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saw a guy die at triathlon this weekend

Old 07-26-13, 08:10 PM
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I wonder what the number of deaths are in pure open water swim events. Many have the same mass starts and are usually more than 1 mile. I know of several open water swim deaths from the past year or two, but they involved very long solo swims, very hot, or very cold water. By nature these races are mostly made up of athletes with swimming as their main sport.

I see plenty of people at tri-races that are putting on their wetsuits for the very first time, swimming in a lake or ocean for the first time, and really did very little swim training. The mental anxiety of swimming in dark water cannot be ignored. I have seen plenty of above average pool swimmers completely freak out in lake and ocean swims. I would think that this anxiety on top of the pre-race anxiety, adrenaline, and the chaos of the swim start would get the heart racing.

I tell anyone that is thinking of getting into triathlon to not underestimate the swim. I try to get them into our masters program and out for at least 2 ocean/lake swims. Sadly most non-swimmer first time racers think of the swim leg like it is a swim at the pond on the 4th of July.

No matter the cause, these are tragic events. My thoughts and prayers to him and his family. Be safe out there!
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Old 08-02-14, 01:16 AM
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Sipe?

What is "SIPE"? Re DVT: does asprin or blood thinner help with this? Is there a "test" to determine if your genetically disposed to DVT?

Originally Posted by Taipei325
That is a very good point about DVT. I travelled from Taiwan-East Coast North America four times in one summer...on the 4th flight...developed DVT which broke off and formed an embolism in my right lung. I'm was 36, healthy and fit. Turns out my genes for "protein s" make me susceptible to clots.

However, in many cases, SIPEs are not related to blood clots. Instead, swimming deaths in triathlon seem to be related to water temperature, pressure from the suit, adrenalin in the body pre-race, and going out hard to clear the pack. Fitter athletes have a higher rate of death from SIPEs than less fit athletes.

There will always be risks. To manage the risks...get in the water before the swim if possible and put your wetsuit on last minute. Too much standing around fully zipped up in high ambient temps...then a plunge into cold water and a massive and sudden increase in physical exertion...that is not a good thing regardless if it ends up being the cause of SIPEs or not. Warming up in the water will help. Race directors should also let athletes start from the water so that the body can adjust more slowly to the temp difference. And I always try to keep my pace down for the first few hundred meters until I can feel my respiratory needs increasing and I know my body is clicking over into performance mode. Sometimes means I can stuck a little at the front edge of the pack...but hey...part of what I love about triathlon is the chaos of a group swim! If I go out hard...I'm such a porpoise in the water I won't get that experience!
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Old 08-02-14, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by the fly
You can also die in your sleep when you're old having lived an unfulfilled life.

I'm sure given the option anyone would choose to live over dying.

Further specify that you can live to 100 if you never engage in any risky behavior whatsoever, or you can live your life and die at any moment, and I'm sure most will choose the latter.
I'd rather die on the longest bike ride I ever did than die the way my Grandmother did. Brain was so far gone she didn't remember her own name. If I ever see myself heading that way I'll go ride off a cliff first. Horrible.
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Old 08-02-14, 01:53 AM
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Just because you "Think" you can do something doesn't mean you "Should" do it! IMHO, most triathletes and marathoners are morons. Pushing yourself to the point of losing control of your bodily functions or even death is pure insanity.
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Old 08-02-14, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by yote223
Just because you "Think" you can do something doesn't mean you "Should" do it! IMHO, most triathletes and marathoners are morons. Pushing yourself to the point of losing control of your bodily functions or even death is pure insanity.
Living a life without challenging yourself is insanier.
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Old 08-02-14, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rebel1916
Living a life without challenging yourself is insanier.
I've done my "challenges". Against AK-47's and RPG's. BTDT. (been there, done that for the uninitiated).
At least mine were for the right reasons. IMHO Tri's and marathons are for morons.

P.S. Ever heard of spell-check??
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Old 08-02-14, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by yote223
I've done my "challenges". Against AK-47's and RPG's. BTDT. (been there, done that for the uninitiated).
At least mine were for the right reasons. IMHO Tri's and marathons are for morons.

P.S. Ever heard of spell-check??
Purposely made up a word sweetie. And while I am not a vet, and realize that the risks of combat are not to be compared to anything here in the good ol USA, best believe that I put my ass on the line for society every day. Well every work day. I'm RDO today.
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Old 08-02-14, 02:03 PM
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most likely it was undiagnosed heart disease. His genetics probably pre-disposed him to it. His fitness regime was not and is not a guarantee. We see high school kids die at football practice. I was this guy at 56 and was 95% blocked in my left main coronary artery. I had bypass surgery but I know that every time I get on a bike or go for a hike I could die. I could also die in my sleep. My take is that life without risk is no life at all. I am 70 now and have not missed much but what a miserable life I would have had if I lived in fear and avoided the risks that I have taken.
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Old 08-02-14, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by yote223
IMHO Tri's and marathons are for morons.
And IMHO people who troll forums in which they obviously have no interest in are morons.

RISKDR1 is a prime example of someone who has gone on living life to the fullest rather than staying indoors scared.
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Old 08-02-14, 06:01 PM
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could be that more people are dying in triathlons because more people are taking part and more older people are taking it up, i wonder how it compares to other sports
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Old 08-02-14, 06:48 PM
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All I know is that if I die in the manner that I want...I have explicit instruction not to have them wipe the grin off my face
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Old 08-02-14, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by yote223
Just because you "Think" you can do something doesn't mean you "Should" do it! IMHO, most triathletes and marathoners are morons. Pushing yourself to the point of losing control of your bodily functions or even death is pure insanity.
You can't be serious! Pushing ourselves, staying alive and moving about is a big part of what life is. Eventually we all lose control of certain, or some, functions... naturally... if we live long enough. And sooner or later we will all most certainly die.

People cry for the departed elderly too. Death is always sad. Some of die young. Some of us die so very young. Few of us live long enough.
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Old 08-02-14, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by goldfinch
I have never found such a statement consoling. No one enjoys dying right after a swim. When I die I hope I am old and asleep.
Nope! I'm 72 and cycle over 25 miles a day. I joke but am partly serious that my end might possibly be a call to my wife/kids that I was found dead lying next to my bike. They could take consolation knowing I was participating in something I loved till my life's end.

Rich
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Old 08-03-14, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by goldfinch
Interesting point.

I was just talking to a neighbor at our Iowa home. She was a host to Ragbrai riders back when the ride went through her town, maybe 10 years ago. She came out of her house in the morning and one was on her porch swing, dead.

I like long rides. But not long hard rides in the stinking heat.
There were two more this year. Aged 62 and 74, I think, and this was one of the easiest routes in history with mild weather.

Deaths on RAGBRAI (or any event requiring physical activity) always get some attention, but when you watch any 15-20,000 people for a week, there's a real chance that someone might go. It's statistics -- who's to say that the same people might not have still expired if they were at home watching TV instead?
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Old 08-03-14, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by needawheel2
What is "SIPE"? Re DVT: does asprin or blood thinner help with this? Is there a "test" to determine if your genetically disposed to DVT?
Swimming Induced Pumonary Oedema. The wikipedia reference is:

Swimming-induced pulmonary edema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks to Taipei325 for suggesting the alternative. It's worth reading, in my opinion, especially the bit about aspirin as a possible contributory cause...

As to DVT, yes, there is a test for genetic predisposition to it. If you have any doubts or a family history, get it checked. Aspirin can help, but if you do have a predisposition, there are other management issues that are needed, especially if the patient travels by air a lot.

As to the other rubbish posted by the resident troll... well, make of it what you will... which in my case, is nothing.
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Old 08-03-14, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by needawheel2
What is "SIPE"? Re DVT: does asprin or blood thinner help with this? Is there a "test" to determine if your genetically disposed to DVT?
Warfarin or heparin or enoxaparin are anticoagulants that are commonly given to hospitalized adults who are at risk for venous thromboembolism (DVT and Pumonary Embolus). Most hospitalized adults are at risk.
Aspirin is sometimes given to prevent VTE in patients who have joint replacement surgery. (Hips/knees) Graduated compression stockings or intermittent compression devices are also used to prevent VTE.
I'm most familiar with prevention of VTE in hospital settings - not so much otherwise.
I've taken to wearing compression stockings on plane flights, even though my flights have never been that long.
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Old 08-03-14, 04:19 PM
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I've never triathlonned and no desire to, cycling is just fine, thank you.
But everything you do has risks, some higher some lower.
Sometime back, I went with a friend to a couple of her half-ironmans. I was very impressed by the number of volunteers around and the help that was given to people that needed it. It looked to me like everything that could reasonably be done to make it safer was being done.
On the cycling end of it, as best I could tell, cycling in general is about as dangerous PER HOUR as driving. Well, you'll hear of people getting killed cycling and people say "And that's why you shouldn't cycle!" But I've had friends killed while driving and never heard anyone say "Guess I'll stop driving. It's just too dangerous!"
My mom died in 1980 at the age of 50 from complications of diabetes, mainly from being overweight. If she had gotten interested in triathlons, she'd probably be alive today.
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Old 08-04-14, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SgtPepper64
I'm 24 with no real concern of heart issues. But what I'm more interested in is that people are experiencing things like this without having any at all. The shortness of breath mentioned in the article about this guy makes me think it may have been another case of Swimming-Induced Pulmonary Edema (SIPE for short).
then now is the time to get concerned. No one shows concern until they start showing signs of heart disease. By then it's well progressed. It's mostly the food.
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Old 08-06-14, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhodabike
I'd guess that shorter distance races are more likely to attract beginners doing their first race ever. Some people are very unprepared for the swim portion and get bad advice ("You don't have to know how to swim well - your wetsuit will let you float through the swim leg!").
Bingo, we have a winner.

And add in those who figure they will suffer but get through it. Figure on a mile swim people actually train and if they do fail they still have something left.

Back when I was swimming competitively 400 yards was the minimum for the warm up to start a workout.

Also for longer distances the race organizers are more apt to anticipate some will have problems. At 400 years one does not and there might not even space for any safety boats.
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Old 08-06-14, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by yote223
I've done my "challenges". Against AK-47's and RPG's. BTDT. (been there, done that for the uninitiated).
At least mine were for the right reasons. IMHO Tri's and marathons are for morons.

P.S. Ever heard of spell-check??
Please don't have kids. Please please let your personality be enough birth control.

Back on track....

Tragic death. Many events are with implied risk. Watching baseball, swimming in open water, riding at night (like I do). It would suck to spend life on the couch not taking calculated risks.
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Old 08-06-14, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by trsidn
then now is the time to get concerned. No one shows concern until they start showing signs of heart disease. By then it's well progressed. It's mostly the food.
Boy isn't that the truth! It's difficult to feel concerned with you don't feel signs of an issue or you haven't been stung with people around you having a problem.
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Old 08-06-14, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WonderMonkey
Boy isn't that the truth! It's difficult to feel concerned with you don't feel signs of an issue or you haven't been stung with people around you having a problem.
Yup... And since the 'food industry' controls the science, the facts are muddied enough to make things complicated.

If you wanna do triathlon, follow this guy:
Athlete/Author Rich Roll
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Old 08-07-14, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by WonderMonkey
Please don't have kids. Please please let your personality be enough birth control.

Back on track....

Tragic death. Many events are with implied risk. Watching baseball, swimming in open water, riding at night (like I do). It would suck to spend life on the couch not taking calculated risks.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Thank a Veteran that you can still spew senseless drivel without consequence.
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Old 08-07-14, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by yote223
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Thank a Veteran that you can still spew senseless drivel without consequence.
I am a Veteran myself as was my grandfather and uncle. I've served in conflict and don't use it as any excuse to treat others a certain way. Sounds like you are far too proud of yourself about what you were directed to do. Be humble about it and don't carry it in front of you to excuse you being an idiot. How many times do you bring it up on a weekly or monthly basis to those around you? I suspect a fair amount.

Serving in conflict does not allow you to then call others morons. Notice how you are reacting when people aren't liking your actions? It's the same back to you. Ping and pong and so on. And what possible consequence would you speak of? Going to type in all caps or something?

Yes I'm an unarmed opponent. Another fine phrase. Are you going to say "He's your sign!" next? Or maybe "You are a special kind of stupid, aren't you son?" That's another one that takes little thought to spew.

Head on back and play paintball so you can get your aggressive fix.
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Old 08-07-14, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by trsidn
Yup... And since the 'food industry' controls the science, the facts are muddied enough to make things complicated.

If you wanna do triathlon, follow this guy:
Athlete/Author Rich Roll
I'll follow him, thanks for the point. I'll increment my way into this world. I hike, etc. and like to push my body to where the mind has to take over and make it go. I know I don't push it like many here but I'm working on it. Hopefully my new friend @yote223/556 can help me out.
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