Abneycat

Hey there. So i'm building up my Xtracycle using components nipped from my old full suspension bike. She's going to pull dual-duty as my utility bike, and an off-road touring bike. What are your opinions on these frames, has anyone used one with an Xtracycle or even alone on its own?

https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...Frames%2FBikes

With the Nashbar frame, I could still use my suspension fork, which is a plus. I do note that the chainstay bridge has 3 holes in it instead of just one though, which seems a little sketchy to lay the Freeradical's tongue down on.

https://www.surlybikes.com/instigator.html

Or the Instigator, which i'd probably get the rigid fork for. Rock solid.

spambait11

Maybe an extra FAP with a longer bolt will work? In general, I hate the idea of laying the tongue on the bridge; I wish Xtracycle would come up with a more elegant solution.

bizzz111

why not get the big dummy? Cost?

Kimmitt 

That's what will keep me from getting it.

Abneycat

I've already got a Freeradical, and it serves its purpose extremely well. I don't see much need to go beyond that. The frame its currently mounted on however, has some problems, difficult ones like chainline clearance and chainstay bridge durability. Its also quite a bit too small and i've had to correct that with a steering tube extender, and the frame overall hasn't got the strength needed to off-road tour.

Old_Fart

If you are planning on buying a new frame, the Instigator, rigid fork, and Xtracycle are going to be really close to the cost of a Big Dummy. If you're not buying for a month or so, I'd seriously consider waiting for that.

I don't know what you have in mind for off-road touring. As long as the front wheel stays on the ground an Xtra-equipped bike is fine but anything requiring lifting the front wheel or drops is right out. Gravel roads, logging roads maybe, and rail trails are just fine but anything tight or technical is going to get old fast.

Here's my Instigator Xtracycle;


The BB ended up really high on this bike. Certainly higher than it needs to be for road use but it may be a good thing on an off-road rigid bike.

I tried it with a suspension fork first but note that lengthening the rear pushes your weight bias way forward. If you are a clyde like me you will have to go rigid to keep the front from having too much sag.

Overall I think the Instigator is a good solid mule for the Xtracycle. I have been keeping an eye on the chainstay bridge and it is holding up just fine after over a year, lots of light load trips and a few pretty heavy loads. In cases I have seen where there has been a problem here, the point of failure was the tab on the Xtra, not the chainstay bridge on the frame.

EricJ

Availability
Cost
If you don't like it, you are stuck with it.

Eric

dwnptrl_777

Looks sharp!

Abneycat

Do you find that the BB is perhaps too high for good road handling? I've been looking at the Instigator more closely over the last few days. Surly's blog seems to indicate that the Big Dummy is a better option, which it probably is, I would think it would be an improvement, but I wonder if its really better to the point of being incredibly improved and of making the Freeradical look weak, or just good.

You're the second person to have mentioned the BB height on this combo, the other person certainly didn't like how high up it was. Others though, have said they like the combination since the Instigator is nearly invincible, really cuts down on the amount of wobbling compared to some other frames, and lets you really get the most out of the load rating on the Freeradical without worrying about overextending your frame's capabilities.. Sort of on the line between sweating over the BB height and being drawn towards those benefits, which sound quite nice.

On the Big Dummy, if I hadn't already got the Freeradical then I would be all over one - but with one, there's not really any immediately apparent need to spring for it. I'm more than happy with how the Freeradical performs on road, and with a little welding modification it'll be ready for some punishment I think.

Old_Fart

The high BB is not a big issue for me but it is an issue. It would be nicer to be able to tip-toe at stop lights like I can on all my other bikes instead of having to jump off the saddle, especially if loaded (the bike, not me ). As far as handling dynamics or whatever, it's not a problem.

garth_s

Just as an idea, I had a friend at work with welding equipment help me make a fap out of an old file. There is a top and bottom to it. I saw this idea on a website from Australia(chainring transit authority), Works great!

Old_Fart

Garth, what frame is that? It looks like a 1x1.
The Instigator's chainstay bridge is further back and is squarely under the tab on the Free Radical. I had thought about cutting and welding the tab on the F.R. to change the angle of the Xtra but I didn't want to mess with the frame angles. I haven't seen an Xtra on a 1x1 before but there are a few around here on Karate Monkeys, at least a couple of them with 26" wheels, which is one way to get the BB lower. The KM doesn't have a chainstay bridge so it would be much easier to fab a FAP to adjust the Xtra mount angle.

Old_Fart

Hmm, how about 24 inch wheels on an Instigator?

Abneycat

You know, thats probably actually a really good idea.. Lots of strong BMX offerings out there, Big Apples come in 24", hmm..

Old_Fart

Also, since the Instigator fork is sold separate from the frame, you could get a shorter fork and just build a 24" rear wheel. That way you would only have the expense of one wheel. Instigator fork is 447mm a-c with a 43 offset. There's lots of 26" rigid forks out there to choose from anywhere from about 390mm on up and several are less expensive that the Instigator.

Since it is tough to lift the front wheel on the Xtra, it would be nice to keep the bigger hoop up front so it's a tad easier to roll over stuff.

Abneycat

You've got some really good ideas, really. I'm going to ask the guys at the LBS who've ordered the frame about this.

By the way if you don't mind me asking, how did you make the custom decals, or where did you go to get them?

Old_Fart

For reference, I just went out to the garage to measure; the BB on the rig as pictured above is about 12.25 inches. My Cross Check with 700x35 tires on it is a tad over 11 inches.

Old_Fart

The decals are from bikenames.com. They were really reasonably priced and showed up within a week from ordering them online.

Abneycat

That looks pretty cool.. I've always wanted to name this bike yippie ki-yay, or possibly escape moose.

Something silly, at any rate.

dwnptrl_777

"Escape Moose"...I like it!

garth_s

My frame is a 1 x 1 with a rohloff hub, couldn't reach the bridge to attach frame. This frame has been very stable under load for me, not much wobble.

tfahrner

For Xtracycles including Big Dummy, I greatly prefer 24" wheels with 2.35" Big Apples to 26" wheels with either high or low volume tires. High volume tires provide the only suspension to be had for the dead weight of your cargo, and improve braking and comfort. 24" lets you have it while still keeping the bottom bracket in the range of road bikes, so you can get a foot down to stabilize at stops, and mount/dismount easily without leaning the bike. This matters with a heavily loaded bike, particularly if your load is precious and mounted high, like a kid.

You need disc or drum brakes to swap wheel sizes like this.

A similar trick is to start with a so-called "two-niner" frame (designed for 700c rims with poofy tires) and fit 26" wheels; e.g., https://clevercycles.com/?p=136 .

This advice doesn't apply if you intend actually to jump logs and so on with your cargo bike, or if you insist on pedaling through high speed sharp turns, such that you risk striking a pedal. Both Xtracycle and Surly do tend to promote the concept of these bikes being MTBs, and optimize ground clearance accordingly. I'm more urban/pavement oriented, excluding curb-hopping.

tlupfer

that would solve the bottom bracket height issue, but because of the small amount of drop to the bottom bracket the head and seat tube angles get steeper. if you measure the height of the dropout on the instigator frame w/freerad you'll find that the frame is tilted forward versus where it would be without a freeradical. this would remain unchanged with the smaller wheels. one solution that I tried was to mount the tongue below the chainstay bridge. it did a fairly good job of getting the geometry back to normal, but introduced the new concern of a heavy load being supported by a bolt rather than a bridge.

Old_Fart

I see a project taking shape for the Juggernaut.

I have a wheel I'm not using to take an XT hub from. A 24" Rhyno lite XL can't be too expensive. A shorter fork from either Tange, Dimension, Salsa (cro-moto), or even a different Surly (1x1) fork will bring the front down. I should actually be able to convert the Juggernaut for about $200, give or take a few bucks.

If the gearing is too low I can change the rings from 22/32/44 to 26/36/48. Although I can't really see a downside to having low gearing on a cargo bike with the hills here in Seattle.

Old_Fart

This is another reason to maybe revisit my earlier idea of cutting off the tab on the Free Radical and welding on a higher tab.