Trek's 2011 Utility Bike
#26
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But until the bike is released.... it's nothing but talk.
#27
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Case in point: My 2006 Trek Portland. Wonderful bike, except for the routing of the rear brake cable.
Those infallible factory engineers of yours forgot the first rule of cables: Thou shalt not have S-bends in the housing. The S-bend in the rear brake cable made actuation spongy and impossible to lock, then releasing the cable often didn't release the brake. It was genius: A brake that doesn't stop, and drags all the time.
I've run it correctly myself, (although it required ugly zip ties) and they finally noticed and fixed it two years later with the 2008 model.
So no, I don't think they considered the impact of the load racks and the battery pack aft of the rear axle, and putting the battery pack up nice and high waving like a flag either.
Oh, BTW, you have heard of the steerer breaking off on the 2010 Madone's carbon fork, haven't you?
Last edited by tsl; 06-23-10 at 05:20 PM.
#29
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You realize, of course, that your defence of Trek's design is also just talk.... and so far, without indication of any analysis behind the opinion.
Sadly, I think you believe this is all just Trek-hating, but it's not. I happen to have a Trek (a Fisher actually) and it's a great mtb bike. My own Trek experiences aside, if this was just an issue of style or some minor engineering gaffe, I'd probably not care. But when I see something on a bike that could be a problem, I'm going to point it out, especially on a safety issue, like handling. If a Trek designer sees this thread and they make changes before product release, that's would be the best outcome.
Credentials aside, proof is pudding. Get your cargo bike and hang 40 pounds on the tail end of the rack. If the front wheel even stays on the ground, try riding it and let us know what you think.
:)ensen.
Sadly, I think you believe this is all just Trek-hating, but it's not. I happen to have a Trek (a Fisher actually) and it's a great mtb bike. My own Trek experiences aside, if this was just an issue of style or some minor engineering gaffe, I'd probably not care. But when I see something on a bike that could be a problem, I'm going to point it out, especially on a safety issue, like handling. If a Trek designer sees this thread and they make changes before product release, that's would be the best outcome.
Credentials aside, proof is pudding. Get your cargo bike and hang 40 pounds on the tail end of the rack. If the front wheel even stays on the ground, try riding it and let us know what you think.
:)ensen.
#30
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You realize, of course, that your defence of Trek's design is also just talk.... and so far, without indication of any analysis behind the opinion.
Sadly, I think you believe this is all just Trek-hating, but it's not. I happen to have a Trek (a Fisher actually) and it's a great mtb bike. My own Trek experiences aside, if this was just an issue of style or some minor engineering gaffe, I'd probably not care. But when I see something on a bike that could be a problem, I'm going to point it out, especially on a safety issue, like handling. If a Trek designer sees this thread and they make changes before product release, that's would be the best outcome.
Credentials aside, proof is pudding. Get your cargo bike and hang 40 pounds on the tail end of the rack. If the front wheel even stays on the ground, try riding it and let us know what you think.
ensen.
Sadly, I think you believe this is all just Trek-hating, but it's not. I happen to have a Trek (a Fisher actually) and it's a great mtb bike. My own Trek experiences aside, if this was just an issue of style or some minor engineering gaffe, I'd probably not care. But when I see something on a bike that could be a problem, I'm going to point it out, especially on a safety issue, like handling. If a Trek designer sees this thread and they make changes before product release, that's would be the best outcome.
Credentials aside, proof is pudding. Get your cargo bike and hang 40 pounds on the tail end of the rack. If the front wheel even stays on the ground, try riding it and let us know what you think.
ensen.
I couldn't care less about the Trek brand name and who likes it or who doesn't. I have no idea if the bike will handle well or explode once touched. I'm just simply making the point that you cannot possibly know how a bike handles until you've ridden it. You can make assumptions based on experience, but to say you know how a bike handles just from looking at a 2 inch square picture is absurd.
And even if the design turns out to be completely flawed, I still stand by my original statement: it's great to see a major manufacturer making these kinds of lifestyle bikes.
#31
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-jets, I have to disagree with you. If a major manufacturer comes out with a crappy design, it will probably reduce use of utility bikes. Most people buy a bike and are stuck with it, they don't keep buying bikes until they find one that works. Most people wouldn't know why a bike doesn't work for them, they just don't use it.
As far as not being able to have a rough idea of how a bike will ride by looking at a picture, well, if you have never ridden a loaded touring bike or utility bike, I would agree with you. But if you have ridden a few, certain designs are obvious to those with experience.
As far as not being able to have a rough idea of how a bike will ride by looking at a picture, well, if you have never ridden a loaded touring bike or utility bike, I would agree with you. But if you have ridden a few, certain designs are obvious to those with experience.
#32
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-jets, I have to disagree with you. If a major manufacturer comes out with a crappy design, it will probably reduce use of utility bikes. Most people buy a bike and are stuck with it, they don't keep buying bikes until they find one that works. Most people wouldn't know why a bike doesn't work for them, they just don't use it.
As far as not being able to have a rough idea of how a bike will ride by looking at a picture, well, if you have never ridden a loaded touring bike or utility bike, I would agree with you. But if you have ridden a few, certain designs are obvious to those with experience.
As far as not being able to have a rough idea of how a bike will ride by looking at a picture, well, if you have never ridden a loaded touring bike or utility bike, I would agree with you. But if you have ridden a few, certain designs are obvious to those with experience.
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#34
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The Xtracycle design is an open standard, however, all dimensions and setup are based around using steel is a material source. A lot of bicycle manufacturers are focusing on aluminum, probably because it's easy to market the benefit of lighter weight than steel. This causes steel bikes to be placed at the low-end (cost-centric, low-precision builds) high-end (strength and durability-centric, such as cross bikes, touring bikes, and the niche market of cargo bikes) of bikes without much room for the average rider to buy one. This is why you see a lot of smaller brands like Surly, Masi, Spot, and others focus on steel bikes, though similarly equipped to aluminum counterparts, they tend to be slightly higher prices because of economies of scale.
One can't (or at least shouldn't) use Xtracycle's open-source (no need to license) design when building a bike out of Aluminum.
A second problem is that large brands have a hard time building product that is supported by a smaller brand. For Trek, in order to build bikes to the Xtracycle platform (with steel), they would also need to either reproduce other pieces (such as the H-Racks and freeloader style bags) or order them from Xtracycle and stock their warehouses with Xtracycle product so nationwide retailers have reliable access to add-on components. Perhaps with Xtracycle being relatively small, they couldn't get a large enough supply (at a price acceptable to Trek).
Given that Gary Fisher was given an Xtracycle by the X guys some years back, I'm sure the idea was explored. I had high hopes that Trek would produce an Xtracycle, but I am happy to see that at least they are offering a cargo bike.
One can't (or at least shouldn't) use Xtracycle's open-source (no need to license) design when building a bike out of Aluminum.
A second problem is that large brands have a hard time building product that is supported by a smaller brand. For Trek, in order to build bikes to the Xtracycle platform (with steel), they would also need to either reproduce other pieces (such as the H-Racks and freeloader style bags) or order them from Xtracycle and stock their warehouses with Xtracycle product so nationwide retailers have reliable access to add-on components. Perhaps with Xtracycle being relatively small, they couldn't get a large enough supply (at a price acceptable to Trek).
Given that Gary Fisher was given an Xtracycle by the X guys some years back, I'm sure the idea was explored. I had high hopes that Trek would produce an Xtracycle, but I am happy to see that at least they are offering a cargo bike.
#35
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Nice! Just noticed these on the Trek website and figured I'd find a thread about it here. For those who are critical of the design, I understand the concern but still think it's amazing that Trek has finally come out with a real utility bike that could potentially be featured in hundreds of deaer shops across the country. That's huge! If it sells well, then maybe they'll improve on the design for next year. I have a 2008 Kona Ute and I know the 2009 and 2010 versions introduced big improvements, so give them a year or two to work out the kinks.
On another note, I *really* want a Belleville, but have been unable to see one, much less test-ride it. Latest word (as of Thurs) is that they're unavailable indefinitely. My local dealer said they might get mine (on backorder) in July, or maybe August, but then again they might not get it at all since 2011 models are coming out soon. So sad!
On another note, I *really* want a Belleville, but have been unable to see one, much less test-ride it. Latest word (as of Thurs) is that they're unavailable indefinitely. My local dealer said they might get mine (on backorder) in July, or maybe August, but then again they might not get it at all since 2011 models are coming out soon. So sad!
#36
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Nice! Just noticed these on the Trek website and figured I'd find a thread about it here. For those who are critical of the design, I understand the concern but still think it's amazing that Trek has finally come out with a real utility bike that could potentially be featured in hundreds of deaer shops across the country. That's huge! If it sells well, then maybe they'll improve on the design for next year. I have a 2008 Kona Ute and I know the 2009 and 2010 versions introduced big improvements, so give them a year or two to work out the kinks.
On another note, I *really* want a Belleville, but have been unable to see one, much less test-ride it. Latest word (as of Thurs) is that they're unavailable indefinitely. My local dealer said they might get mine (on backorder) in July, or maybe August, but then again they might not get it at all since 2011 models are coming out soon. So sad!
#37
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I have to agree with purplepeople, it wasn't something I had considered, but looking at the weight distribution on that bike, I strongly suspect it's going to have problems. I would not be surprised to find in the owners manual a comment to the effect that you should load the front rack first. I would also like to know what they rate the racks for loading.
I don't design cargo bikes, but I've ridden many miles on laden motorcycles, and know that it's a good idea to keep weight on a line between the headstock and rear axle. The further away you get from that line, the more...interesting, life becomes.
I've just taken delivery of a BD, and have been struck by how light the steering is, even unladen. The bike is still very stable, but wouldn't want to ride it with a heavy weight hanging off the back. And the center of gravity of that battery pack seems to be inline with the back of the rear tire. We could all be wrong, but the more I look at that layout, the worse it looks. The BD, Yute, Mundo, all have the deck area close to the top of the tire, as close as is practicable with room for a fender, they all have the bags ending at the trailing edge of the rear wheel. I hope we are wrong, it will do no good to have people going round bad mouthing cargo bikes because one manufacturer goofed.
It's good to see more brands getting in on the cargo bike market, but if this bike doesn't have good handling, it could have some negative effects on the whole scene. I think it more likely that they will do more damage to their own reputation though.
Say what you want about Surly, but they did make several iterations of the BD before releasing it to market, mostly publicly. They have good justifications for most of the design details
I don't design cargo bikes, but I've ridden many miles on laden motorcycles, and know that it's a good idea to keep weight on a line between the headstock and rear axle. The further away you get from that line, the more...interesting, life becomes.
I've just taken delivery of a BD, and have been struck by how light the steering is, even unladen. The bike is still very stable, but wouldn't want to ride it with a heavy weight hanging off the back. And the center of gravity of that battery pack seems to be inline with the back of the rear tire. We could all be wrong, but the more I look at that layout, the worse it looks. The BD, Yute, Mundo, all have the deck area close to the top of the tire, as close as is practicable with room for a fender, they all have the bags ending at the trailing edge of the rear wheel. I hope we are wrong, it will do no good to have people going round bad mouthing cargo bikes because one manufacturer goofed.
It's good to see more brands getting in on the cargo bike market, but if this bike doesn't have good handling, it could have some negative effects on the whole scene. I think it more likely that they will do more damage to their own reputation though.
Say what you want about Surly, but they did make several iterations of the BD before releasing it to market, mostly publicly. They have good justifications for most of the design details
#38
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I won't be selling my Big Dummy to buy one of these....hopefully Trek will stay in the cargo bike game and work on the design over the next few years. Looks to me like someone was ordered to add a cargo bike to their line up so they slapped something together to fill that role.
If you are thinking of buying one do yourself a favour and load it up heavily then go for a 5 mile test ride with hills and some obstacles to get around....then ride at least one proven cargo bike design with a similar load [BD, Xtra, Yuba, etc...]...base your decision on that.
If you are thinking of buying one do yourself a favour and load it up heavily then go for a 5 mile test ride with hills and some obstacles to get around....then ride at least one proven cargo bike design with a similar load [BD, Xtra, Yuba, etc...]...base your decision on that.
Last edited by vik; 07-05-10 at 10:54 AM.
#39
Senior Member
Just rode the Transport+ (electric assist version) at Trek World. No load, but people were carrying other people
around on them. Handling is decent, very bike-like. I don't have any other cargo bike frame of reference, but it sure handles better than riding a tandem with no stoker. Electric assist feels like their other pedelec offerings, seemless, like you have a stoker kicking in real hard, or a real solid tailwind at lower settings.
According to Trek Pavement product manager, racks are rated 20lb up front, 100 on top of the rear rack, 50lbs on the side racks. I specifically asked about the axle placement stability issues and was assured that it wasn't a problem.
I liked it well enough that it will be the bike I EP this year, so once I get one, I'll report back on it.
around on them. Handling is decent, very bike-like. I don't have any other cargo bike frame of reference, but it sure handles better than riding a tandem with no stoker. Electric assist feels like their other pedelec offerings, seemless, like you have a stoker kicking in real hard, or a real solid tailwind at lower settings.
According to Trek Pavement product manager, racks are rated 20lb up front, 100 on top of the rear rack, 50lbs on the side racks. I specifically asked about the axle placement stability issues and was assured that it wasn't a problem.
I liked it well enough that it will be the bike I EP this year, so once I get one, I'll report back on it.
#40
Senior Member
Couple more notes.
Took it down a pretty lengthy gravel road and it handled very well.
Trek went with a 33 cell battery to keep weight off the bike; I think I'd rather they stuck with the 44 cell battery they have on their other electric bikes.
Comes with a big honkin' sidestand, but not sure how stable it will be, with cargo.
Bike is built so you can flip it up on the rear rack/frame and store it vertically.
Took it down a pretty lengthy gravel road and it handled very well.
Trek went with a 33 cell battery to keep weight off the bike; I think I'd rather they stuck with the 44 cell battery they have on their other electric bikes.
Comes with a big honkin' sidestand, but not sure how stable it will be, with cargo.
Bike is built so you can flip it up on the rear rack/frame and store it vertically.
#41
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Mconlonx, what is your guess as far as weight of the bike? I am thinking of this for my EP also, but I want the model without the electric motor.
#42
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judging from the side view photo, the transport looks like it has severe toe overlap. any notice of that mconlonx? i have big boats for feet so i look for these things.
#43
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Must weigh mid- high-40s?
No toe overlap noted, plenty of people doing slow, paking lot maneuvers on them. I got average feet, overlap was not an issue eve with the platform pedals.
Rear dropouts are the new flip-flop design, so you could go IGH if you wanted to.
Comes with one bag but both sides have auxillary bolt on rails of
more typical rear rack diameter. So if you happen to already have a set of panniers, there's room to run two on either side.
No toe overlap noted, plenty of people doing slow, paking lot maneuvers on them. I got average feet, overlap was not an issue eve with the platform pedals.
Rear dropouts are the new flip-flop design, so you could go IGH if you wanted to.
Comes with one bag but both sides have auxillary bolt on rails of
more typical rear rack diameter. So if you happen to already have a set of panniers, there's room to run two on either side.
Last edited by mconlonx; 08-13-10 at 05:28 PM.
#44
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I can't imagine the PM was going to say "ya we totally screwed up the axle placement relative to the load!"...he is trying to sell them after all.
#45
Senior Member
On one hand, you could believe someone whose job it was to be responsible for testing and release of the bike vs. Builder guy's opinion based on photos only, no first hand experience with this particular bike.
On another hand, no escaping physics, and loading the extreme rear of the rack sure looks like a bad idea that would have to affect handling.
Maybe they made a compromise toward more bikelike feel while unloaded or more typical light loads over ultimate stability while heavily loaded.
Who knows. I'll get one because we want the elec assist one, and I can EP it at substantial discount.
Then I'll load it up and get back to you. I'll be sensitive to this specific issue since the subject came up.
We're told some crazy Icelanders managed to fit 6 people on one bike...
#46
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I'll look forward to your reports about your Trek.
#47
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Sorry... What does "EP" mean??? Your going to "EP" one?
Thanks.
Thanks.
#50
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I saw one of these at trek dealer and thought it was nicely designed but didnt get to ride it. At the $1000 sale price it seems hard to beat. Trek being Trek, they can afford to load the bike with value and in this case they did with the exception of just including one bag (seriously, who isn't gonna want two?). I liked the bags better than the bags that came with my big dummy.
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