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    Senior Member tasr's Avatar
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    Some advice on my swim time please

    I wanted to get a base time for a 800 meters swim (.5 mile). I clocked it at 12:26 minutes. I continued for another 800 meters to finish my workout. This is also my 1st mile swim in over 18 years. I felt strong and in good shape for the swim.

    I am real pleased with this time for only returning to swimming less than three weeks ago. I was off yesterday and decided to make it a good tri work out day at the Y. I swim in a 25 meter pool so for me I do 16 laps to get 800 meters. I do not push off the wall when I do my turns but only to get my body in the horizontal position then I kick hard.

    My question, is 800 meters in 12:26 minutes good time? Is this at all competitive time for my age group of male 45 yrs old? If not, is it something to work off of?

    After the swim I got on to the bike for 1:20 hr for some intervals training at 145-178 HR. Then for a quick transition to a 2.5 mile run. It was a good workout.

    Thanks for any input.
    James

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    When I wanted to figure out how my times were, I simply looked at the results for my age group from previous years. Most race websites have access to old stats. And I also found a couple of other races with the same or similar distances and looked at them too. It also provided a really good idea of what to expect on race day and in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tasr View Post
    I wanted to get a base time for a 800 meters swim (.5 mile). I clocked it at 12:26 minutes. I continued for another 800 meters to finish my workout. This is also my 1st mile swim in over 18 years. I felt strong and in good shape for the swim.

    I am real pleased with this time for only returning to swimming less than three weeks ago. I was off yesterday and decided to make it a good tri work out day at the Y. I swim in a 25 meter pool so for me I do 16 laps to get 800 meters. I do not push off the wall when I do my turns but only to get my body in the horizontal position then I kick hard.

    My question, is 800 meters in 12:26 minutes good time? Is this at all competitive time for my age group of male 45 yrs old? If not, is it something to work off of?

    After the swim I got on to the bike for 1:20 hr for some intervals training at 145-178 HR. Then for a quick transition to a 2.5 mile run. It was a good workout.

    Thanks for any input.


    I just started working out for my first Tri about a month ago and its my first time working out this hard in about 10 years. I'm about 17 years younger than you and I'm not even sure I can FINISH 1/2 mile yet! So I'd say yeah thats a good time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tasr View Post
    I wanted to get a base time for a 800 meters swim (.5 mile). I clocked it at 12:26 minutes. I continued for another 800 meters to finish my workout. This is also my 1st mile swim in over 18 years. I felt strong and in good shape for the swim.

    I am real pleased with this time for only returning to swimming less than three weeks ago. I was off yesterday and decided to make it a good tri work out day at the Y. I swim in a 25 meter pool so for me I do 16 laps to get 800 meters. I do not push off the wall when I do my turns but only to get my body in the horizontal position then I kick hard.

    My question, is 800 meters in 12:26 minutes good time? Is this at all competitive time for my age group of male 45 yrs old? If not, is it something to work off of?

    After the swim I got on to the bike for 1:20 hr for some intervals training at 145-178 HR. Then for a quick transition to a 2.5 mile run. It was a good workout.

    Thanks for any input.
    Depends on your definition of competitive. In my last race the third place guy in 45-49 did:

    800yd - 10:41
    T1 - 1:00
    15 mile bike - 37:01
    T2 - 1:30
    5K - 19:27

    Now you'd probably be competitive with me, but I 'm a middle of the packer. Call me weak but I have trouble with holding 24 mph and change on a hilly course, to say nothing of the sub 7 minute miles on the 5K.

  5. #5
    Senior Member tasr's Avatar
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    joolied, I thought about that. The Triathlonís Iím doing have past stats posted so Iíve looked them up. Iím happy with my current time. I also found other stats for the same distances. It seems 10-12 min for .5 mile swim is a pretty competitive time over all. Some results even had times in the 9ís.


    Quote Originally Posted by mgbguy View Post
    Depends on your definition of competitive.
    This was pretty vague. I guess I wanted an idea what was out there in times. I would consider person in the 10ís and under to be more elite. After all itís been 18 years of not swimming for me and to do a 12:26 for a 800 meter swim seems good. I wasnít going super hard and I didnít do hard pushes off from the wall. I did not want to get overly tight and I am pretty sure I could get this time down. It was in a pool after all and to compare pool swim to a open water swim is like apples to oranges. All the Triathlons I will be doing will be open water.

    Iím a very strong cyclist so I should fair well in the bike. My run today was just devastating. I did a 5K 25:50 8:20 min miles, not good. This is killing me from someone could do 6 min mile at this distance.

    Is anybody here timing themselves in a 25 meter pool at distances of 800 meter and then compared to an 800 meters open water swim they did?
    Last edited by tasr; 02-06-08 at 02:27 PM.
    James

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    Just shy of 400W ranger5oh's Avatar
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    Hey.. why are you timing 800m? What distance race are you doing.. 800m swim? If you can hold 1:30min per 100m, that is a good time. You will be in the back of the front of the pack.. or the front of the middle of the pack... whatever. 1:20/100 or less and you will be one of the first out of the water. What I would do though is check the race results for the particular race you are going to do. The problem is, some of them put the timing mat after a breif run... so you cant always judge from this... but it will get you close.

    Open water is difficult to judge. It slows you down if its choppy, but... if you can wear a wetsuit that typically makes up for the difference. If you have never swam in OW before, its different... i reccommend trying to get in at least one OWS before you tri... just so the awkwardness is over. It will help you out worlds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tasr View Post
    I swim in a 25 meter pool so for me I do 16 laps to get 800 meters.
    So, what fuzzy math are you doing? 1 lap = 1 length of the pool. 25 meters * 16laps = 400M NOT 800M. Are you under the misconception that a lap is equal to 2 lengths of the pool or do you swim in a 50M pool where 16 laps would be 800M?

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    That's a middle of the pack pace. If I did a tri right now and kept that up for a full mile, I would finish in the middle.

    If you do that training regularly of doing all three legs, you won't get improvment as fast as something more structred.
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

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    short answer: yes, i think thats a good time... a great time actually. dead turns kill me.

    Long answer:

    i'd guess you have a history of swimming pretty well if youre pulling that type of time with a couple of weeks training and dead turns.
    I'll have a guess at what i think you want to know, i.e., is it good compared to the other legs of your race? this is the only question that needs addressing from my point of view, because once you answer it, you can start to allocate training time according to weakness and strength.
    for (an extreme) example, if you were a semi competitive swimmer in high school and then became a duathlete and are now, 17 years later, comfortable sitting on 40km/h for 2 hours on the bike followed by an hour running at 3:30/km then your swim is not "good" and will be letting your bike/run combo down on race day... so train it a lot.
    BUT if you struggle to ride for more than an hour full stop and like to take a walk every 3 or 4 minutes when you go out for a jog, then your swim is VERY good and you dont need to train it at all, go and ride and run as much as you can handle, the swim is taking care of itself.
    mgbguy showing a full split of a competitive racer is a good start... if it were me, i'd make sure that this 3rd placegetter is a well balanced athlete, ie he has no glaring weakness and strength, so i'd make my sample size bigger than one. looking through, or POURING over results can be helpful, but whatever happens, dont be intimidated. triathlon courses are very, very, very often short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
    So, what fuzzy math are you doing? 1 lap = 1 length of the pool. 25 meters * 16laps = 400M NOT 800M. Are you under the misconception that a lap is equal to 2 lengths of the pool or do you swim in a 50M pool where 16 laps would be 800M?
    One length = swim from one end to the other.

    One lap = swim down to one end and then back.

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    No one carries the DogBoy
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    My observation is that open water races are not comparable to pool times. Distances are not accurate, there are waves, wind, current, wet-suits and drafting. At the end of the day, you need to compare yourself to the competition. I've done tris with 1500 meter swims that I finished in 25 minutes, and some that I finished in 34 minutes with the same perceived effort, and the same general placing relative to my age group. Focus on your training, use your 100m time as a baseline for training, and then swim well at the event. Just don't compare the pool with open water.

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    Body by Guinness cjbruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
    So, what fuzzy math are you doing? 1 lap = 1 length of the pool. 25 meters * 16laps = 400M NOT 800M. Are you under the misconception that a lap is equal to 2 lengths of the pool or do you swim in a 50M pool where 16 laps would be 800M?
    I guess I'm under the same "misconception". Isn't a lap when you return to the starting point? Otherwise, my Lap Counter would increment 2 instead of one every time I touched it.

    Last edited by cjbruin; 03-04-08 at 10:35 AM.
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    Unless I have this totally screwed up, one length is 25 meters in the pool at the Y. Accoring to the charts along the wall: 16 lenghts = 8 laps = .25 mile.

    16 lengths x 25 meters = 400 meters.

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    A lap is one length of a pool guys.

    Some confusion may arise in that an Olympic length pool is 50M. Therefore, 1 lap in an Olympic length pool is 50M. 1 lap in other 'standard' pools may be 25M or 25 yards (depends on the pool). So, some people (incorrectly) may term two lengths of a standard pool to be 1 lap (= 1 lap in an Olympic length pool).

    It is best to just talk about distances rather than laps anyway. A typical work out when I swam in high school was anywhere from 4000-7000 yards made up of various sets. These days, I don't find myself swimming more than 3000 during a workout. By referring to yardage (or meters) you won't get screwed up and get mired in "HOW MANY LAPS, HOW MUCH IS A LAP, etc"

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    Body by Guinness cjbruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
    A lap is one length of a pool guys.
    Incorrect.

    http://www.active.com/story.cfm?CHEC...&STORY_ID=6430

    http://www.staps.uhp-nancy.fr/foad_n.../swimterms.htm

    The only reference I could find that sort of agreed with you is http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/D...ainbow&Lang=en and even it includes the definition for two lengths being a lap.
    Last edited by cjbruin; 03-04-08 at 03:51 PM.
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    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
    A lap is one length of a pool guys.

    Some confusion may arise in that an Olympic length pool is 50M. Therefore, 1 lap in an Olympic length pool is 50M. 1 lap in other 'standard' pools may be 25M or 25 yards (depends on the pool). So, some people (incorrectly) may term two lengths of a standard pool to be 1 lap (= 1 lap in an Olympic length pool).

    It is best to just talk about distances rather than laps anyway. A typical work out when I swam in high school was anywhere from 4000-7000 yards made up of various sets. These days, I don't find myself swimming more than 3000 during a workout. By referring to yardage (or meters) you won't get screwed up and get mired in "HOW MANY LAPS, HOW MUCH IS A LAP, etc"
    If a "real" swimmer yells in a forest, does anyone care?

    1 lap = out and back, to 99% of the world who cares.

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    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Oh, and to the OP, as you have found out, it doesn't matter how many years you haven't been swimming, you are still going to fly past most of older folks who took up swimming in our 30/40s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bvfrompc View Post
    If a "real" swimmer yells in a forest, does anyone care?

    1 lap = out and back, to 99% of the world who cares.
    Yeah, the people who didn't swim competitively. Anyone who has swam on a team knows a lap is one length.

    Personally, I swam in high school and college. NEVER in my time swimming did a coach or teammate call a lap "there and back."

    The USA Swimming site indicates a lap is one length and also accounts that "sometimes" it is used to refer to "there and back." That 'sometimes' is accounting for situations like this where people who are ignorant about the sport term it incorrectly. Usually, the folks that look like they are drowning when doing a swim workout.

    Run a search "what is one lap in a pool."

    If you speak in yards, you will be better off anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbruin View Post
    Incorrect.

    http://www.active.com/story.cfm?CHEC...&STORY_ID=6430

    http://www.staps.uhp-nancy.fr/foad_n.../swimterms.htm

    The only reference I could find that sort of agreed with you is http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/D...ainbow&Lang=en and even it includes the definition for two lengths being a lap.
    Sorry. Try your Google search again chief.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

    I GUARANTEE that all you folks claiming a lap is two lengths have not swam competitively. Admit it.

    When it comes down to it, it is semantics. However, those who have been involved in the "swimming world" competition, teams, etc, term it 1 lap per length.

    Many swim sets include 75's (75 yards). It is never termed 1.5 laps for that, it is 3 laps.

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    Senior Member bvfrompc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
    I GUARANTEE that all you folks claiming a lap is two lengths have not swam competitively. Admit it.
    Yep, thats me and the other 99.9%of the world who still believe that a lap is out and back.

    Hey, whats that sound in the forest? Is that "real" swimmer still yelling?

    Seems like you have some internal issues regarding your swimming background, are you ashamed of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bvfrompc View Post
    Yep, thats me and the other 99.9%of the world who still believe that a lap is out and back.

    Hey, whats that sound in the forest? Is that "real" swimmer still yelling?

    Seems like you have some internal issues regarding your swimming background, are you ashamed of it?
    How about a link to the OLYMPIC website for Beijing '08 http://en.beijing2008.cn/71/26/article212012671.shtml

    1 lap = 1 length

  22. #22
    Body by Guinness cjbruin's Avatar
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    ohsmily, I think I might have found your yearbook picture...
    [IMG]http://igobychad.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/******bag-32667.jpg[/IMG]

    Good for you, you were a competitive swimmer and you know the "real" term unlike most people who just use common sense. It seems that most people knew what the OP was talking about and it wasn't an issue before you posted your arrogant "fuzzy math/misconception" comment.

    Now back to the thread...

    By the way, tasr. I would say that your time for 800m is pretty good. If you're trying to podium in a sprint tri, you may need to get a little faster but if you can turn in a good bike and run, you have a shot.
    Last edited by cjbruin; 03-05-08 at 04:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbruin View Post
    ohsmily, I think I might have found your yearbook picture...


    Good for you, you were a competitive swimmer and you know the "real" term unlike most people who just use common sense. It seems that most people knew what the OP was talking about and it wasn't an issue before you posted your arrogant "fuzzy math/misconception" comment.
    You are like a child. Grow up. Don't be bitter about your ignorance. Live and learn.

  24. #24
    Body by Guinness cjbruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
    You are like a child. Grow up. Don't be bitter about your ignorance. Live and learn.
    Pretty funny statement from you.

    Just out of curiosity , I looked at your previous posts and it seems that a good percentage of them include you correcting and/or belittling someone or you calling them a jerk.

    You are quite the angry little man, aren't you? It might help if you stopped taking yourself so seriously. This tri forum is typically pretty supportive, it might not be your cup of tea.
    Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbruin View Post
    Pretty funny statement from you.

    Just out of curiosity , I looked at your previous posts and it seems that a good percentage of them include you correcting and/or belittling someone or you calling them a jerk.

    You are quite the angry little man, aren't you? It might help if you stopped taking yourself so seriously. This tri forum is typically pretty supportive, it might not be your cup of tea.
    Who is belittling whom?

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