UnfilteredDregs

I just got my Garmin HRM slapped it on and went out for a spin, was windy and I got on it a bit and this is what Strava showed me:



Admittedly not very scientific yet, literally I just wanted to see what a ride on a known route looks like with me putting some oomph into it. I'd been off the bike for a few weeks (four...) due to a shoulder injury and am just getting around to some saddle time again. Day before I did a 32 mile "easy," effort. Not that it means anything but my avg spd for this route is slow compared to my usual, lot's of stop and go as well due to lights and such...



My heart rate peaked at 189 quite a few times.. I'm 44yo 204#. My resting pulse in the AM is mid 60s.

The bit of reading I've done tells me that I stand to benefit a great deal from doing some strictly Zone 2 and Zone 3 riding for some time, I summarized an outline for an approach:


Heart Rate Training Plan: "The Basics"

Go slower, get faster-

Key session: 3hrs in Zone 2. Stay in the zone and stick to it. Don’t be tempted to push on the hills.

Burn fat, save time-

Key session: 15min warm-up and then 4-6 30sec sprints with 4-5min rest. (Repeat...)

Become an endurance monster

By doing one session of 3-4 hours in Zone 2 and another session of 2 hours in Zone 3 every week your endurance will come on in leaps and bounds.

Key session: 3-4hrs in Zone 2 with 10min burst of Zone 3-4 every hour.


I've ridden a few centuries this past year, etc.. I'm quite comfortable with a long time in the saddle..

Yes I do realize a more accurate assessment of my max heart rate is needed, I do have previous cardiac data, stress test, which leads me to believe what the Garmin showed me here is close to spot on...


Anyhow... I'm looking for something basic and pragmatic and I figure what I've outlined above is a good place to start.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

caloso

I was just going to say you need to know what your MaxHR or LTHR is to set zones, but you mentioned that. I'd say do a proper test and gather more data as you go along.

GeorgeBMac

I agree... I would add that the HRM adds the possibility of another aspect/benefit: The ability to track and analyze: effort, frequency and duration over time...

For that I use DigiFit rather than Strava. DigiFit provides a better heart rate analysis than does Strava -- although that may be because I do not have the premium membership level at Strava. Actually, I use both: Strava tracks miles by bike the best, while Digifit tracks heart rate better -- although each of them overlaps with the other. I also supplement both of them with spreadsheets...

I know that many on this forum marginalize using heart rate data -- but it does offer at least one advantage over subjective measurements like LT, Vt1, VT2, VO2Max etc... It provides an objective measurement that can be tracked over time with charts and graphs, etc...

For myself: I know that my cardiac profile (LT, VO2Max, etc.) has changed considerably since it was measured on a treadmill 18 months ago -- and that those measurements are almost worthless to me now. But, my exercise physiologist insists that the max HR does not change with fitness. Conversely, (although he has not commented on this) it has been shown to vary based on the type of exercise: that the max HR from a treadmill is not the same as the MaxHR measured on a trainer. I have not verified that, but I do find it credible.

Best of luck to you with your monitor... May you derive great benefit from it!

achoo

Ride more. You hadn't ridden hard in a while, and IME that means your HR will be higher than it would had you been riding regularly.

Because 3/4 of your time in HR z4/5 is a LOT for a 2-hour ride, especially given you mentioned you went slower than normal.

It wouldn't surprise me if you find out via testing or riding more that your current max and/or LT HR is set too low, skewing your zones downward.

UnfilteredDregs

I figured that would be part of it, meaning I just got back in the saddle after a month.

It was a very windy day, but I was dogging it as well, I'm confident I made quite a few maximum efforts so although I need to perform an accurate LTHR 30 minute test I'm betting that 189 is my max hr.

In the meantime I've set my zones as per Joe Friel?:

gregf83 

My guess is your max is quite a bit higher than 189. Personally, I'm lucky if I hit my max once every month or two. After a max effort, it takes a while to recover. Hard efforts in the middle of a ride/race almost never elicit maxHR. If I did that in a race I'd be dropped for sure. To get maxHR I need to go fairly hard into a hill to get my hr up to 150 to 160 and then go all out up the hill for 30-60secs. My max is around 183 and I usually only get there when it's hot out. A normal sprint in a group ride might get me to 177.

My HR is also about 5-10 beats higher than normal after 2-3 days off the bike and 5-10 higher early in the morning vs the aft or evening.

UnfilteredDregs

You think so? I'm 44yo... Other guys I spoke with think that's high for my age already...but yeah, you're right, only one way to find out. I would say I dropped myself at least once during this particular ride...tongue hanging out, barely rolling, lmao

Voodoo76

Make sure you recover well. Particularly as an older rider 85% to 90% of your weekly volume should be Zone 2. For even an 8 hour week that's a 48 to 72 min of interval time. That's a lot to recover from if your ride it hard enough.

Back when HR training was the thing to do, before power became wide spread, we were coached to not ride in zone 3. Either 2 or 4/5. The thought was that Zone 3 was hard enough that you had to recover, but without as much gain as you got from the higher zones. It was sort of a no mans land.

The hardest discipline for a lot of riders to maintain is going slow enough to have energy for really hard efforts when they are called for. Good tip; If you can, turn off or tape over the speed display on your computer, look at just time and hr during Z2 rides.

hueyhoolihan

IME, HRMs are a fantastic devices to play with until you can pretty much guess what your HR is at all times by gauging how miserable you feel. it won't take long. after about ten rides or so, i stopped looking. YMMV.

achoo

And max HR really isn't the number you want to base your training zones on anyway. LTHR is much better.

caloso

It might be high, but it's not unheard of. I'm 47 and have hit 193 this season. Bike Ride Profile | Airport Ride near Sacramento | Times and Records | Strava

LGHT

I wouldn't even look at those numbers since you've been off the bike for a bit. I'm the same age, about 10 lbs heavier and after 2 weeks of not riding it felt like I haven't rode in months. 2 weeks of riding 3 times a week and I could do a ride like the one you posted in a little over an hour with a max hr that never got above 170 and I'm only been riding a few months. I have a feeling if you do that same ride after a few weeks of riding the numbers will be a lot different.

Carbonfiberboy 

Advice:
So this is how I've always gotten my MHR: There's a 4000' climb I do most every year when I'm in top shape. I'm a slow climber, so it takes me a while. For the lower section, I ride in the lower end of the sweet spot. There's a spot that's ~55' from the top for me. When I get there, I kick it up to ~LT and hold that for 45'. Then the climb flattens out a bit and I kick it into the anaerobic range for the last 10'. About 200 yards from the parking lot at the top, it flattens out, so I come up and sprint that. I'll hit MHR right at the parking lot. It's the highest HR I'll see all year. Nothing else does it quite like that.

More seriously speaking, test your LTHR once a month. Besides a check on HR, you can monitor improvement. I use the Carmichael TTCC test:
https://www.indoorcyclingassociation....R-or-Power.pdf

TrainingPeaks offers several methods to set zones off your LTHR.

UnfilteredDregs

Yeah, I set up certain pages on the Garmin screen as per that kind of advice so I don't end up chasing numbers....I have to say, staying within Zone 2 feels awfully sedate and slow. I understand the logic is that with enough time my body will become more efficient and my power will creep up for the lower heart rate zones...?

I found myself doing that, meaning correlating how I feel versus the what zone the HRM is indicating. There is a perceptible crossover point, I guess at the aerobic/anaerobic threshold?


Thanks all. I will endeavor to get an accurate MHR, I guess the big question for me is how exactly does a big Zone 2 only base make you faster in the long run?

Carbonfiberboy 

You don't really need your MHR. I meant my comment as a bit of a joke. I mean if that's what you have to do . . . All you need is to learn to feel where your VT1 is. VT2 is really easy - it's where you start to pant.

My understanding is that you have two energy systems: aerobic and anaerobic. The polarized system is to train them both separately. I think the idea is that most folks never really train their aerobic system properly because they are always sticking in a little z3 or z4 and that subs anaerobic for aerobic, thus diminishing aerobic zone capacity.

I notice that on rides with a lot of climbing, if I stick strictly to below VT1, the riding feels hard. I'm going really slowly but it feels like it would be very difficult to go much faster, when in reality I could be climbing twice as fast. I think what's happening is that is as hard I can climb burning only fat, i.e. only in the aerobic zone. Once I bump it up into zone 3 or so it becomes much easier because then I have lactate to burn. I notice that when I keep it down like that, I eat only about 1/3 the calories during a ride that I would eat if I were riding much faster - even though the ride takes longer. So I think that's evidence that I'm burning mostly fat.

GeorgeBMac

Not for me...
... I'm not sure of the reason -- it may be simply that I don't know what to look for. But no, not for me...

Carbonfiberboy 

IME it's the same for everyone. Say you're on a long climb and you slowly but continuously increase the effort. At the bottom, you'll be breathing more or less normally. Pretty soon you'll notice that you're a lot more comfortable if you breath deeply and slowly. Then you notice that your deep and slow breathing rate has begun to get faster (VT1). As you climb faster and faster, you'll have to increase the depth of your breathing to keep in under control: you expand your belly first (belly breathing) and then fill your chest. You'll keep doing that faster and faster. Somewhere in this range will be your LT. Then quite suddenly you simply cannot get enough air no matter how deeply and rapidly you do those deep breaths: you begin to pant. It's involuntary. That's VT2. If you can't reach VT2, you need a lot more strength.

Voodoo76

Yes, over the course of a season you will find that you feel the same but are significantly faster on your Zone 2 rides. Requires a lot of patience.

cafzali

This is absolutely true. I'm not a fan of the HRM straps because their accuracy can vary so much, especially as we approach cold and dry conditions here in the Northeast. Electrode gel can make them more reliable, but even using that, I've still found mine isn't that reliable for the first 5-10 minutes. The thing is, once you get used to training with heart-rate stats, you will get to where you can fairly easily and accurately gauge where your heart rate is.

If you're truly doing anywhere around 160-180, breathing should be intensified and you wouldn't be able to carry on a conversation easily. I'm your age and my HR basically tops out at 160-170 in most cases, but I know that's not my max because I've brought my top figure down over the years through exercise. IOW, as you get more fit, you will find it harder and harder to reach your max.

To me, the most important thing to note is that as your fitness increases, you'll spend more of your overall workout time in Zones 2-4 and will rarely get higher than that. Again, seeing the fact that your fitness is actually improving is the most valuable thing about HRM to me.

The HRM straps have irritated me to the point that I've ordered a Mio Link to see if it's more reliable and allows me to "ditch" the hassles associated with an HRM strap.

Carbonfiberboy 

HRMs have always worked well for me over the past 20 years. I wash the strap after every use. If it's the kind of strap that wears out, next time I buy the kind that doesn't. I use Spectra Gel if I really care. I use Polar or Garmin devices. Besides training intensity, it's a big help to be able to tell the state of my training, nutrition, or hydration with a HRM.

GeorgeBMac

I'll check that out! Although I'll probably have to do it indoors on something mechanical as, outdoors on an actual bike, I find my rides too broken up with walkers, other bikes, kids, dogs, crossings, hills & knobs, etc. to maintain any level of consistent output. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why I have not experienced those things: too much inconsistency...
.
I ride on rails-to-trails that are clear enough to get up some speed and effort, but still have traffic on them -- it's why I use free-ride pedals rather than clipless: I want to be able to stop quickly when something jumps in front of me without worrying about falling over.


Added: I do experience what you describe on the elliptical. But then, after the VT2 stage I find my breathing settles down substantially and feels much more comfortable. Obviously, at that point I am above my VO2Max and cannot keep it up for long -- but then, that's why they have the intervals in HIIT!

GeorgeBMac

I use a Polar H7 attached via Bluetooth to an IPhone and have not experienced the difficulties you have experienced.

I find it mostly useful to monitor my heart rate regardless of how I feel that particular day: I find that one day my heart rate will be running 10-20% below what it was the day before even though my perceived effort has not changed. That doesn't necessarily change my ride, but it does let me know where I stand.

But, even more importantly, it enables me to track my effort week to week and month to month with an objective recording of distance, duration, and effort. I find it motivating..