sapolin

The live human cargo in the back of a long bike COULD have problems if the motor part had some mexican food or beans the day before the ride

(That was a cheap and easy one... I know...)

But on a more serious note... maybe, I say just maybe it is more reassuring for parents to have a watchful eye on the babies/toddlers during the ride... just maybe...

sapolin

10+, and I don't even have children

Elkhound

I should also mention that in addition to the Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver stores mentioned in my links, I know of stores that sell Bakfiesten in Minneapolis, Chicago, and somewhere in Florida; I think that there are a few others.

wahoonc

There was also one in Vermont and I believe Boston. I have ridden a Baksfiet and can definitely see the usefulness of one. I have also hauled my kids in a trailer for many, many miles. A Baks would have been a great choice when they were smaller. I did not put my children in the trailer until they were around 3 and 4 years old, they did get antsy so trips were very short. I suspect with a Baks longer trips would have been possible because of the ability to converse with them and head off problems and the multitude of questions. In the trailer they basically had to entertain themselves with some interesting results...like throwing trail mix at drafting riders, and the one time my son chose to relieve himself over the side

Aaron

I-Like-To-Bike

Thanks for the references. I learned that they are even more expensive than I dreamed. $3,000+ Bilenky? I'm afraid to guess what he charges for his "utility" bikes.

Cadillac Escalade buyers probably believe they need the "utility" their vehicles provide too.

wahoonc

Expensive? Yes, but if used to replace a second car? They are also built to last, by people making real world wages. Currently the bulk of them are built in Denmark or The Netherlands. Small number production and small number import drives the cost up. Used is one way to go, but it is a very limited market in the US.

Aaron

I-Like-To-Bike

If someone can replace a second car with a bike, he/she can do it for a lot less than $3000, a whole lot less and a baksfiet is hardly the choice unless that second car was used only for delivering groceries to business establishments and/or the commune. Just as a motorist who needs to purchase a practical vehicle for commuting and daily chores can buy a sensibly sized and priced small passenger vehicle rather than an Escalade or 4 wheel drive Dualie "utility" vehicle. And if someday they might have to tow a trailer or move a piano or a pallet of bricks they can rent a suitable vehicle and save tons of money and headaches.

Note: Top of the line Dutch City utility bike = € 1299/$1759.50 at today's rate. And that would be the Rolls Royce of practical utility bikes. Add a $200-300 trailer and you will be stylin' with the best of the hip "UTILITY" cyclists in Portland. For $3000, fly to Amsterdam, have a good time and bring the Real Deal back with you.
https://www.gazelle.nl/nl/collectie/2...95b1b554c8e67e

For more prices and choices, including a baksfiet at levels below the top see:
https://www.gazelle.nl/nl/collectie/2...e8fc32cf892218

Site for brochures in English:
https://www.gazelle.nl/uk2.html

badmother

And this is still a IGH tread????

I-Like-To-Bike

Yeah, let's get back to discussing NuVinci, Shulmpf, Alfine, Hammerschmidt, Karlheinz Nicolai, Bilenky or Rolhoff utility products and the gizmos (special bottom brackets, chain tensioners, ISCG mount, etc.) necessary to Rube Goldberg 'em on to our "utility" bikes like bakfiets.

It is a change from constant fan boy discussion of "builds" of Big Dummy and Xtracycles as the pinnacle of utility bikes.

D0ugB

In attempt to change this thread to a positive note. What are appropriate topics for the Utility Cycling forum, ILTB?

spambait11

Oh the irony...

Who are you calling "fan boy" ya Dutch Bike b!tch? Yeah, I'm sure most people are willing to pay $1760 for a bike, let alone fly to Amsterdam just to pick one up.

You seem to have a viable solution for everything. It's amazing you're not running for president.

I-Like-To-Bike

You be right, Clyde.

Makes a ton more sense buying a top of the line bike (or a bottom of the line bike for that matter) than spending $3000+ for a sorta bike like object with such limited utility that 99.9% of cyclists would have a hard time finding a practical advantage or use for it instead of standard biking equipment systems with far more utility.

I-Like-To-Bike

There is nothing inappropriate about discussing "builds" using esoteric gee whiz gizmos to make a customized showpiece of questionable utility for day-to-day use. It is just that with few exceptions, that has been the sole subject of "utility" threads.

If the mods would move the "Bring Back the English 3-Speed" thread back to the commuting list where it was, they could rename this list "Pimp your Customized 2 wheel Freight Hauler/Riding Wheelbarrow" and I'd be satisfied and would never set my eyes on it again.

vik 

I totally agree!....

I'm so sick of reading about these Xtracycles and Big Dummies - not to mention the Kona Utes and other similar bikes. I mean if you could:

- commute with them
- collect your groceries
- give a friend a lift
- take your kids to school
- carry a bike to the LBS
- haul your recycling
- carry 200lbs of cargo
- bike tour
- take your significant other on a date
- pleasure ride

...then I could see how discussing them would be appropriate in the Utility Cycling Forum and I might be able to accept they make very practical day to day bikes...

badmother

I-Like-To Bike, i think you need to change your attitude and stop poluting this thread. You sound like a grumpy old man, jelous of thouse who can buy one or two things instead of dumpster diving like me. At least they are not buying SUV`s!

Show us what you are good at instead of attacking others. I am sure that is not the only thing you are good at??

"If you can`t join them beat them" is not a way to get respect for yourself or your ideas. If you do not like the attitude of the peopel who hang out here maybe you find better peopel in the "roadie" or the "tour the france" forums?

Anything to make you happy my dear, the way it is now even my dog is uncomfortable. Kisses for you and smile

I-Like-To-Bike

All of which I saw done by loads of people riding standard non custom bikes, with standard rear racks and baskets everyday while living in Europe for 10 years. Except perhaps for the 200 pounds of cargo. And I agree, there may be the rare cyclist, who actually has enough of a need for hauling 200 pounds cargo or hauling bulky objects exclusively by bicycle on a regular basis, and can rationalize/justify the hassle of riding, storing and carrying a bulky, oversized, specialty bike the rest of the time and calling it "utility" .

It apparently is heresy on this list to suggest that using a bicycle to accomplish daily chores/utility does not require "builds" with esoteric components and/or pricey specialty bicycles from custom builders.

vik 

You're funny... Nobody criticizes people for using "standard non-custom bikes" for utility missions. Secondly the bikes that get talked about that you seem to have such a hate-on for [Xtracycle, Big Dummy, Kona Ute, etc...] are not custom bikes from a custom builder. They are production items available from the biggest parts supplier in North America [QBP] or from production bike companies like Kona. The complete bikes sold use standard parts you can find on typical bikes roaming the streets of any major city.

I don't have a "standard" bike that can do the majority of the tasks I listed above. Just to pick up a week's worth of groceries I'd need to buy 2 racks and some panniers or a trailer or some other cargo carrying addition to add to a bike to make that happen. I certainly can't give a friend a lift on any of my "standard" bikes. So to be a really useful utility bicycle you will end up adding at least one specialized part if not more.

Your point that people don't need to carry heavy loads or over sized objects by bicycle is completely off the mark. People certainly do need to carry many things that are too heavy or awkward to carry on a normal bike. Since they don't have one of these cargo bikes or are unaware of them they use a car/truck when they face moving such a load. Those people that have cargo bikes or know someone who does don't need to resort to a car or truck they can pedal the load where it needs to go. The fact people, for the most part, don't use bicycles this way isn't because they aren't a good solution - it's simply because the type of bike that is versatile enough to do this is not available to most people....happily that is changing slowly.

The beauty of these bikes is that they are practical choices to do the less demanding rides you need to take care of: run to the market for some food, take a spin around town with a friend, etc..., but when you need to do something more demanding they can take care of that as well without a big hassle.

What I really don't understand from your many negative posts about these bikes here and other bikes in the other forums I've seen you post in - is why do you care that people are using, enjoying and chatting about these types of cargo bikes or bikes you don't care for? Why do you bother complaining about it so much? Why not start a thread about the types of bikes you feel are so excellent for utility missions and make positive contributions to those discussions? You suggest that it is heresy to talk about these other kinds of bikes you feel are so great. I haven't seen anyone slamming them or being super negative about them. People being positive and talking about one option does not mean they feel some other option is bad and certainly doesn't mean they are actively being negative about the other options.

You can't seem to see that your choices are just as esoteric and fan boy-ish as the ones you criticize...

Elkhound

Vik

+10

"I Like to Bike"="I know better than anyone else and if someone elses' choices are different than mine they are morons." At least that is how it seems.

KrisPistofferson

Couldn't a guy like me with a bike that has vertical dropouts simply get an 8-speed hub and use a triple chainring up front since I need a chain tensioner anyway? Can this be done? Seems like I'd have just as large a gear range as Rohloff for far cheaper.

spinninwheels

I don't think you would need a triple - just a double. Plus there may be a lot of slack for the tensioner to pick up. I know of someone that runs a double with his Rohloff. If you're not encountering major hills, or hauling excessive loads, the 8-speed alone may fit your needs.

I-Like-To-Bike

That's how it "seems" when you choose to believe the content of posts of characters who assign irrational/emotional motivations for not being wowed by their arguments "have such a hate on..." for certain types of bikes, or " poluting this thread. You sound like a grumpy old man, jelous of thouse who can buy one or two things instead of dumpster diving like me. At least they are not buying SUV`s!"

It might also "seem" that way if you buy into the extreme definition of "really useful utility bicycle" as determined by Vik as well as his rather unique interpretations of why people use motor vehicles instead of a bicycle to haul cargo or unusually heavy loads:

Believe it or not, many people use their bike for all sorts of daily utility functions, but have no intention of being dogmatic about not using an automobile/truck (their own or borrowed/rented) to make their life easier when appropriate. Using a bike for utility doesn't require a pledge to avoid "resort" to a car or truck.

Adults who use a bicycle to haul their friends about town in the US? Really? How often is that a use, for how many cyclists in the US? If that is what you interpret as a real likely task than a bakfiet makes perfect sense. BTW, I did see lots of adults haul their dates/friends about town on Friday and Saturday nights in The Netherlands; in every case it was on the their standard one/three speeds with the passenger sitting on the rear rack or on the saddle with the cyclist pedaling while standing.

Sturmcrow

According to the aebikes.com website the Paul Melvin chain tensioner can handle 20 teeth. Conceivably you could use a 22-32-42 or 28-38-48 triple crank without problems. It's a bit pricey at $64. From the utility standpoint, you would sacrifice a little reliability, but front derailleurs are fairly bombproof.

Elkhound

Which, in most cities in the us, is ILLEGAL.

I-Like-To-Bike

Your POINT?

Elkhound

It is a citizen's duty to obey the law. Hence, while the practices you mention may be acceptable in the Netherlands, they are not in most parts of the US.

I also find it interesting that you cite Dutch cycling customs to show that specialized machines like the bakfiest are unnecessary, when the bakfiest is a Dutch invention.

There is no way that, using a standard bicycle, I could carry a week's worth of groceries or a couple of cases of wine home, or take the cat to the vet, or haul a bale of peat moss and a couple of bags of fertilizer from the garden store, or similar tasks. With my Xtracycle (now the Big Dummy) I can do all those things. Had I a bak, I'd be able to do even more. (I have decided not to get one as the hills here are just too much; even if I could mash my way uphill with a loaded bak, coming back down would overtax the brakes.) Is there a point at which I would give in and rent a truck or van? Yes, but with the BD that point is a lot farther along the scale than it would be if I just had a regular bicycle.