you can do with no equipment. This guy is a great entry point for body weight and has a lot of youtube videos:

    Al Kavadlo ? We're Working Out! | We're Working Out!

    I'd also be careful about cycling too much. Everything depends on goals. If you are going to race then sure you need to ride even more. But if you are looking to lose weight and be healthy it's not needed. If you follow paleo you'll see that most people in that world are against chronic cardio. Sprinting is considered optimal cardio. That is why I am fine doing a couple of 20-30 mile rides a week and sprinting and doing intervals instead of feeling like my weekend rides all have to be 50 miles+ like a lot of people I know do..
    http://www.pedalroom.com/members/rms13

  19. #19
    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms13 View Post

    I also recommend you do some sort of strength training. That is very important to building lean muscle and boosting testosterone which in turn will help you lean out. If you have access to a gym with barbells look into a program like Starting Strength or 531 which are based on compound lifts (squats, deadlifts etc) and high weight/low reps. I'm also a fan of body weight work which you can do for free. If you have access to a park that has pull up bars that is a great asset for free but even if you don't there is plenty you can do with no equipment. This guy is a great entry point for body weight and has a lot of youtube videos:

    Al Kavadlo ? We're Working Out! | We're Working Out!
    +1...I am a huge big fan of bodyweight calisthenics ...I also do a little bit of weight lifting but the majority of my strength training involves bodyweight calisthenics.

  20. #20
    Legs; OK! Lungs; not! bobthib's Avatar
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    If you are doing low carb, you MUST limit protein intake also. You also MUST increase fat intake. 10% carb, 10-15% protein and the balance in fat is a good ratio. You will be amazed as you appetite subsides and the weight melts away. I've been on a lchf diet for 2 1/2 years. I was stuck at 175 despite riding 200 MI a week for years. The problem was TOO MANY CARBS! with in a month I was down to 163 and have maintained that.
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    I started with something like paleo, took off about 10, realized I was still pouring a less-than-happy number of empty calories in alcohol into myself, so I cut that out. I took off another 15ish, and then started doing calorie-averaged eating... I averaged out to about 1500-1700 calories a day, with one or two fast days a week, and one or two "doubling up" days. I finished at about 45 pounds lost all told, and have now added cycling back in to try and build some aerobic fitness, add strength, and eat more normally without getting the weight back on.

    If you stop losing, look at what other variables you can fiddle with. I don't know from the literature, but I found that the weekly fasts with my calories averaged out were where I lost weight consistently, roughly 2 pounds a week would average out coming off. If you aren't getting where you need to go, activity is good, but caloric levels are all important. It's not easy, but it's what must be done... when you start thinking about almonds a quarter cup at a time, and so on, you change your perspective.

    I don't think I could have been as active as I am now with that caloric intake, but it helped get to a good level where I can now hopefully maintain current weight and build the aerobic engine as well. Dropping the booze was a major accelerator for the loss, and I've stuck with it 100% for the past 4 months or so. The entire losing weight process for me went from mid-February to somewhere in July before I returned to greater normalcy, so it was quick but concerted.
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    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-in-kville View Post
    I am on week 10 of eliminating all processes foods from my diet (cheat meal once every two weeks). I lost 20 pounds and have another 20 to go. Problem is, I've been hovering at the same weight for going on three weeks. I am commuting by bike every day, but have not gotten any "fun" rides or training rides in.

    So, should I tweak my diet some more, wait it out, or up my weekly mileage on the bike? I am only doing 40 miles/week, but I could easy double that. I was really pumped about my weight loss but I am getting frustrated since the loss stopped.
    I bet it took more than 10 weeks to gain the extra 40 pounds and 40 miles a week is not a lot of riding although one does not have to exercise to extremes to lose weight.

    I would not advise that you cut your caloric intake below your body's basic needs, eliminating the daily dram will probably result in weight loss as the sugars in the alcohol have probably put you into a stall.

    I am 143 pounds (race weight) and eat 2500 - 3000 calories a day and over the past few weekends have gone on rides of 222 and 125 km and bumped up my carbs (as well as everything else) while still avoiding wheat and processed foods (for the most part).

    I have also been riding an easy 15 -30 miles a day and putting in some harder more intense efforts on the weekend... if you can easily do 80 miles a week then I'd do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthib View Post
    If you are doing low carb, you MUST limit protein intake also.

    Why?

  24. #24
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthib View Post
    If you are doing low carb, you MUST limit protein intake also. You also MUST increase fat intake. 10% carb, 10-15% protein and the balance in fat is a good ratio. You will be amazed as you appetite subsides and the weight melts away. I've been on a lchf diet for 2 1/2 years. I was stuck at 175 despite riding 200 MI a week for years. The problem was TOO MANY CARBS! with in a month I was down to 163 and have maintained that.
    More correctly, your protein should be based on your size, activity level, and fitness goals, the reduction in carbs needs to be offset with an increase in fats so that the caloric intake is consistent.

    Excess protein will be converted to glycogen and causes stalls in weight loss.

  25. #25
    Legs; OK! Lungs; not! bobthib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    More correctly, your protein should be based on your size, activity level, and fitness goals, the reduction in carbs needs to be offset with an increase in fats so that the caloric intake is consistent.

    Excess protein will be converted to glycogen and causes stalls in weight loss.
    Sixty Fiver, thank you for pointing out my omission. Indeed my recommendation could be misleading and difficult to follow. Indeed a better approach to protein intake should consider the items you mentioned. Your advice is much simpler, and for most people is based on about 1/2 gram per pound of body weight (or about 1 gram per kilogram.) Extreme exercise could support a higher level.

    Sorry for the mixed metrics, but that's the way it's explained on all of the reference sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1748357 View Post
    Why?
    1748357, the reason is something called "gluconeogenesis" which is the body's reaction to low carbohydrate intake in the absence of adequate fat intake. In this case the body will take excess protein and convert it to glucose. It is very taxing on the liver, and not good long term.
    Last edited by bobthib; 09-08-14 at 08:44 PM.
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