Machka 

But don't kill yourself on the stationary bike ... ride, but ride easy for the next couple weeks. Just cruise. Also, going for a 2-3 km walk later in the day or the day after your ride can help to stretch things out and help things feel better.

Even right now, if every your quads feel tight and stiff on every step, go for a 2-3 km walk and walk it out.



And ... I started a thread now located right below this one about calorie tracking websites. It might not be a bad idea to track your food intake for a few weeks and just to see what's what in that regard.

LGHT

Well I'm actually doing hills for the GMR ride in about 2 weeks and based on the notes it's 5,000' incline so taking it easy isn't an option. That route is tough and I want to be ready. If I take 2 weeks off or slow I don't think I'll make it on that route. If I can get in at least another 10k' in incline in 2 weeks I may have a chance, but if not I just won't be ready.

Machka 

Well then ... I guess you're just going to remain sore till then.


But sometimes it helps to back off just before a big challenge to allow your muscles to heal.

Heathpack 

If this helps as a reality check, I am a woman, about your age. I climbed up Glendora Mt Rd last weekend, just the first 9 miles, then we turned off to head up to Crystal Lake. I recorded the first 8.5 miles of the climb as a lap, this was the base of the hill to the hut. My average power as recorded by my power meter on that lap was exactly 150 watts, or around 2.4 watts/kg, it took me just over an hour.

I am an endurance person, and I frequently ride very long durations. A good solid effort for a medium-duration (3-5 hr) ride for me works out to be an average of 75% of FTP. For you, that is around 115 watts, which is 1.1 watts/kg. And without solid endurance training, even 75% of FTP for a multi-hour ride is going to be tough. I'm not saying you can't do this, just that there is more to it than a stated desire to do the ride. It actually takes a long time to train for stuff like this.

I am a really hard worker. I have a coach. I get up at 3:50am two-three times a week and ride really hard 1.5 to two hours interval workouts on my trainer before work. I ride another 10-12 hours on the weekend. Around 150-200 miles and 10-15,000 ft of climbing per week. All of that and it still took me two months of that kind of work to increase my FTP by 5%.

So IMO you're expecting too much too soon. You are working too hard when you ride. You need to back off and if you can't ride that much because of life constraints, then just accept it will take you way longer than you want to prep for rides. It's no big deal, that's how life goes. Unless something is really off in your power numbers, I guess that's possible.

Carbonfiberboy 

Listen to Heathpack. She knows. In the OP you said you weren't training for anything. Now it's a 4100' climbing ride in 2 weeks. It's too much. Give yourself another year to get in some sort of shape. She's a professional person and she finds time to train. I have a friend with a full time job, a wife and 2 kids and he trained for and rode solo RAAM. And he's still very happily married. So two things: either train or don't train, but get the idea of goals out of your head. It's not good for you at this time.

Heathpack 

Haha, thanks, I'm still a newby though & everyone should take what I say with a grain of salt.

Two more things, though:
1. In no way did I mean to imply that you need to ride 15-16 hr/wk in order to improve your FTP by 5%. Most people (myself included) could probably achieve the same gains with 1/2 that volume. In fact in many people that volume would be detrimental. I ride the volume to prepare for the long distances. And because I like it. And because it seems to work for me.
2. It's an interesting training question- how much gain can someone get out of training one day per week? If I take a week off training for whatever reason, I lose some degree of fitness. I don't take too big a hit fitness-wise because I have a high cumulative training load. Two weeks off the bike though and the fitness loss is pretty noticeable, I will struggle on rides that would typically be very doable for me. I wonder if OP, not having much cumulative prior training load, and taking six days off the bike per week, is perhaps losing most of his newly-acquired fitness each week before he rides again. I honestly don't know the answer to that, but I'm speculating that it might be pretty hard to make significant gains without more frequent training doses. But again, speculating newby, not sure anyone should pay me any mind.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yeah, I'm a 3-day guy. Three days off the bike and I really notice it. A week off and I couldn't begin to keep up on the group rides. When I taper for an event, I ride almost every day, just less and easier.

LGHT

Thanks all for the help and feedback it's be very helpful.

In the original posts I wasn't training for anything, but then a few riders here posted about the GMR ride a week later and I figured why not try so I started doing at least 2 rides a week and the stationary bike on off days so I'm not just riding 1 day like used to, but more like 3 now. However nothing really seemed to change as far as the muscle pain and soreness. I guess the increase workouts just kept me sore as I progressed.

I know that GMR is way beyond my means and effort and I'm certain I won't make the entire route, but I have some motivation and thought it would be a good challenge to see where I'm at as a new rider. I'm going to log ride #46 on my next ride and I'm sure I'm expecting too much too soon, so even if I only make it to the shack I will see that as a huge accomplishment in itself. If not then I turn back and try again a few weeks later and I just keep trying to I eventually make it. I just want to put in as much miles and incline ahead of time so I know I gave it a solid effort and did as much preparing as possible. If dialing back a little means I'll have a better chance then that's what I'll do. However if pushing harder and ignoring the pain will increase my chances of success than I"m also prepared to do that.

I'm just trying to figure out if there is something else I can do or do "better" and if there are other things or tools that can help me get past the pain and soreness. Like the cadence sensor that was a HUGE help in itself. However if being sore just comes with being a newb than so be it.

jimincalif

LGHT, you'll probably do better on GMR than you expect, but I agree you can back off some. I've done a couple century rides now and intentionally took it easy the week before. I will ride this weekend but then just do a little bit of riding next week before GMR.

Heathpack 

FWIW, when I first started riding (2 yr ago), I was not sore after rides. But I spent a long time riding easy before I attempted to conquer any real hills like GMR. I rode one local hill, 3 miles at 5%, once after I'd been riding 4 months. Then it was maybe another 6 months before I started with hills. I'm not saying what I did is ideal, just that I wasn't sore after my rides at the beginning because I was working on laying down a foundation of 2000ish easy miles.

If you want to ride GMR to the hut, that is about 8.5-9 miles at 5-5.5%, pretty relentlessly up (this first part is the hardest part, it gets easier after that), about 2400 feet elevation gain. If you are 220 pounds with an FTP of 150 and 20 pounds of bike + water + helmet + shoes, etc, you would probably be doing pretty well to get up that hill at 4.5-5 mph; if your FTP is inaccurately low, you could be faster than that. I am not a particularly fast climber and my effort last week was about 7.5-8 mph for the sake of comparison.

You can accomplish a lot in cycling through good pacing, I have personally completed rides that in retrospect should have been somewhat beyond my ability because I paced it well. My advice would be to ride your own ride at your own pace. If you have the ability to display speed, start by riding a 4.5 mph pace. Let the faster people go. You can always pick up the pace later if you're feeling strong. Take the attitude that anything over a 4.5 mph pace is a triumph. If you get to the hut in 2 hours, you are a rock star. Or whatever milestones you decide to set for yourself- just be very realistic and conservation, set yourself up to exceed your own expectation. Anyway, that's the approach I take on stuff like this. "My wife and I just had a baby, I can barely find time to ride, I'm a newby. But I'm going to get to the hut on GMR in 2 hours anyway." That kind of thing.

Also just a few tips. There is no water on GMR unless you make it all the way to the village. If its hot, you should ideally drink 16oz water per hour. If you have two 16 oz bottle, you should be planning on turning around at the 2 hour mark. Maybe you could stretch that to 3 if its cool. Since you sound like a big guy, you probably have a bike frame that is large enough to fit 20 oz bottles, in which case you could maybe stretch things to 3-4 hours with the water. The descent won't take that long, so with 20 oz bottles, just turn plan on turning around at the 3-4 hour mark.

The more well-trained you are, the better your body will be at metabolizing fat, which means you wouldn't need to eat at all on the GMR climb because your body's fat stores are essentially infinite for the purposes of cycling. But since you're not trained up yet, you will need to rely on carbohydrates. Your body's carb stores will be used up in 2-3 hours. So you will need to eat on the bike. All the typical person can absorb is 200-250 cal per hour. You'll hear different opinions as to what you should eat while riding, but sugar is basically the most readily digestible thing and that is what I would recommend you eat at the rate of 200 cal/hr starting 15 minutes into the ride. Personally, I love Cliff Shot Bloks, they are all sugar but more importantly they are easy to eat on the bike because of their size and shape. Some of them have caffeine, which doesn't hurt either. I package of Shot Bloks is 200 cal, so eating one package/hr (or 6 pieces/hr) is perfect. I do lots of intense riding fasted to improve my ability to metabolize fat for my endurance rides. But even I eat carbs continuously on longer event rides. It makes a huge difference.

Another huge difference thing is electrolytes, which help to prevent cramping (as does adequate hydration). Personally I use Skratch, which is a powder that is added to your water bottles. That makes my "water" 80 cal per 20oz bottle, so the calories work out perfectly. My basic pattern is that I have a little timer on my bike computer that goes off every 15 min. that clues me to eat one or two Shot Bloks plus a few sips of water. People will tell you this is too much eating in the bike, over kill. And that is completely correct- for trained people. For untrained people, the carbs right away will help. People will also tell you to eat protein on the bike, because its more slowly digested (will stick with you longer) and you can actually start the recovery process while still riding. The only thing that I would say about this is protein digestion seems to be highly individual. Some people can digest whatever protein they want at any intensity level, some people can only digest certain types of protein, some people can only digest protein when they're not working too hard. I've made myself pretty nauseated with protein on hard rides on a couple of occasions. So my advice would be to avoid protein unless you know from past experience how well it will work for you under the conditions you will be experiencing (ie a hard-for-you ride). Salt (in the form of electrolytes), sugar and water are really the universal things that everyone needs on a challenging ride.

Everyone has different approaches to the climbing itself. Personally I don't like to stop, its hard to get restarted. If you do stop, try to stop on a flatter bit, so that you will be able to get clipped in again when you re-start. If its hot, try to make it to a shady spot if you need to stop, you will enjoy your rest infinitely more. If necessary, ride a little downhill to clip in and then turn around and go back up. Switchbacks are kind of intimidating to see, but generally speaking, they are your friend. The road tends to flatten out a little bit in the curve part of a switchback. If I recall, the second set of switchbacks near the start of the GMR climb is the exception to this, I think those stayed steepish throughout. Be sure to bring spare tubes and CO2 or a good hand pump.

That's all I can think of. I know I'm making this out like GMR is this super-daunting hill. Really its not. 5% grade is pretty doable if you take it slow. Its just long and you're a newby. So it will be hard for you this year. It will be so awesome when this time next year, you do it in half the time.

LGHT

Thanks for the feedback jimi... I also got in touch with Randy at Trials End so I can start the Sunday Bear rides.

LGHT

Wow that's a lot of knowledge to digest and take in. I'm going to print it and start a ride plan. I'll ride this weekend, but will take it really easy and drop a ride next week so I will be Rested, Recovered, and Ready!

Heathpack 

Yes, I should have said that too. Once you are just one week from your event, rest is way better than more training. Just a little light riding to keep your legs loose, but maybe half your normal intensity and a little less volume. Going into your ride well-rested helps tremendously as well.

Knock em dead on GMR.

Heathpack 

Hey @LGHT, how did GMR go today?

LGHT

Better than I thought I would. I did the first section of the climb 8.8 miles with 2330' of incline boulder springs to summit in 1:43:53. My pace average was 5.1 mph so it was nice and slow. I felt good at the shack and took a 5 min break before pushing on. The ride had some reliving downhill portions, but the climbs just kept coming and eventually wore me down. When my gas tank reached about 20% I figured I should turn back as I knew I had to climb back up and over all those downhills I just went down. The total ride distance was 29 miles with 4086' of incline. Another 14 miles and 1500' and I would have made it to the village..

A few things I could have done better was not excel and try and hold the big gear momentum on the rollers. This works on the hills at home, but on big long climbs I'm just burning my fuel too fast. I also need more than 2 bottles of water. It was actually hot and the first portion of the climb was in the sun. I went through my 2 bottles pretty quick and noticed a few other guys had small bottles of water in there jersey that they drank first. I also did 32 miles and 2500' that Wednesday night which was probably too much. I planned to ride the week before and had 5 days rest for that ride, but when the weather cancelled the ride it through my schedule off so I came into the ride with only 3 days rest after a moderate ride and of course my legs were still a little tender from Wednesday.

If I can get my new lower geared cassette in soon I may try again in 2 weeks. I noticed a lot of the riders passing me up had a much lower gearing and were really spinning. I spent most of the day with my HR 148 or lower and my cadence around 50 so I was really grinding too much and my legs just eventually wore out.

It was an amazing day with breath taking views for sure!

Heathpack 

AWESOME job! You really rocked it on that time climbing to the hut. That is an awesome time for where you are right now with your cycling. FYI, 30 miles with 4000 ft of climbing is tough stuff, on par with the climbiness of a "King of the Mountain" type century. So you are well on your way.

Not sure what you mean by "not excel and try to hold the big gear momentum on the rollers"? If by that you are saying that you think you should not come down a roller in big gears, then part way up in your big gears, I would disagree. That's exactly the way you should do it. Use your momentum to make it part way up the next hill. Lots of people don't do this and they are wasting energy IMO. You just need more endurance conditioning so that you can do it right.

Agree that Wed was probably too much. That's just a lesson learned, next time you will know. Important to go into these things rested, but I understand how two weeks of rest did not appeal. And quite honestly with two weeks of rest, you would have started to lose a little conditioning, so your Wed ride wasn't entirely wrong, maybe just a little too much. It would depend on how much overall you're riding right now.

What size water bottles do you have? The standard is 16 oz. You can get bigger bottles that are 20 oz for insulated bottles and I think 24 oz non-insulated. It would drive me crazy to carry a bottle in my jersey pocket.

Awesome pic. I'm glad you had a great experience. One of my training groups is riding up GMR to the ski lifts on Sat, but I think I'm going to ride in the Santa Monica Mts, I am prepping for an event up there.

Post back when you try again in a few weeks, I'd be really interested to know how it goes with: 1 more experience and 2. better gearing.

LGHT

As far as the rollers, your explanation is exactly what I'm referring to and everything I read says to do it that way also, but after coming down in the big gear and trying to use my momentum seemed to really sap my energy and made climbing the rest of the hill harder. I guess I did it right, but like you said I just need to more endurance.

As far as my Wed ride I should have just listened to my instinct and did half the route, but live and learn. I figured 3 days would be enough, but Saturday night I realized 4 would have been better.

I had 2 20oz bottles and thinking back I probably didn't hydrate enough before the ride. After I was done I ran into a rider about to go up at the bike shelter. Although he had 2 full bottles he stopped to get water from the fountain. He said he literally drinks until he can't drink anymore before the ride and even with his 2 24 bottles he has just enough to get to the village.

This was ride #55 and I definitely want to try it again seeing how I was so close to victory. Maybe I'll get in another 5 rides and try to plan it again on ride #60 .

Fly2High

Is there any chance the soreness you are feeling is delayed onset muscle soreness DOMS?
Coping With Sore Muscles After Physical Activity

Frank

LGHT

Yeah that's exactly it. I didn't realize there was a term for it. I knew from my first ride of 3 miles I would be sore, but I didn't realize that I would still be sore 2 months later after just about every ride. However as I ride each time I try to ride farther, harder, and faster. I probably pushed well beyond what I should have early on and only riding once a week didn't help much either. Now I try and ride at least twice a week, but I still enjoy riding farther, harder and faster. As a result I just have a good recovery routine on how to help with the soreness as the article mentioned. Plus I only have 12 days and still need 2800 meters to complete the 16 day strava challenge! Legs don't fail me now!