adamtki

Hi,

I've been thinking about doing a tri some time next year. It seems fun and a great way to feel good about achieving something. But I can't swim! And I can't stand cold water. I'm 40 and I took my first swim lesson a month ago. Now I can swim about 20 yards at the most before needing to stand up in the pool! The pool I swim in is maintained at 81 degress but it always feel like it's 65 to me when I first jump in. I live in the Seattle area, so I can't imagine any tris around here with water that's anywhere near that warm.

How many of you learned to swim late in life and managed to finish a tri? Are there bouys or something you can hold onto if you get really tired and need to stop and rest during the swim? I guess I could always just backfloat if I'm too tired.

Do the wet suits make a cold lake feel like it's 81 degrees?

I'd really like to figure out this swim part. I can do the biking and running ok for a guy who has a weakened leg from years of back problems.

adamtki

I just noticed the sticky thread for new swimmers!

Fred Matthews

There is a lot of good info on here about swimming, just search around and you'll be loaded down with reading.

The pool water will feel just fine to you once you get moving. If you are only swimming a short distance then you are never gettting warmed up and therefore the water continues to feel cold. Read a bunch of the other threads and then ask some questions based on what you have read and where you are in your training. You have a lot of time to get ready and if you learn a couple of basic techniques you'll be swimming a mile+ in no-time.

Wet suits are a great help in cooler water. I swam in 52° water this March with a sleeveless suit and it wasn't tooooo bad. The suit also provides some much needed bouyancy that could be very important to a less confident swimmer. And yes you can roll over and bacstroke. Lots of peole do it and there is no shame in it.

You might want to look for some indoor tri's first. They are pool swims and that could help boost your confidence in the water. See if your gym has a masters class. Many are offered for a small fee (mine is free with gym membership). Talk to the coaches and other swimmers. Get a few tips and some drills to work on. Don't try to do everything at once. Work on one drill at a time and master it then move on. Trying to think about arm position, body rotation, looking down, breathing styles, what to do with your feet, etc. can be overwhelming so take it slow - you have time.

Good luck and check back with updates. Everyone here is more than willing to help.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Triathlon.

adamtki

how much difference does tight swim suits make? I'm currently practicing with baggy swim trunks? For instance, my first goal is to swim 50 meters in 1 minute. If I had tight swim trunks/tri shorts/wet suit, how much faster would that be?

C Law

2 seconds maybe.

I guess it depends on how baggy you trunks are.

Anyway, get some jammers and be done with it.

Fred Matthews

At this stage in the game it doesn't really matter. You need to concentrate on learning to swim and the other stuff will come later.

I didn't get a pair of tri shorts until this year - my second season. I trained most of last year in a regular pair of swim trunks then got a pair of long speedo's. Did I notice a difference? Not really. My swim stroke has changed a lot from when I started and I really atribute the increased speed and decreased time to better technique.

So, for now I would focus on learning some drills and getting your endourance up.

adamtki

2 seconds? Hmm, then I can't blame my turtle swim speed on my trunks!

If I just do kicking with a kick board and with a push off the wall at the start, what's a good time to have for 25 yards? A good time being someone who finishes in the top 10% of the swim portion of a triathlon?

Barchettaman

Hi Adam,
A 25m time for kicking with a board is pretty irrelevant really.
The top 10% of a triathlon open water field will be finishing in 17-20 minutes, but don't let that freak you out.
You need to get some technique, sir. Have a chat at your local pool about lessons for adults. Don't worry about floundering around - it just means that your learning curve will be steeper than others!
Best of luck.

adamtki

Thanks. I did take a beginner's lesson and we learned the basics of kicking, arm stroke, and breathing. I asked about the kicking since I wanted to make sure I was kicking correctly. Of course, I concentrate on the other parts one at a time as well, but kicking was something i could measure since I can't quite make it across the pool yet.

Fred Matthews

Now you also need to keep in mind that many triathletes don't kick at all...their legs just follow along for the ride. Once I get into my rhythm I very rarely kick. Maybe to get around someone or turning at the bouy but other than that - no kicking. You want your legs to be as rested as possible when you hit the bike.

edbikebabe

Find a tri with a pool swim. A few less variables to worry about....

adamtki

I didn't think freestyle kicking could tire your legs enough to affect your cycling. I guess I'd have to experience it first hand to see how much of a difference it makes.

adamtki

That would be perfect, but I can't seem to find any here in the Seattle area.

Fred Matthews

Sometimes those indoor tri's aren't sanctioned events but rather just internal gym events so they aren't listed on sites like www.trifind.com . You might want to get in touch with some local triathlon clubs and find out what events they are aware of. Or just go ahead and join one, the information alone would be a great help in getting you started.

I didn't think much about kicking when I did my first triathlon in 2008 - an Olymic distance. I just figured I would swim it like I always swam - lots of arms and legs. But I got tired a lot and flipped over and backstroked a bunch. By the time I was 1/4 through the bike I was toast. This year I barely kicked at all and I was feeling great when I hit T1. I then proceeded to knock 18 minutes off my bike time and 10 minutes off my run time. Add that on top of the 1:30 I shaved off the swim in choppier waters than the year before.

All that to say that I think you might want to give swiming without kicking a try. See if your pool has swim bouys, or pull bouys or whatever they are called, that you can use. They are figure 8 shaped foam pads that you place between your legs. It helps you work on your body roll and helps to get your legs higher in the water among other things.

Without trying to throw too much at you at one time here is a question for you. How are you breathing? Every stroke, every stroke-and-a-half? Reason I ask is that I was having the same type issue that you are having at the beginning of my training for this season. I was breathing iradically and my muscles weren't getting the oxygen they needed - therefore I was getting tired very quickly, stopping after every 100-200 yards. I asked the masters coach to look at my stroke and he gave me a drill to get me breathing every stroke-and-a-half (1-2-3-breath right / 1-2-3-breath left - bilateral breathing).

DRILL: Using fins roll to your right side with right arm out. Kick six times. Roll into a bilateral breathing pattern. As you come up to breath (now on the left side) stay on your side with left arm out and kick six times. Then roll into bilateral breathing pattern and repeat. After a few hundred yards I was very comfortable with the pattern so much that I just started swimming without the fins. BUT...

I still wasn't getting enough air and so now I breathe every stroke. Every time my left arm goes forward, I breathe. That first day that I switched I swam 2500 yards non-stop and I haven't had an issue since.

SO figure out your breathing and then we'll tackle what comes next.

P.S. Anyone with more experience than me feel free to chime in...I am no expert by any means. Just trying to be helpful.

adamtki

I just got tri shorts... and the difference is huge! I can easily swim halfway across on the first breath now. Definitely more than 2s. My old shorts were baggy and the waist was 2 inches too big (i couldn't tie it more than that).

adamtki

When you backstroke, how much of a problem is with water getting in your nose?

Ahh, is that why they're shaped like that? I'll definitly try that.

I breathe (or try to breathe) every 3 strokes. the problem I have is that every time I breathe, I expend too much energy trying to get the breath. My head is too high for too long. After the breath, it feels like my body sunk 1 feet below the water so I have to swim my way back to the surface.

I'll definitely try that.

If I can keep my head from getting submerged so much after the breath, I'll try breathing every stroke.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Fred Matthews

When you backstroke, how much of a problem with water getting in your nose?

This shouldn't be an issue since your face should be above the water level.

Ahh, is that why they're shaped like that? I'll definitly try that.

This is a great swim tool and will help you get a good feel for swimming downhill rather than uphill which is what it sounds like you are doing. You shouldn't be kicking much at all with these between your legs. Take it slow and get a feel for how your body should roll in the water. I am nearly vertical and fully extended with each stroke.

I breathe (or try to breathe) every 3 strokes. the problem I have is that every time I breathe, I expend too much energy trying to get the breath. My head is too high for too long. After the breath, it feels like my body sunk 1 feet below the water so I have to swim my way back to the surface.

Are you breathing to the side or lifting your head straight up? The head should really just barely come out of the water. When your face is in the water you should be looking down not forward. Then when you breathe your head should just rotate to the side - not lift out. I begin to exhale as I am starting my head turn therefore I am ready to breathe when my mouth is out of the water. This took me a little getting used to but once I got a feel for it...it felt great.

Your legs are likely going down with each breath and that is what they call swimming uphill. You are creating drag and besides slowing you down it is tiring you out. The drills that I suggested and any others that you can find will greatly help you fix your form and ease your motion in the water. Your legs should be right at the water level even if they are just along for the ride.

I'll definitely try that.

This is really a good drill and has become one of my favorites. You'll get a great sense of how to roll in the water and how to breathe consistently. Once you get a good feel for the drill change it up a little...kick 4 times or 2 times. But do it for a few hundred yards at minimum and do it a little every time you go swim. Take this slowly and really concentrate on form and on breathing. Remember you should be flowing through the water not fighting through it

NOTE: part of getting better at swimming is doing different drills. If you just get in there are swim laps you'll get bored.

Another good program to utilize is the "Zero to 1650". I used this at the beginning of my training this year and it was a great help in getting me comfortable in the water and giving me a goal for each swim. The website is: https://ruthkazez.com/ZeroTo1mile.html

Later.

Loree

I'd join a masters team now -- that way you'll have plenty of time to improve your swimming. Also, consider getting a pair of fins (swimmers fins). They will help you with not only your body position, but your breathing.

Check the USMS site for programs near you

maful

I start out breathing every three strokes with a good kick to get me away from the pack. After a while I switch to every other stroke. I keep a good steady kick. If kicking is really that bad start adding some kick into your workout. My coach has us doing tons of kick. Our most common kick workout is 5x100 kick on 2:00. 2:00 might be a little to fast for you but try to make it so that when you finish you have very little rest, and you are pretty much sprinting on the kick. The best way to start going faster is to make sure you are always looking straight down. This helps keep your legs straight and it makes you more hydrodynamic. Also, remember that all swimming should be done on your side, not on your stomach. Just practice rolling to each side as mentioned above.

adamtki

2:00 per 100 yds? I must be doing something wrong. I can only manage 1:00 at my fastest for *25* yards with a kickboard.

I should probably also learn the backstroke and breaststroke so that I can be comfortable with them when I need a break. Which do you think is better to turn to when you're exhausted but still want to keep moving during the race?

Fred Matthews

1:00 for 25 yds...you must be doing something wrong. I would take all the advice that you have been getting and put it aside for a bit except for one thing...find a Masters class near you and get the coach to watch you and give you some tips, drills and guideance.

There is only so much we can do on-line to help you and it sounds like you need someone to watch you swim and see what you are doing wrong.

I just went to www.usms.org and found this listing in your area. I would check into them and then go from there.

Redmond Pacific Northwest LMSC Redmond 17535 NE 104TH Redmond, Washington Lap Swim / Workout Times: Lap swim M-F 6-7:30am, 8-9pm Contacts: (206)296-2961
Keep us up to date on your progress.

Good luck.

Fred Matthews

One more thing, make sure that when you do talk to a coach that you let them know you are training for "triathlon". Regular Masters swimming is geared towards swim meets not triathlon and so some of the workouts may need to be adjusted to be geared for your goal.

adamtki

Thanks for the info. I already have an excellent facility for practicing and taking classes. I'll have to ask the swim instructor in my class that i'm currently in what I'm doing wrong.

From searching the Internet though, I suspect I have runner's kick (I'm mainly a runner). I don't know about others, but I can't point my feet straight down. If I sit on my heals (like in a child's sitting position), there's about 1cm of gap between the floor and the front part of my ankle. It's even bigger on my other foot.

gclark

check out this web site.. tcsd.org.lots of good info and very helpful links and free access to coaches,beginner to ironman...i joined the club and went from total couch potato to sprit tri in two months. it was tough.i did the back stroke on the swim! just keep swimming it will come,took me about 3 months of drinking pool water before i could freestyle.i am 46. didnt know how to swim.it is now fun for me and i dont drink much pool water now.
Yes a tri specific wet suit does make it easier to float! you still need all of the proper stroke that you learned in the pool though.Yes it does keep you warmHighly recomend for beginners for open water swimming.
Remember have fun! It will come.

Sparky2

I was at the same point as you when I started a Master's program in May 2009 - including the issue with the runner's kick. Do yourself a BIG favor and buy yourself a pair of Zoomers. Focus on kick drills and you will get better - albeit slowly.

I did an Olympic this past weekend in the Pacific and swam freestyle continuously for the entire 1500 meters - with plenty of fuel in the tank at the end. BTW, I am 60+ so age should not be an issue.