Off-Season Training Progress
#1
Body by Guinness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 3,326
Bikes: Specialized Allez Pro; Cervelo P2 SL; Tsunami (Converted to Fixed Gear)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Off-Season Training Progress
2011 is almost here and many of us have an idea of what our race calendars will look like. For those of us in the Northern Hemisphere, it's all about building your base and trying to keep the weight off. It would be great if we could all motivate each other a little, I'll start.
Races:
A-Race = IM Switzerland, July 10th. May add an Olympic and a Sprint in the Spring/Summer. Hoping for that elusive Kona Lottery spot again this year, if it doesn't happen, I may throw an end-of-season marathon in the mix (maybe Sacramento...supposed to be a fast course).
Current Training:
- Started on Mon 11/29 after taking it easy for one month after the Athens Marathon (ouch...really tough course).
- 32 weeks from my IM which gives me a 16 week base phase, a 13 week race phase, and a 3 week taper.
- Came up with an idea to run every day in December (actually started on 11/29)...Today will be my 30th day in a row.
- My running schedule is 3 Short, 2 Medium, 1 Long, 1 T-Run where the Medium Runs are twice as long as the Short and the Long Runs are 3X as long as the Short. T Runs are 3-5 mi.
- Week 1 was 3-6-3-6-3-4-9 (34 miles total); built up to a 4-8-12-3 last week (43). This week my runs will be slightly longer but I plan to take New Years Day off.
- All runs are at Easy/Low HR pace. Just re-building the base for now. Plenty of time for intervals and threshold pace as race day gets closer.
- Currently only one ride every week (2-3 hrs on Saturdays). The Bike is my strongest event and running is my weakest so I'm going to try to focus on my weakness for 6-8 weeks.
- No real plans to swim until February or March.
Progress:
- So far I'm pretty happy with how things are going. I'm down about 4-5 lbs this month, my pace for my easy runs has come down ~20 sec/mi at the same HR. The 12 mile run last Sunday seemed easier than the 9 miler did at the beginning of the month.
Long way to go but I'm happy I got started.
Races:
A-Race = IM Switzerland, July 10th. May add an Olympic and a Sprint in the Spring/Summer. Hoping for that elusive Kona Lottery spot again this year, if it doesn't happen, I may throw an end-of-season marathon in the mix (maybe Sacramento...supposed to be a fast course).
Current Training:
- Started on Mon 11/29 after taking it easy for one month after the Athens Marathon (ouch...really tough course).
- 32 weeks from my IM which gives me a 16 week base phase, a 13 week race phase, and a 3 week taper.
- Came up with an idea to run every day in December (actually started on 11/29)...Today will be my 30th day in a row.
- My running schedule is 3 Short, 2 Medium, 1 Long, 1 T-Run where the Medium Runs are twice as long as the Short and the Long Runs are 3X as long as the Short. T Runs are 3-5 mi.
- Week 1 was 3-6-3-6-3-4-9 (34 miles total); built up to a 4-8-12-3 last week (43). This week my runs will be slightly longer but I plan to take New Years Day off.
- All runs are at Easy/Low HR pace. Just re-building the base for now. Plenty of time for intervals and threshold pace as race day gets closer.
- Currently only one ride every week (2-3 hrs on Saturdays). The Bike is my strongest event and running is my weakest so I'm going to try to focus on my weakness for 6-8 weeks.
- No real plans to swim until February or March.
Progress:
- So far I'm pretty happy with how things are going. I'm down about 4-5 lbs this month, my pace for my easy runs has come down ~20 sec/mi at the same HR. The 12 mile run last Sunday seemed easier than the 9 miler did at the beginning of the month.
Long way to go but I'm happy I got started.
__________________
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Progress: Up and down, i did 23 miles last week in 4 days hurt my knee and am taken a few days off I'm averaging 25-35 miles a week right now . no bike or swimming just yet but will hit it pretty hard in January, just running
Races:
A-Rev 3, 70.3 Anderson,SC
B-S.U.E. Kure Beach Double Sprint
C- IM-Augusta 70.3
D- various road races 5k,10k including a couple of half marathons + a Duathon
I'm also going for a lottery spot at IM 70.3 championship in Vegas
a few sprints and 1 olympic is also planned
Current Training:
running a 1.2.3 program of 25-35 miles a week thats it,
doing LSD(long slow distance) 3,7,3,7.5,3,9 for 3 weeks now heart rate at 137 pace is 10-11 minute miles.
riding will start in January with a base ride of 13 miles and going to 60 by the middle of March, also brick training will start in January twice a month of 20+ on bike and 10+ mile runs.
swim- whats that? hopefully get some time in the pool before march if not the ocean will be hit hard in march.
Progress:
not happy at all no swim,no bike and the stupid 1.2.3 run program is killing my legs, but hey i guess its better to hurt a little now than to get hurt in a race.
Races:
A-Rev 3, 70.3 Anderson,SC
B-S.U.E. Kure Beach Double Sprint
C- IM-Augusta 70.3
D- various road races 5k,10k including a couple of half marathons + a Duathon
I'm also going for a lottery spot at IM 70.3 championship in Vegas
a few sprints and 1 olympic is also planned
Current Training:
running a 1.2.3 program of 25-35 miles a week thats it,
doing LSD(long slow distance) 3,7,3,7.5,3,9 for 3 weeks now heart rate at 137 pace is 10-11 minute miles.
riding will start in January with a base ride of 13 miles and going to 60 by the middle of March, also brick training will start in January twice a month of 20+ on bike and 10+ mile runs.
swim- whats that? hopefully get some time in the pool before march if not the ocean will be hit hard in march.
Progress:
not happy at all no swim,no bike and the stupid 1.2.3 run program is killing my legs, but hey i guess its better to hurt a little now than to get hurt in a race.
Last edited by jetta-the-hut; 12-28-10 at 02:44 PM.
#3
Senior Member
Progress: Week 7 of my training. Got the flu and had to take 2 weeks off, so I'm just getting back.
Races:
A- IM70.3 Austin, TX (10/23/11)
B- Georgia Marathon
C- February duathlon, sprint series over the summer
Current Training:
Swim - 3x week, ladder trainings. Focusing on increasing distance.
Run - 3x week, interval trainings. 1 long run. Focusing on distance, but starting to throw in speed work.
Bike - 2x week, 20-60miles.
Plan looks this way for about another month.
Progress:
Was struggling with the swim, now I'm enjoying it more than anything. Running is becoming a bit dull, but I love seeing the improvement. I think I've hit a bit of a plateau on the run, but I'm working on it. I'm always happy to be on my bike
Also, I travel frequently on the weekends, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to work my training in when I'm out of town.
Races:
A- IM70.3 Austin, TX (10/23/11)
B- Georgia Marathon
C- February duathlon, sprint series over the summer
Current Training:
Swim - 3x week, ladder trainings. Focusing on increasing distance.
Run - 3x week, interval trainings. 1 long run. Focusing on distance, but starting to throw in speed work.
Bike - 2x week, 20-60miles.
Plan looks this way for about another month.
Progress:
Was struggling with the swim, now I'm enjoying it more than anything. Running is becoming a bit dull, but I love seeing the improvement. I think I've hit a bit of a plateau on the run, but I'm working on it. I'm always happy to be on my bike
Also, I travel frequently on the weekends, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to work my training in when I'm out of town.
Last edited by Velo Gator; 12-28-10 at 02:47 PM.
#4
Still building base miles
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Mississippi
Posts: 59
Bikes: 2011 Trek 1.5
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'll chime in as a beginner. My A race and likely my only race will be the Chattanooga Waterfront Tri (olympic distance) in July. Currently I am just building base miles in running (4.5 miles is the longest one yet), Cycling every chance I get (love cycling.... it will be a breeze), and have yet to get to a pool (strong swimmer though). I will start hitting the pool in the next month or so, and just work on distance to begin with. I think I am just going to continue like this until Mid-February or so, and then I will start either a 16 or 20 week program. I like the plans over at Beginner Triathlete. What do y'all think of those?
I am going to do a century in mid april with a bike club I ride with, and will likely do a 5k or 2 in the spring.
I am going to do a century in mid april with a bike club I ride with, and will likely do a 5k or 2 in the spring.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 1,410
Bikes: Kona Ute, Nishiki 4130, Trek 7000, K2 Mach 1.0, Novara Randonee, Schwinn Loop, K2 Zed 1.0, Schwinn Cream, Torker Boardwalk
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This thread should not only be motivating but educational. Thank you for starting it CJ.
I have only one race on the calender as of now. Ironman South Africa 2011. I may jump off the fence and do Ironman Cozumel again.
Since it is most important to me, I am still working on improving my swim, especially in a wetsuit. I hope round two will bring good results. Being a commuter, I ride a tank and have strength but need to do a lot of drill work to improve my overall form and speed. The running has taken a turn for the worse given I have injury. Lastly I have to work on the nutrition since it is the weakest of the four disciplines for me.
Currently I am swimming 5-8 times per week, cycling at least 2 times per week and running not much due to injury.
I have only one race on the calender as of now. Ironman South Africa 2011. I may jump off the fence and do Ironman Cozumel again.
Since it is most important to me, I am still working on improving my swim, especially in a wetsuit. I hope round two will bring good results. Being a commuter, I ride a tank and have strength but need to do a lot of drill work to improve my overall form and speed. The running has taken a turn for the worse given I have injury. Lastly I have to work on the nutrition since it is the weakest of the four disciplines for me.
Currently I am swimming 5-8 times per week, cycling at least 2 times per week and running not much due to injury.
Last edited by travelmama; 12-28-10 at 06:18 PM.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
all i can say is there are some deep pockets in this thread, i'll most likely be camping at the Rev3 and Augusta races i'm trying to get into and then looking for local sponsorship to get a ride to las vegas. ever seen Tin CUp when he has all the sponsor on his shirt?
#7
Body by Guinness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 3,326
Bikes: Specialized Allez Pro; Cervelo P2 SL; Tsunami (Converted to Fixed Gear)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Velo Gator - Austin is a great race in a cool town. A few buddies and I are talking about adding that one depending on the outcome of the Kona Lottery.
dspilot - I recall that the programs at beginnertriathlete are pretty good if you can fit them into your schedule. At this point it's basically about getting out there and not getting injured.
travelmama - I was planning to do South Africa this year but the cost of getting down there, the race, accommodations and a week of safari afterward were approaching the costs of a Subaru Outback. So...we decided to switch to Switzerland. Still a bit of money but nowhere near South Africa. Maybe we'll bump into each other riding up and down PCH this season.
dspilot - I recall that the programs at beginnertriathlete are pretty good if you can fit them into your schedule. At this point it's basically about getting out there and not getting injured.
travelmama - I was planning to do South Africa this year but the cost of getting down there, the race, accommodations and a week of safari afterward were approaching the costs of a Subaru Outback. So...we decided to switch to Switzerland. Still a bit of money but nowhere near South Africa. Maybe we'll bump into each other riding up and down PCH this season.
__________________
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 1,410
Bikes: Kona Ute, Nishiki 4130, Trek 7000, K2 Mach 1.0, Novara Randonee, Schwinn Loop, K2 Zed 1.0, Schwinn Cream, Torker Boardwalk
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
travelmama - I was planning to do South Africa this year but the cost of getting down there, the race, accommodations and a week of safari afterward were approaching the costs of a Subaru Outback. So...we decided to switch to Switzerland. Still a bit of money but nowhere near South Africa. Maybe we'll bump into each other riding up and down PCH this season.
#9
Senior Member
I'm really excited about it - planning to make a nice little vacation out of it. You'll have to let me know if you decide to do the race.
#10
Body by Guinness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 3,326
Bikes: Specialized Allez Pro; Cervelo P2 SL; Tsunami (Converted to Fixed Gear)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Weekly Update:
- Down another couple of pounds...about 7 overall.
- Missed my goal of running every day in December by one freakin' day. My fault, we had dinner with friends on the 30th and I gave myself a nasty hangover. Considered trying to get 30 min in but there was no way. How lame of me. 32 days in a row and I screw it up on the last day of the month.
- Back on track with the running this week. Mon 4.5 mi, Tue 9 mi, Wed 4.5. Total plan for the week 47.5
- Need to get back in the swing of the bike. 50-60 miles planned for Saturday, should really be adding at least one more day. Not likely this week but a goal for the week starting 1/10.
Best wishes for everyone else's training!
Cheers.
-CJ
- Down another couple of pounds...about 7 overall.
- Missed my goal of running every day in December by one freakin' day. My fault, we had dinner with friends on the 30th and I gave myself a nasty hangover. Considered trying to get 30 min in but there was no way. How lame of me. 32 days in a row and I screw it up on the last day of the month.
- Back on track with the running this week. Mon 4.5 mi, Tue 9 mi, Wed 4.5. Total plan for the week 47.5
- Need to get back in the swing of the bike. 50-60 miles planned for Saturday, should really be adding at least one more day. Not likely this week but a goal for the week starting 1/10.
Best wishes for everyone else's training!
Cheers.
-CJ
__________________
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
#11
All work and no play...
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My Bro in law gave me "Time crunched Triathlete" for XMas. Been following the training plan which is pretty much built on bricks with a lot of intervals. Doing the bricks is good for me, as is the interval training in my running which still remains the weak part of my game. Also been really minding my diet, want to drop 10-12 lbs by my first sprint the middle of April.
#13
Still building base miles
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Mississippi
Posts: 59
Bikes: 2011 Trek 1.5
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think I am finally on the back of this flu that I have had. I did nothing but have aches and cold sweats for about 10 days. I have finally felt up to doing a couple of runs and getting out on the bike some. I have yet to get to the pool, but the new trunks and goggles that I ordered got here so now I just need to find a good time to go "test the waters" (sorry, couldn't resist) to see where I stand as far as swim endurance. As far as a training plan, I am awaiting from Amazon "Triathlons for Dummies." It seems to have a lot of good first timer info in it, and some training ideas as well. At this point, I am still just working on building a base with running and cycling. Really, I guess the cycling base is pretty well established, so I am more just maintaining it while building on my running.
Since it has come up in other posts....I am still losing weight as well. I have lost about 20 pounds since mid summer (when I started cycling), and hope to get down another 8-10 by the time summer rolls around. I think I finally have my diet dialed in as far as knowing exactly what my calorie needs are for given workouts and rest.
Since it has come up in other posts....I am still losing weight as well. I have lost about 20 pounds since mid summer (when I started cycling), and hope to get down another 8-10 by the time summer rolls around. I think I finally have my diet dialed in as far as knowing exactly what my calorie needs are for given workouts and rest.
#14
Still building base miles
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Mississippi
Posts: 59
Bikes: 2011 Trek 1.5
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So, I finally made it to the pool yesterday and was able to swim an entire 1500 meters. I did the first 750 nonstop, and the last in three sets of 250 with a couple of minutes between each. I did it all in about 45 minutes of swimming time. All in all, I feel pretty good about this given that I still have almost five months to prepare.
My weight is down a couple more pounds (172 lbs.). I am the lightest that I have been in at least ten years. I think I finally have a good grasp on my diet/nutrition/eating habits. I have been steadily dropping it since around September. Hopefully I can get down another ten or so before my race.
I have not been on my bike in two weeks now, between a bad winter storm that hit this area and having to travel for work. I am looking into a fluid trainer to at least keep getting some miles in on. I did get a chance to get on a recumbent in a hotel a couple of times, but it was primarily to give myself a break from running.
I also took the time to enter the 20 week training plan from my book into my outlook calendar. I did this primarily in order to have the plan on my iPhone calendar. That way I always have my plan with me and easily accessible. Seemed like a good idea. We'll see.
That's about it for me for now I guess.
My weight is down a couple more pounds (172 lbs.). I am the lightest that I have been in at least ten years. I think I finally have a good grasp on my diet/nutrition/eating habits. I have been steadily dropping it since around September. Hopefully I can get down another ten or so before my race.
I have not been on my bike in two weeks now, between a bad winter storm that hit this area and having to travel for work. I am looking into a fluid trainer to at least keep getting some miles in on. I did get a chance to get on a recumbent in a hotel a couple of times, but it was primarily to give myself a break from running.
I also took the time to enter the 20 week training plan from my book into my outlook calendar. I did this primarily in order to have the plan on my iPhone calendar. That way I always have my plan with me and easily accessible. Seemed like a good idea. We'll see.
That's about it for me for now I guess.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 1,410
Bikes: Kona Ute, Nishiki 4130, Trek 7000, K2 Mach 1.0, Novara Randonee, Schwinn Loop, K2 Zed 1.0, Schwinn Cream, Torker Boardwalk
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Goodness. I am really not interested in going to South Africa in less than 80 days. I am on the verge of withdrawing from IMSA and returning to Cozumel later in the year with a long distance swim, an olympic of half before then.
#16
Body by Guinness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 3,326
Bikes: Specialized Allez Pro; Cervelo P2 SL; Tsunami (Converted to Fixed Gear)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Some foot pain, business travel and a cold picked up during travel has limited my training over the last two weeks. Planning to get back out there this week.
__________________
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have now been back to training kind of regularly for the last 10 days. I was diagnosed with PFS/patellar maltracking almost a year ago and have been trying desperately to get back to normal since, including 2 months completely off and now 6 months of PT with 2 different therapists. The most recent PT really seems to know their stuff. I'm almost completely pain free now and functioning close to normal.
The last 10 days I have alternated days of running and biking, with one day off per week. I'm running for 20 minutes at a time and biking for about 40. So for the math majors out there, thats about 1 hour of running and 2 hours of biking per week.
I'm planning a very slow progress back to normal over the next 12 weeks. Normal being 30(3-3.5 hours) miles per week of running and 100(5-5.5 hours) miles of biking per week. So I will be adhering fairly closely to the 10% per week rule.
No races planned yet. If I get back to normal and I'm healthy in March I'll probably put 4 races on the calendar this year.
The last 10 days I have alternated days of running and biking, with one day off per week. I'm running for 20 minutes at a time and biking for about 40. So for the math majors out there, thats about 1 hour of running and 2 hours of biking per week.
I'm planning a very slow progress back to normal over the next 12 weeks. Normal being 30(3-3.5 hours) miles per week of running and 100(5-5.5 hours) miles of biking per week. So I will be adhering fairly closely to the 10% per week rule.
No races planned yet. If I get back to normal and I'm healthy in March I'll probably put 4 races on the calendar this year.
#19
Fledgling Triathlete
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Big race planned is the Olympic distance of the Honolulu tri on May 15, with the Lanikai Sprint in April as a tune up. I only have two sprint distance races under my belt so the olympic is a bigger thing for me. Started base training a few weeks ago. Swim in the am M,Tu, Th, bike in the pm M, W, Sun, run in the pm Tu, Th, Sat.
Of course, Hawaii isn't stuck under seven feet of snow like the rest of the country so the only weather I have to worry about is a freak rain storm dumping all over a long ride day.
Of course, Hawaii isn't stuck under seven feet of snow like the rest of the country so the only weather I have to worry about is a freak rain storm dumping all over a long ride day.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NE, Ohio
Posts: 490
Bikes: 2010 Cannondale Supersix 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Lot of snow melted here went out and ran hills today - hard to befieve how much you lose by running on a track. Hills hurt but couches kill.
#21
Body by Guinness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 3,326
Bikes: Specialized Allez Pro; Cervelo P2 SL; Tsunami (Converted to Fixed Gear)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well...I didn't do a great job with this thread. Ironman Switzerland is 16 weeks away so the off-season is officially over. I hope everyone is doing well.
__________________
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
#23
Body by Guinness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 3,326
Bikes: Specialized Allez Pro; Cervelo P2 SL; Tsunami (Converted to Fixed Gear)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Cool! I always look forward to race reports.
__________________
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Missbumble
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
16
01-17-10 05:27 PM