StephenH

On the Worksman trike that I have, the front axle is a single steel rod that goes through both front wheels. The wheels have two bearings, cone nuts with the two little holes in them, and a lock nut. The axle is maybe 3/4" or so, I haven't measured, but bigger than a normal bicycle axle. I don't think the axle can be removed from the trike.

chucky

That's almost twice the diameter of a standard bike axle. I wonder if it might be possible to drill out the end and screw the axle from a single sided hub right into it.

Alternatively Chris King makes a few different disc hubs with axle diameters in that range:
https://chrisking.com/hubs
I wonder if they could be mounted single sided. Of course then I'd need to bolt or braze on some disc mounts, but that's doable (the question is if it would be worth it).

I'm not willing to compromise on braking because that's half the reason why I don't just use some sort of dolly.

Artkansas 

This carries 300 lbs, and probably gets the job done a little faster than a hand truck. My Bikes At Work 64AW

qmsdc15

Don't know the answers to your questions, all I know is I'm not strong enough to rock a Worksman trike or a pedicab. I'm paid about 10 cents/pound, you're in a different league from me.

I'm a filthy lycra wearing east coast hippie, so you might be right about who trailers are for.

So you want to make only one trip, 500 pounds = $500 dollars in your pocket for a half hour of work. I can't say you're wrong. The figures add up nicely.

chucky

Ok I did some research and here's what I found:
-The worksman mover delta trikes actually have a slightly higher weight limit than the tadpoles/front-loaders (550lbs vs 500lbs).
-The deltas are available stock with front hub brake which can be easily upgraded to the new monster 90mm sturmey drums.
-The deltas are easier to find used.

All else being equal I think the front loaders are definitely preferable for my uses because tadpoles are inherently less tippy, have better braking (if you have front brakes), more easily use a standard rear drivetrain, allow you to watch your load (which is important with valuable items, children, or items which are liable to bounce around), give you easier access to your load (for vending), and finally give your load a better view (for pedicabing).

Unfortunately, despite their high weight "limits" the particular front loaders made by Worksman seem to be primarily designed for vending where the load is relatively light with an afterthought that you could carry really heavy loads in a flat factory setting (and Worksman specifically mentions this in the manual). Consequently, equipping these models with the brakes necessary for hauling at capacity is going to be a time consuming and expensive task and while there are similar trikes from other manufacturers which are better suited (christiania, haley, organic engines, etc) they cost much more than I'm willing to pay (especially since none are locally available). So all else is not equal.

Therefore, since I need a cargo bike soon (don't know how long this part time work is going to continue) and the deltas available to me are really better suited to my immediate needs (hauling dense weight), with the requisite braking power, and with better availability and prices I'm thinking I'll just going to go with a used Worksman Mover for now. In the future maybe I'll get a front loader, but maybe not because despite their advantages for selling ice cream and pedicabbing and keeping an eye on children you certainly can't haul stuff like this with a front loader:

https://cargocycling.org/2009/09/flic...tricycles.html

P.S. Even bikes at work seems to use dedicated work bikes for really heavy loads. Their trailers are only rated to 300 pounds (when evenly loaded) and they seem to recommend real pedicabs for pedicabing.

qmsdc15

Enjoy the ride! Post pics.

Here's one of mine from yesterday. I made about a dollar/pound on this load. Haha

bigshew

It kinda looks like coffins up top. Now that's real dead weight!

As for having the load in front or in back, it's always easier to steer when the weight is over the rear axle. If you have 500 lbs up front it's an effort to change direction, especially on the trikes you've mentioned.

StephenH

By the way, I saw that picture in a gallery of Chinese cargo bikes/trikes, and I noticed they had practically no reversed trikes there.

Lord Chaos

"...geared dolly with wheels big enough for the street..."

That's the benefit of the trailer. You can set your bike up with powerful brakes and low gears. You also end up with a bike that can be used for anything, rather than a dedicated load-carrying trike.

I've used a Bikes At Work trailer for years, to transport roughly 150 pounds of sand sculpture equipment about three miles to the beach. I pull it with a mountain bike, whose strong brakes mean I can stop when little kids run across the bike path. I have gears low enough to get up the hill going home when I'm tired from sculpting all day.

I looked into cargo bikes. They would not handle the kinds of long, bulky items I carry. If your loads are compact then the workbike might just do it.

Trailer control has never been a problem, even when I had a kid repeatedly pass me on a trike and then stop immediately in front of me. The BAW hitch is below the chainstay, near the axle. Towbar is a big 2" aluminum tube. Classic Iowa farm engineering, quite stout. Hitch assembly is a spherical rod-end bearing that takes a big hitchpin.

With a trailer you do need to plan ahead. You need more room to turn, and more distance to stop. On downhills you need to control your speed from the beginning. Width takes some getting used to, so take it slow at first. All of this would be true of a cargo bike, too; you have narrow tires and a big load, so it's not going to stop immediately.

chucky

Yeah, but they look even better than the Worksmans, longer and wider in the rear and with really nicely built flatbeds of various kinds. Bet they're cheap too.

Damn, looking at the gallery I feel like I could carry anything with one of those (and I mean ANYTHING!). Maybe if I got the Worksman Stretch Mover and built a nice wooden flatbed for it it would come close?

chucky

Ok I found a used 3-speed Worksman Mover and an "unused" chinese made flatbed trike like the one in the pictures. Both localish.

The chinese trike is more expensive (almost twice the price), probably singlespeed, and lord only knows what kind of brakes, but it has a really nice flatbed on leafsprings and is probably wider and longer than the worksman.

Which should I get? I'm scheduled to move 1500 pounds on the side next week.

bigshew

Chucky, I think this photo shows the kind of weight you're talking about and why one needs more than a single gear.

qmsdc15

Yep, granny gearing is the only way to make it possible to move more with the pedals than what you can move walking the bike/hand truck. Mechanical advantage, leverage and such.

Get that chinese trike. They have crazy big brake levers. Like two foot long lever mounted on the down tube, standard issue. "Even better than the Worksmans..." duh

I know you're sold on a trike, but for others reading this thread, Lord Chaos' post rings true based on my experiences with the trailer.

qmsdc15

I hate hauling water. I do it, but it's stupid.

chucky

And that's the rub because the Chinese trike is likely single speed with maybe no possibility to upgrade whereas the Worksman is 3-speed and easily upgradeable to more.

In Chinese trikes are apparently called "San Lur" and indeed there is a a long brake lever mounted to the downtube. I guess that's for the rear brake and I see some rods for the front brake, but no levers. Have you used brakes like this before? I'm afraid they won't be adequate. I fear the unknown:
sanlunr_brakes.jpg

But, you gotta admit that this is about 100x more badass than a trailer:
badass.jpg

I really like the flat bed, but the Worksman has a known weight limit and good aftermarket support from the manufacturer (plus it's about half the price of the san lur). What should I do?

qmsdc15

Those aren't brake rods, That's a suspension fork. Does the Worksman have a suspension fork? San Lur FTW.

I can haul more than you ever will with a Worksman trike, but you don't want to hear it, so get the Chinese bike and put a metric ton on there, haul it a mile and a half and put $2204 in your pocket. Easy money.

smorris 

I think the subtlety is completely lost on this one. Doesn't even seem to notice he's disparaging the people who are trying to give him honest answers to his question. His mind was made up before he asked, and isn't getting the confirmation he expected in response...


No. It isn't...

chucky

Now you're just screwing with me. Those are brake rods.

And how you gonna haul more than me when Bikes At Work doesn't even make a trailer that can bear over 300 pounds?

I'm leaning towards the Worksman because I know what capacity I'm getting, I know where to get parts, and I think that san lur is missing levers for the front brake rods.

smorris 

No. They're not...

chucky

I'm getting exactly the response I expected. Complete denial over the facts by some self proclaimed experts with a sprinkling of help and understanding from the others. Typical fare for bikeforums. I've gone through it in almost every subforum and it always turns out the same. You in particular are right on cue with the "why did you bother asking" speech. Next step is for me to select the best option and then reap the benefits for years to come, benefits which stubborn self proclaimed experts will never know.

At least that's the way it usually goes, but there could be a surprise ending this time. Big thanks to StephenH for pointing out the cons of a Worksman front loader.

smorris 

smorris 

Good luck with that.

StephenH

I can't tell that there's a springer fork on that Chinese trike. But if you'll look at those Chinese trikes on the website, most of them have truss-rod type forks. The extra rods are rigid, just for reinforcing the fork (and likely, for cosmetics as the customers expect them, too.)

qmsdc15

I have put 400 on there, I have 24 gears, I would drop you like you are tied to a post. Worksman trikes are made of pig iron. Look at the cargo space on a Worksman trike. Unless you are carrying gold or lead, you will reach the dimensional capacity way before you reach the weight capacity. Get the Chinese bike, that will carry the big pay load you are talking about.

qmsdc15

Truss rods, that's what I meant. Does Worksman have truss rods? San Lur FTW.