Internal hub vs. external drive train
08-16-07, 12:43 AM
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Internal hub vs. external drive train
Way back in the distant past (i.e., the before the 1970s), most bikes had internal hub gearing. Then ten speeds became more popular, and after that mountain bikes, both of which have the by now nearly universal external gears, with front and rear derailleurs (sp). Personally, I've only owned bikes -road bikes, mountain bikes, and utility bikes- with external drive trains, and I've not had any problems with them. A bike with 27 gears is your friend if you have to ride up and down big hills everywhere you go. Lately, though, I've seen a lot more bikes with internal hubs, and I've run into more than a few people who actually look down their noses at external gears. So, here's the question: which drive train is better, and why?
08-16-07, 01:26 AM
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Of course, there is no universal 'better'; it depends on your needs. That said, a couple of points:
The Shimano 8-speed Nexus has a wider gear range than the typical 53-39 / 12-25.
Internal gears are easier to adjust and maintain, particularly in nasty weather; hence, their use a commuter bikes. The chain and rings are also beefier, since there is no need for skinny chains, and therefore more durable.
External gears are more efficient (less parasitic power loss), lighter, and give you more gear choices (fine tuning of gear); hence their use in racing or long distance riding.
Internal gears are cool.
External gears are cool.
The Shimano 8-speed Nexus has a wider gear range than the typical 53-39 / 12-25.
Internal gears are easier to adjust and maintain, particularly in nasty weather; hence, their use a commuter bikes. The chain and rings are also beefier, since there is no need for skinny chains, and therefore more durable.
External gears are more efficient (less parasitic power loss), lighter, and give you more gear choices (fine tuning of gear); hence their use in racing or long distance riding.
Internal gears are cool.
External gears are cool.
08-16-07, 03:13 AM
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IMHO they both have their place...but you have a hard time convincing me that any cyclist out side of a serious racer really needs 25-30 gears (or whatever the current gotta have number is) I suspect that 75% of the people could get by with 3-5 speeds. People living in hilly areas may need more, but the 8 speed Nexus takes care of that. For the dedicated tourist that is riding coast to coast there is always the Rohloff
Internal geared hubs require less maintenance, you use all the gears (no overlaps or cross chaining) and I believe that the chains last longer. They do have a higher initial cost, but the pay back is over time by not having to replace worn out components. I have never had to replace a worn out cog on any of my three speed bikes and some of them have over 30,000 miles on them.
Internal geared hubs are a no brainer to ride...you put in 1 to start out, then 2 and so one, if it gets hard to pedal, shift down a gear. No worrying about getting caught at a stop light in top gear because you forgot to down shift or some clown cut you off causing a full emergency stop.
They are easier to keep clean and are less prone to fouling with mud, snow and general road trash.
I am not sure about the efficiency of one system over the other. I have seen studies that go both ways, but if I factor in the repair and down time of both systems the Internal wins in my book.
I own both internal, external and single speed bikes. I much prefer the internal hubs for daily use.
The main advantage I can see to a external drive train would be the fine tuning of gears to fit the narrow power band of the human body, however I am not interested in peak performance. I am interested in getting there in one piece, under my own power in a fairly rested and clean state
Aaron
Internal geared hubs require less maintenance, you use all the gears (no overlaps or cross chaining) and I believe that the chains last longer. They do have a higher initial cost, but the pay back is over time by not having to replace worn out components. I have never had to replace a worn out cog on any of my three speed bikes and some of them have over 30,000 miles on them.
Internal geared hubs are a no brainer to ride...you put in 1 to start out, then 2 and so one, if it gets hard to pedal, shift down a gear. No worrying about getting caught at a stop light in top gear because you forgot to down shift or some clown cut you off causing a full emergency stop.
They are easier to keep clean and are less prone to fouling with mud, snow and general road trash.
I am not sure about the efficiency of one system over the other. I have seen studies that go both ways, but if I factor in the repair and down time of both systems the Internal wins in my book.
I own both internal, external and single speed bikes. I much prefer the internal hubs for daily use.
The main advantage I can see to a external drive train would be the fine tuning of gears to fit the narrow power band of the human body, however I am not interested in peak performance. I am interested in getting there in one piece, under my own power in a fairly rested and clean state
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
08-16-07, 05:29 AM
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IMHO they both have their place...but you have a hard time convincing me that any cyclist out side of a serious racer really needs 25-30 gears (or whatever the current gotta have number is) I suspect that 75% of the people could get by with 3-5 speeds. People living in hilly areas may need more, but the 8 speed Nexus takes care of that. For the dedicated tourist that is riding coast to coast there is always the Rohloff
Internal geared hubs require less maintenance, you use all the gears (no overlaps or cross chaining) and I believe that the chains last longer. They do have a higher initial cost, but the pay back is over time by not having to replace worn out components. I have never had to replace a worn out cog on any of my three speed bikes and some of them have over 30,000 miles on them.
Internal geared hubs are a no brainer to ride...you put in 1 to start out, then 2 and so one, if it gets hard to pedal, shift down a gear. No worrying about getting caught at a stop light in top gear because you forgot to down shift or some clown cut you off causing a full emergency stop.
They are easier to keep clean and are less prone to fouling with mud, snow and general road trash.
I am not sure about the efficiency of one system over the other. I have seen studies that go both ways, but if I factor in the repair and down time of both systems the Internal wins in my book.
I own both internal, external and single speed bikes. I much prefer the internal hubs for daily use.
The main advantage I can see to a external drive train would be the fine tuning of gears to fit the narrow power band of the human body, however I am not interested in peak performance. I am interested in getting there in one piece, under my own power in a fairly rested and clean state
Aaron
Internal geared hubs require less maintenance, you use all the gears (no overlaps or cross chaining) and I believe that the chains last longer. They do have a higher initial cost, but the pay back is over time by not having to replace worn out components. I have never had to replace a worn out cog on any of my three speed bikes and some of them have over 30,000 miles on them.
Internal geared hubs are a no brainer to ride...you put in 1 to start out, then 2 and so one, if it gets hard to pedal, shift down a gear. No worrying about getting caught at a stop light in top gear because you forgot to down shift or some clown cut you off causing a full emergency stop.
They are easier to keep clean and are less prone to fouling with mud, snow and general road trash.
I am not sure about the efficiency of one system over the other. I have seen studies that go both ways, but if I factor in the repair and down time of both systems the Internal wins in my book.
I own both internal, external and single speed bikes. I much prefer the internal hubs for daily use.
The main advantage I can see to a external drive train would be the fine tuning of gears to fit the narrow power band of the human body, however I am not interested in peak performance. I am interested in getting there in one piece, under my own power in a fairly rested and clean state
Aaron
For everyday utility cycling an internal hub is hard to beat.
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OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
08-16-07, 10:11 AM
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"So, here's the question: which drive train is better, and why?"
There is no 'best' there is only "what's correct for the job".
That said a hub with more that 14 gears would need to be
a monster and like the 14 speed of today weight a ton.
While many here will not remember it Shimano during the
10 speed era came out with a most excellent compromise
gearing arrangment call the "Front Freewheel" that allowed
an external system to be shifted like a hub. The best of
both world if you will. I have a bike with this system
and it is superior in an urban setting to either hub or
external gear setups. However, this set up was a great
idea at the wrong time in history.
There is no 'best' there is only "what's correct for the job".
That said a hub with more that 14 gears would need to be
a monster and like the 14 speed of today weight a ton.
While many here will not remember it Shimano during the
10 speed era came out with a most excellent compromise
gearing arrangment call the "Front Freewheel" that allowed
an external system to be shifted like a hub. The best of
both world if you will. I have a bike with this system
and it is superior in an urban setting to either hub or
external gear setups. However, this set up was a great
idea at the wrong time in history.
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My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
08-16-07, 11:15 AM
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IMHO they both have their place...but you have a hard time convincing me that any cyclist out side of a serious racer really needs 25-30 gears (or whatever the current gotta have number is) I suspect that 75% of the people could get by with 3-5 speeds. People living in hilly areas may need more, but the 8 speed Nexus takes care of that. For the dedicated tourist that is riding coast to coast there is always the Rohloff
Internal geared hubs require less maintenance, you use all the gears (no overlaps or cross chaining) and I believe that the chains last longer. They do have a higher initial cost, but the pay back is over time by not having to replace worn out components. I have never had to replace a worn out cog on any of my three speed bikes and some of them have over 30,000 miles on them.
Internal geared hubs are a no brainer to ride...you put in 1 to start out, then 2 and so one, if it gets hard to pedal, shift down a gear. No worrying about getting caught at a stop light in top gear because you forgot to down shift or some clown cut you off causing a full emergency stop.
They are easier to keep clean and are less prone to fouling with mud, snow and general road trash.
I am not sure about the efficiency of one system over the other. I have seen studies that go both ways, but if I factor in the repair and down time of both systems the Internal wins in my book.
I own both internal, external and single speed bikes. I much prefer the internal hubs for daily use.
The main advantage I can see to a external drive train would be the fine tuning of gears to fit the narrow power band of the human body, however I am not interested in peak performance. I am interested in getting there in one piece, under my own power in a fairly rested and clean state
Aaron
Internal geared hubs require less maintenance, you use all the gears (no overlaps or cross chaining) and I believe that the chains last longer. They do have a higher initial cost, but the pay back is over time by not having to replace worn out components. I have never had to replace a worn out cog on any of my three speed bikes and some of them have over 30,000 miles on them.
Internal geared hubs are a no brainer to ride...you put in 1 to start out, then 2 and so one, if it gets hard to pedal, shift down a gear. No worrying about getting caught at a stop light in top gear because you forgot to down shift or some clown cut you off causing a full emergency stop.
They are easier to keep clean and are less prone to fouling with mud, snow and general road trash.
I am not sure about the efficiency of one system over the other. I have seen studies that go both ways, but if I factor in the repair and down time of both systems the Internal wins in my book.
I own both internal, external and single speed bikes. I much prefer the internal hubs for daily use.
The main advantage I can see to a external drive train would be the fine tuning of gears to fit the narrow power band of the human body, however I am not interested in peak performance. I am interested in getting there in one piece, under my own power in a fairly rested and clean state
Aaron
08-16-07, 12:25 PM
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Just a couple of additional thoughts...
Derailer bikes have many gears overlap, so you don't really get 27 gears anyhow--perhaps half that. They are more efficient--if you spin one by hand and do the same to the internal gear hub, you'll see that the internal hub one will stop much sooner that the other.
This type of derailer is "better," I think, for long bike rides and for those with steep inclines. Group rides or fitness rides are good on this bike.
I don't go on rides like that, but one day I can see myself doing that.
Internal gear hub bikes are "better," imo, for commuting and utility riding. They typically can handle a load and have the gearing for stop and starts as well as hills (if you get more than 3 speed). They typically have a chain guard. They can be shifted at at stop, to get in the right gear. They don't require the adjustment or chain cleaning that a external derailer hub requires.
My bike, a 7 speed internal gear Breezer, is great for utility and for commuting. I get a lot of miles in that way, and I ride for a purpose. The bike is no doubt slower than a road bike, but that extra energy I put into it is well worth it. I need to keep the weight off anyhow!!!
Derailer bikes have many gears overlap, so you don't really get 27 gears anyhow--perhaps half that. They are more efficient--if you spin one by hand and do the same to the internal gear hub, you'll see that the internal hub one will stop much sooner that the other.
This type of derailer is "better," I think, for long bike rides and for those with steep inclines. Group rides or fitness rides are good on this bike.
I don't go on rides like that, but one day I can see myself doing that.
Internal gear hub bikes are "better," imo, for commuting and utility riding. They typically can handle a load and have the gearing for stop and starts as well as hills (if you get more than 3 speed). They typically have a chain guard. They can be shifted at at stop, to get in the right gear. They don't require the adjustment or chain cleaning that a external derailer hub requires.
My bike, a 7 speed internal gear Breezer, is great for utility and for commuting. I get a lot of miles in that way, and I ride for a purpose. The bike is no doubt slower than a road bike, but that extra energy I put into it is well worth it. I need to keep the weight off anyhow!!!
08-16-07, 01:32 PM
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08-16-07, 05:08 PM
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I disagree with part of this statement. The reason people don't clean single / internal hub chains isn't due to them somehow not getting as dirty or requiring less lubrication than externally geared bikes. What it boils down to is that the dérailleur bikes will "let you know" that your chain needs maintenance where the single / internal system will often just keep chugging along. Win, lose, or **** the chain still needs to be cleaned and lubed regularly.
My Indian built Hercules Ladies Roadster
........ and while it's true that they do make wheel removal a little more awkward, all my bikes that have a chaincase always have clean and pristine chains that rarely need any adjustment. I've owned my 'Wu Yang' roadster that I purchased NOS for well over 10 years now and the chain is still like new.
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OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
08-16-07, 05:37 PM
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I wouldn't say the internal geared hubs and chains are maintenance free, but they don't require the amount of attention that a externally geared bike does. Mine get run thru the chain cleaner gizmo whenever it looks a bit grungy. But I get many more miles out of a single cog chain than the freewheel ones. Also as no surprise I get better mileage out of a road chain than a MTB chain. I know I used to change the chain on my Raleigh Sports every 3-4 years and I was riding 3,000+ miles a year at that point. So 10,000 miles on a single cog well cared for chain isn't out of the question. I also don't think the current chains are nearly as heavy as the older ones. I have a couple of basic KMC 1/8" chains and the side plates and rollers are not as heavy as the one NOS Raleigh that I have.
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
08-16-07, 06:36 PM
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internal gear hub vs. external
As others suggest, each has its place. The ideal of the internal gear hub is a device that keeps the workings protected from the elements, making it seemingly preferable for commuters or city bikers who will ride regularly in wet conditions and don't mind the additional weight. I've now used a Shimano Nexus 7-speed Marin San Anselmo for all errand running/local shopping for 9 years. Generally, the performance has been as expected. What's been an issue is service. A flat rear tire poses a problem since both the shift and brake cables must be removed. Three successive shops were been unable to set the shifter cable properly on the first try due to inexperience. This resulted in improper shifting and the need to return the bike. Mechanics unfamiliar with Nexus didn't even know it wasn't shifting properly.
I replaced the tires with Continental Contacts and have yet to have a flat since. The hub is also subject to wear and tear. When mine began rattling and the brake began grinding, I took the bike to a very good shop with extensive Nexus experience. They found the brake actuating lever assembly and an internal cog were worn. I thought the charge of $25 for the part and $25 labor was reasonable for a first-class job that has the hub running as well as new and, hopefully, it will go another 8 or 9 years. Bottom line: for a utility bike, the internal hub has a lot to offer but put on tough tires and buy from a shop with mechanics skilled in the ways of the Nexus.
I replaced the tires with Continental Contacts and have yet to have a flat since. The hub is also subject to wear and tear. When mine began rattling and the brake began grinding, I took the bike to a very good shop with extensive Nexus experience. They found the brake actuating lever assembly and an internal cog were worn. I thought the charge of $25 for the part and $25 labor was reasonable for a first-class job that has the hub running as well as new and, hopefully, it will go another 8 or 9 years. Bottom line: for a utility bike, the internal hub has a lot to offer but put on tough tires and buy from a shop with mechanics skilled in the ways of the Nexus.
08-16-07, 08:39 PM
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I would just like to say that this is exactly why I've been wishing for a utility cycling forum for so long. Us non-black/white thinkers are haunting the joint...
I prefer my Nexus 8 for a few reasons. I'm not fond of derailleur cleaning rituals in a climate with a long rainy season, I love being able to make fast starts when the light turns green, shifting while not pedalling feels more intuitive to me (YMMV), and 8 gears doesn't require much brain power after a stressful day at work. That said, I can totally see why a derailleur drivetrain works better in certain situations.
I prefer my Nexus 8 for a few reasons. I'm not fond of derailleur cleaning rituals in a climate with a long rainy season, I love being able to make fast starts when the light turns green, shifting while not pedalling feels more intuitive to me (YMMV), and 8 gears doesn't require much brain power after a stressful day at work. That said, I can totally see why a derailleur drivetrain works better in certain situations.
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"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
08-16-07, 09:26 PM
#13
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Well, some posts on this thread got me curious, so I went to the LBS and test-rode a bike with a Nexus 8-speed hub, in busy rush-hour traffic and on the biggest hills I could find in the neighborhood, and I LOVED it. It shifts pretty smoothly, you can go up and down all your gears with impunity, and it did much better on a fairly steep hill than I had expected. I especially liked the way you could change gears while you're just standing there, which is a huge bonus if you ride in traffic all the time. I'm seriously thinking of putting this thing on my existing bike- if I can justify the $500-600 it'll take to switch drive trains....
BTW, is the weight difference that great? I mean, by the time you replace all the derailleurs and everything? The hub seemed a bit heavy to me...
BTW, is the weight difference that great? I mean, by the time you replace all the derailleurs and everything? The hub seemed a bit heavy to me...
08-16-07, 10:22 PM
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In a perfect world where there would be no weather problems, no sand on the road and where you would happily clean your derailleur every few days in the winter, where there would be no snow, where you would never have it knocked by a parking pole, the derailleur of course makes a lot of sense. I think internally geared hubs make more sense in real day-to-day conditions.
The weight is a bit more, but it's not a boat anchor either. I carry way more stuff on my rack, that's where the bulk of the weight is. You could also try losing 2 pounds, that'll be plenty to compensate.
The weight is a bit more, but it's not a boat anchor either. I carry way more stuff on my rack, that's where the bulk of the weight is. You could also try losing 2 pounds, that'll be plenty to compensate.
08-17-07, 05:35 AM
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...A bike with 27 gears is your friend if you have to ride up and down big hills everywhere you go. Lately, though, I've seen a lot more bikes with internal hubs, and I've run into more than a few people who actually look down their noses at external gears. So, here's the question: which drive train is better, and why?
Internal hubs have a big advantage in urban riding because if you have to stop unexpectedly you can downshift them while standing still. This may seem like a minor annoyance if you're used to external gears, but once you get used to having the ability, you realize that it is nice to have.
~
08-17-07, 07:11 AM
#16
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I use external gears because that is what is put out for the trash man so it is affordable. Some are worn out but most are very usable. In the 1970's I used internal 3 spds because that was what was out for the trash man. I really like the internal but I do not find any any that fit my budget. I'd really like to try the Nuvinci but first I'd have to get a bigger pry bar to get my pocket book open.
08-17-07, 07:24 AM
#17
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External gears is better for cross-country riding. They're cheaper and more durable than a geared hub and their particular disadvantage (requiring spinning forward to shift gears) doesn't cause much of a problem in this use.
Internal hubs have a big advantage in urban riding because if you have to stop unexpectedly you can downshift them while standing still. This may seem like a minor annoyance if you're used to external gears, but once you get used to having the ability, you realize that it is nice to have.
~
Internal hubs have a big advantage in urban riding because if you have to stop unexpectedly you can downshift them while standing still. This may seem like a minor annoyance if you're used to external gears, but once you get used to having the ability, you realize that it is nice to have.
~
The cost over the long run is a break even the best I can tell. And I don't buy the durability argument at all. I rode coast to coast in 1977 on a 10speed
I started the ride with an almost new drive train, replaced the chain somewhere in VA due to failure (not sure why it failed, probably a bad link?) a year later I replace the freewheel and the middle chain ring due to wear, and replaced the chain again as a matter of course. I have ridden both types of bikes for years and still contend that in the long run the internal geared hub is going to last longer with less overall maintenance than the dérailleur system. I have yet to see a external geared system go 30,000 miles without replacing major components.(this is assuming that both systems receive basic maintenance on a regular basis. As far as the touring aspect of it is concerned I think it is personal preference. People do tour on internal gears and have for years. With the introduction of the Rolhoff hub it is even more practical than ever. We are looking at getting a high end touring tandem and the Rolhoff is on the short list.Aaron
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ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
08-17-07, 07:32 AM
#18
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Well, some posts on this thread got me curious, so I went to the LBS and test-rode a bike with a Nexus 8-speed hub, in busy rush-hour traffic and on the biggest hills I could find in the neighborhood, and I LOVED it. It shifts pretty smoothly, you can go up and down all your gears with impunity, and it did much better on a fairly steep hill than I had expected. I especially liked the way you could change gears while you're just standing there, which is a huge bonus if you ride in traffic all the time. I'm seriously thinking of putting this thing on my existing bike- if I can justify the $500-600 it'll take to switch drive trains....
BTW, is the weight difference that great? I mean, by the time you replace all the derailleurs and everything? The hub seemed a bit heavy to me...
BTW, is the weight difference that great? I mean, by the time you replace all the derailleurs and everything? The hub seemed a bit heavy to me...
The cost doesn't sound way out of line. You can buy a complete Nexus 8 wheel from Harris for around $300 (that is a 700c) the shifter runs another $25. I assume the rest will be labor and miscellaneous parts. For comparison a Breezer Uptown is around $1200 or so for the complete bike, aluminum framed, front generator hub, etc.Now you have me looking and scheming again
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
08-17-07, 12:42 PM
#19
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... I don't buy the durability argument at all. I rode coast to coast in 1977 on a 10speed:eek::p I started the ride with an almost new drive train, replaced the chain somewhere in VA due to failure (not sure why it failed, probably a bad link?) a year later I replace the freewheel and the middle chain ring due to wear, and replaced the chain again as a matter of course. ...
If I remember right, the chainrings typically went 50K miles, and the chains went 3K miles. I remember the 50K chainring part because the article said he gives the used chainrings to particularly big donors.
This is one page, but it isn't the one.
https://www.miles4melanoma.com/hoffman.html
"..."I did my first centry on a Schwinn Sting-Ray, with just one gear, and rode 19 centuries in a year at age 10. ..."
:>o
~
08-17-07, 01:24 PM
#20
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Those are the chrome steel chain rings like are on my 30,000+ mile Raleigh...they will last for ever. Usually the ones on the average road bike are some type of aluminum alloy. Yes they also make them out of Ti too. I have never known an aluminum ring to go much over 4 chain swaps which would be around the 12,000 mile mark. One of the manufacturers many years ago tried to make an aluminum freewheel for weight savings, it didn't last very long and IIRC they stopped building it.
Thanks for the link on Fast Freddy...I had forgotten about him.
Aaron
Thanks for the link on Fast Freddy...I had forgotten about him.
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
08-17-07, 06:33 PM
#21
Sister Annie
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I can never understand why folk rush about banishing steel components from their bicycles. Oh I can understand why cheap stamped out chain store 'World Bike' junk should be binned, but the classic makers such as Raleigh et al made use of good quality steels that were properly hardened and machined to make components that were designed to last.
Even in the 1980s it was still possible to find machined steel components of good quality. My Malvern Star is fitted with beautiful machined 40/52 steel chainwheels and I fully intend to continue to use them because I don't think I could find anything better on the modern parts shelf to replace them with.
Even in the 1980s it was still possible to find machined steel components of good quality. My Malvern Star is fitted with beautiful machined 40/52 steel chainwheels and I fully intend to continue to use them because I don't think I could find anything better on the modern parts shelf to replace them with.
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OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
08-17-07, 06:47 PM
#22
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I agree Sianlle, one thing that people forget...when Raleigh was in it's heyday steel was king and aluminum cost more than gold. The quality of steel in the old British bikes is second to none and ditto the nickel chrome plating. I have cleaned up many a bike over the years and the old Raleighs, Hercules, Phillips, Coventry Crosses and the like from The Realm always seem to clean up better than the newer pacific rim stuff. The old Chicago Schwinns are the same way...Steel has been around a long, long, long time.
Aaron
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
08-18-07, 07:12 AM
#23
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What's been an issue is service. A flat rear tire poses a problem since both the shift and brake cables must be removed. Three successive shops were been unable to set the shifter cable properly on the first try due to inexperience. This resulted in improper shifting and the need to return the bike. Mechanics unfamiliar with Nexus didn't even know it wasn't shifting properly.
08-18-07, 04:20 PM
#24
Sister Annie
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How hard is it to change a rear tire on the road side with these things? This is something I have been wondering about and seems like it could be a problem for commuting. It seems to me that shift and brake cables need to be disconnected and the chain needs not be retentioned. Do quick realese hubs work with internal hubs?
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OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
