$3000 +/- where to go??
I have been doing tri's on a $400 road bike for three years, and after some local race success decide to upgrade - so I decided to invest in a new tri bike -should be fun right? It might be if LBS's where stocked like car dealers - i.e. they stuff on the show room floor to actually touch - otherwise you are buying from a catalog. Anyway, enough whining - I am buying a bike -superstoked. I have a preference for one particular LBS, they carry C-Dale and Orbea. So narrows the selection = phew, coz there are tons of bike at this price range!!
The LBS has an 08 C-Dale Slice 3 in stock (Frameset only) for $2000: http://www.cannondale.com/bra/eng/Pr...-8RM3D-Slice-3
Alternate is the Orbea Odu @ 3000: http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?la...xid=66&pid=149
I am getting a break on the MSRP! Both bikes are basically full ultegra - the SLICE has carbon aero bars and (I think??) a better crank set. The difference is obviously the framset/full bike which is standard with reynolds strikes. So in my mind - the choice is down to fit and wheels.
With ordering from a catalog, I cant get fit - but based on my upgrade from an entry level road bike - both are going to be huge improvement and will work for me. So equal there.
It comes down to wheels.
Do I get the Orbea with Reynolds 66mm (http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?la...xid=66&pid=149)
Or marry the SLICE frameset with a pair of SRAM or even Planet X wheels? http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Planet-X-Pr...item19b52d19ac
This begs the question, that is perhaps better placed in another forum - whats with Planet X?? For a technically challenged bike rider - they look like the shisnet - but with the cheap price, where do they scimp?
So if it was you - would you buy the Orbea, stock standard - or go with the C-Dale and choose a slightly deeper wheelset - or would you prefer a Felt B12 or Fuji D6?
I wish it was still as simple as putting a clothes peg in my spokes!
First off, I'd look in to fit a little bit more. Bikes are a lot of money and its worth getting one that you love for every reason.
Bret, I have a history around this forum of saying something along the lines of, "If you are going to buy a bike, why not buy one that is aerodynamic". There is no line of what is aerodynamic, but there are bikes that follow principles which work to reduce the amount of time it takes you to bike a course.
The Orbea just doesn't follow those principles. I attached some data from Cervelo(it's titled Orbea Ordu, but it's what is now the Ora), and though I would take the P2 and P3c data with a grain of salt, i don't think they skewed the data to make the Orbea 100-150 grams higher in drag.
I can't tell you how the slice compares but it a recent test it fell a watt or two short of the new Plasma 2, so not bad.
I have a Felt B2 which I like. It has good geometry, is aero enough, and came at a great price. However, if the bike store I bught from had Cannondale I would have given them a good hard look.
Thanks for the reply Tri-Guy. Given me even more to think about!! I cant believe that a company like Orbea would not do the R&D to release a bike that is equivalent to the others brands - at the same price point. I think it comes down to personal fit on the bike, as the rider probably adds the most amount of drag to a setup? I assume this. Also the wheelsets I was thinking about definately come into play.
What I cant believe is that there is not some kind of standardized testing that is done. If you want to buy a car you can get the EPA estimated MPG - why can you not get the equivalent for a bike?? Is there not an objective review panel outthere? I have search, but could not find anything or any use - unless its a claim by one brand, "that THEY have the fastest bike in the world" proven by the fastest bike split @ Kona. I take a statement like that with a HUGE grain of salt - coz its logical to think that @ that level the technology has evened itself out and it come down to rider and the day - seriously!!
Bret, best of luck with your prospective purchase.
Good that you have a local LBS that you are happy with and looking to support.
A couple of things - if it's a 2008 C/dale you are looking at then Haggle Hard. Why didn't they get rid of it last season? It's 2 years old and not an attractive propostion in many ways.... plus you will likey take a depreciation hit on it when you resell, as it will be that bit older.
Don't get hung up on Ultegra components. You won't go any faster than if you were using 105.
Fit is absolutely crucial. Does your LBS have an experienced tri-bike fitter?
As far as wheelsets go, don't get too hung up on what comes as standard. A wheelcover for your current training wheel will do 99% of what a top of the line Zipp will do, and be truable (and almost certainly more durable). Get a decent second-hand front wheel and you'll be competitve for minimum outlay. A guy on the 'build a budget bike' thread picked up a Zipp 404 for $50, for example.
Bottom line is you can buy a bit of speed on the bike, but there is much more speed to be gained more easily (and cheaper!) on the other 2 legs of a tri.
Barchettaman, thanks for the post. I agree with all you have to say, expect for the amount of bling I can get for the $$ I can afford. There has to be something said for having the money available to get a really sweet ride - I dont think this will ever happen in my life again - and it feels awesome to be able to look at the sites I did as a teenager and know I can get those bikes I used to "dream" about in class!! But I also know that even at the price range i am looking at, I have passed the point of diminising returns with respect to $$ against what I am getting in benefit. So, I am justifying the carbon frame and wheels to satisfying the craving that we all had as a teenager - the dream to get on ONE OF THOSE bikes! Well to me a $3000 bike is just that - others outthere will laugh at that - to them I can only say that I enjoyed passing you on your tricked out Carban/titanium bike last season
I also understand that I can really buy speed. I work very hard on swim and run workouts, but think that the tri bike will allow me to maximize that work as it should get me off the bike fresher and allow me to attack the run harder.
So, I had kinda made uo my mind on the Orbea -- then the TRIGUY exposed the slightly less than perfect frame, and I did some reading - -it seems that I might be sacrificing about 5-10 watts on that bike!! Anybody out there have the Orbea and noticed anything??
go with felt b16 and reynolds striks i have the b16 right now it is wicked fast an im going to throw the wheels on as soon as they arrive in the shop. best 3k i have ever spend
those are some interesting numbers, I dont really know why cervelo always has drag studies saying their bikes are the bomb (I have a P2 full carbon so no hate towards Cervelo ok : / ... I just find interesting Crowie rides an Orbea, Lieto a Trek, Terenzo a DA, Boom Boom Reed a Fuji, and so on, the only person I can recall dominating Iron and half Iron distance on a Cervelo is Chrissie W and now days she rides a C-dale.....
My opinion is you should test ride the bikes and whatever feels better, go with it.... thats why I have a P2 because it felt better than a Felt or TREK.... and if you are getting some carbon wheels in the packaged you should be more than set.
of course these are pro triathletes we are talking about, they are generally paid lower than most other sports, any bike company that is willing to pay them more will probably get the deal. and right now cervelo is busy sponsoring their pro tour team so bye bye triathlete budget.
Originally Posted by Rosalestri
I think you are on the right track to a good bike, the orbea seems like a better deal than the c'dale but you should try riding different setups and then choose what feels best.
I guess I don't know what you mean. That set of data is the only data I've seen from Cervelo. I don't know what happened but I also have a similar set with Trek beating the P2 at a fair amount of data points. I do think that Cervelo has always encouraged customers to consider aerodynamics, prior to about 2006 no one I can think of made a good steep geometry and aerodynamic time trial bike.
Originally Posted by Rosalestri
There is also the fact that this data was released during the aero bike proliferation which happened around 2008 with the release of the Felt DA, Specialized Transition, Cannondale Slice and Jamis Xenith. From 2006 and earlier Cervelo and Trek, I believe, were the only companies really developing bikes in the tunnel(and Walser I guess). It's funny, because I think with the right attention to detail to what the companies who test in the tunnel do, I think a company could make a fast aerodynamic bike.
Since the original boom of tunnel development, things have gotten even crazier. Giant, Specialized, Cervelo and Trek have taken things to the next level it seems.
Cervelo has a history of saying, we're happy to finish second in everyone elses aero tests, which is how it has played out in most other people's tests. We may never see independent data on bikes. I think that as consumers we can be realistic about the fact that some things make sense and some things don't. Whether or not that has more of an effect than our feeling of truly enjoying the bike, I don't know. Makes me think of the Trek narrow bike project where Lance was faster with a low q factor, but he didn't feel faster so they scrapped it.
Possibly redundant advice but - make sure you like what you buy ( if you haven't bought already). Nothing worse than spending the big $$ on someone elses dream and then riding the next couple of years regretting it. Even if its not perfect, you'll learn a lot about what you really need in the process.
FIT! FIT! FIT!
Fit is everything. The frame sizes are all virtual nowadays. Actual fit varies greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. You may end up buying a wrong size frame. And even if you get the right size you will almost certainly ride it in less than ideal fit: reach too long or too short, wrong seat position, etc...
If you are serious about triathlons:
Do a pre-sale fit on a fit bike. Have them write down the numbers for you and have them recommend you a frame geometry that fits you best.
Buy a bike.
Have the shop transfer your fit geometry onto the real bike. Make sure the stem is around the middle of the stack so you can raise and lower.
Go out and ride and tweak the fit on the road. Most often minor adjustments are needed to the stack height, aerobar angle, and the saddle angle. (Pad placement, reach, and seat height are going to be spot on if the fitter was any good.)
Originally Posted by sirious94
Agree that there don't seem to be many high-flyers on Cervelo and also that this is probably due to focusing their promo budget on their road team. However, at the recent Australian Ironman in Port Macquarie, Partrick Vernay won on a P4 and there were MANY, MANY Cervelos in the field. My wife commented at one point: " its like a Cervelo fest here. " Still the pre-eminent choice from the evidence at that race.