Trailer brakes
09-09-14, 08:05 PM
#26
Senior Member
Electric Brake lever--wire to junction--pigtail to servo on trailer--servo pulls cables to brakes.
09-10-14, 07:07 AM
#27
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As a Mechanical Design Engineer; I can state that fietsbob and turbo1889 are the only contributors to this thread that have contributed useful and correct technical information to this thread. Both mention surge brakes. Surge brakes are used on all U-haul trailers, including the largest two axle trailers they offer. U-haul's application works much better when the trailer is loaded than when empty. Within the mechanical controller for the surge system, you want a spring preload that must be compressed somewhat before the brakes actuate, and a some damping so that they do not go on-off continuously. Damping can be friction or fluidic.
Here is a useful link: https://appropriatetechnology.wikispaces.com/Bicycle+Trailer+Hitch+Braking+System
Regarding byogman's desire to have the trailer provide a controlled boost based on the amount of tension in the hitch system; should be doable by adding a potentiometer or encoder to measure the tension caused deflection of the hitch, and driving a motor or motors in current mode (DC motor, torque is proportional to current).
In any case, incorporate a lock out pin so that you can disengage the brakes for backing up. Ideally the pin should fall out when you stop backing up, and start pulling forward for safety.
Here is a useful link: https://appropriatetechnology.wikispaces.com/Bicycle+Trailer+Hitch+Braking+System
Regarding byogman's desire to have the trailer provide a controlled boost based on the amount of tension in the hitch system; should be doable by adding a potentiometer or encoder to measure the tension caused deflection of the hitch, and driving a motor or motors in current mode (DC motor, torque is proportional to current).
In any case, incorporate a lock out pin so that you can disengage the brakes for backing up. Ideally the pin should fall out when you stop backing up, and start pulling forward for safety.
Last edited by nfmisso; 09-10-14 at 07:12 AM.
09-10-14, 02:38 PM
#28
Senior Member
nfmisso, assuming a "mortal" rider such as myself 230lbs and my bike trek 8.4 d/s at roughly 35lbs, then the cargo of 400lbs, plus trailer weight,
what are the inherent problems of a hard braking situation of an electric system vs the surge system?
what are the inherent problems of a hard braking situation of an electric system vs the surge system?
09-10-14, 04:34 PM
#29
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https://cycletote.com/shop/automatic-brake-system/
https://cycletote.com/blog/
I have this trailer, but haven't ponied up for the brake, regarding which I've read several very positive reviews. Excellent trailer, BTW)
https://cycletote.com/blog/
I have this trailer, but haven't ponied up for the brake, regarding which I've read several very positive reviews. Excellent trailer, BTW)
If its a trailer made for a bike, yes, custom is about the only way to get trailer brakes, especially good ones. The simplest method I know of is to use "scrub brakes" (rubs against wheel) hooked to a tongue compression activation via a rigid fork shaped assembly so that when the tongue compresses the front of the wheels are pushed into contact with the scrub surface. Makes for extra tire wear and is the least effective but it does work.
As to the need for trailer brakes, try a hard braking maneuver with a loaded trailer like you described only on a downhill curve where the tongue of the trailer isn't pushing straight on into the back of your bike that is doing the braking but rather at an angle. Get a good feel for that sensation as the trailers weight tries to push the rear of your bike out to the outside of the curve and jack-knife you during braking. That's not a good feeling and with a heavy enough trailer at speed it takes only micro-seconds to push the braking bike in front into a full jack-knife and roll the bike under, a good way to trash a good bike and get yourself torn up at least a little in the process (don't ask how I know this). With a heavy enough trailer compare to the bike doing the towing you don't even need any kind of preceptable angle due to taking a curve to get a jack-knife situation started.
As to the need for trailer brakes, try a hard braking maneuver with a loaded trailer like you described only on a downhill curve where the tongue of the trailer isn't pushing straight on into the back of your bike that is doing the braking but rather at an angle. Get a good feel for that sensation as the trailers weight tries to push the rear of your bike out to the outside of the curve and jack-knife you during braking. That's not a good feeling and with a heavy enough trailer at speed it takes only micro-seconds to push the braking bike in front into a full jack-knife and roll the bike under, a good way to trash a good bike and get yourself torn up at least a little in the process (don't ask how I know this). With a heavy enough trailer compare to the bike doing the towing you don't even need any kind of preceptable angle due to taking a curve to get a jack-knife situation started.
Last edited by NordicNorm; 09-10-14 at 04:39 PM. Reason: add'l detail in blog
09-11-14, 03:59 PM
#30
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This will sound like a joke but how about "Drogue Chute". In the tandem world they have an expensive gadget called a "drag brake". I don't live in steep country but I have thought about having my wife/stoker deploy one of those runner's drag chute's off her waist while tightly holding the bars to scrub speed during a steep descent. They are cheaper and don't heat up.
It seems like you could deploy one off a trailer to hold down speed gain on a planned descent. For emergency use you would have to do some serious rigging and perhaps need a propellant to quickly deploy it.
It seems like you could deploy one off a trailer to hold down speed gain on a planned descent. For emergency use you would have to do some serious rigging and perhaps need a propellant to quickly deploy it.
09-15-14, 09:15 AM
#31
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Assuming they can be actuated reliably (cable length / stretch etc), is using an alternate lever for trailer brakes, and considering this the sole "rear brake" while towing mechanically unsound? I guess on a turn it would actually be fighting to keep you straight.
@noglider - not to highjack, but what I keep thinking about for my trailer is not brakes, but a dynohub to run lots of "be seen" lighting. And perhaps a reading light for the cargo!
@noglider - not to highjack, but what I keep thinking about for my trailer is not brakes, but a dynohub to run lots of "be seen" lighting. And perhaps a reading light for the cargo!
Last edited by Earl Grey; 09-15-14 at 09:21 AM.
09-15-14, 10:59 AM
#32
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I wonder how many hub dynamos we can run before the drag becomes intolerable. Probably three or more. But it might be more efficient to put all that drag in one hub and get more power than three would provide.
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09-17-14, 11:52 AM
#33
Banned
the electronics in the B&M top light line plus brake tec taillights responds to the AC pulses from the hub dynamo reducing in frequency to cue it to brighten.
Electric brakes in cars-light trailers use an electrical connection there is an electromagnet in the trailer brake ,that magnetic force actuates the brakes.
you can hear the clunk of that magnet pulling on the actuator in most travel trailers..
seems that a potential to use that pulse rate doing a rapid drop to make the brakes set on a trailer .. ??
how to have it not brake when you just slow down making the slowing unexpectedly quick, is another story ..
Electric brakes in cars-light trailers use an electrical connection there is an electromagnet in the trailer brake ,that magnetic force actuates the brakes.
you can hear the clunk of that magnet pulling on the actuator in most travel trailers..
seems that a potential to use that pulse rate doing a rapid drop to make the brakes set on a trailer .. ??
how to have it not brake when you just slow down making the slowing unexpectedly quick, is another story ..
Last edited by fietsbob; 09-17-14 at 11:56 AM.
09-17-14, 07:18 PM
#34
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I'd be very interested to know how well the mechanically-actuated system described in the link above would work, especially how well-damped it would be. I could imagine it setting up something analogous to fork judder.
09-18-14, 06:39 AM
#35
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For any sort of electrical system, you need power, some sort of actuator, an additional connection between the bike and the trailer, and some sort of lever or switch on the bike to engage the brakes.
Unless you are an Electrical Engineer; I would suggest the purely mechanical surge brakes.
09-18-14, 07:42 AM
#37
Senior Member
Surge brakes are typically used on a vehicle with a tire each corner. This is a inline two wheel vehicle we're talking about as the towing vehicle. Plenty more chance to be pushed sideways.
Do they use surge brakes on motorcycle trailers?
Do they use surge brakes on motorcycle trailers?
11-15-14, 09:05 PM
#38
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If I ever had to stop a trailer loaded like Turbo's id just flintstone it and throw a giant hook overboard and wait for it to grab.
11-20-14, 01:28 PM
#39
Banned
1st explorers on the Columbia River by Sea, did the reverse , row the anchor out in a small boat , then pull the big one against the flow with the Anchor Winch.
12-13-14, 01:18 PM
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On my recent trailer build, I ended up using wheels with coaster-brakes. I had originally planned to add mechanical surge brakes like are used on boat trailers (except mechanical).
I ended up needing to press the trailer into service before the hitch part of the brake system got fully implemented. Now I'm not sure. I've had around 200 lbs on the trailer a couple of times, and about 500 lbs once.
The heavier the trailer is, the slower I go. I have two hills between town and my house, but never need to do an emergency stop on the downhills.
I did regrease the hubs as part of the build, but now I'm thinking of high quality hubs and no brakes, or perhaps quality hubs and disc brakes (mechanical or hydraulic) and the same idea.
Trucks run their brakes backwards.... Air pressure opens the brakes, and a lack of air pressure closes them. So, a break-away would naturally lock the brakes. Anyway, I was also considering whether an emergency brake system would be a good idea.
I ended up needing to press the trailer into service before the hitch part of the brake system got fully implemented. Now I'm not sure. I've had around 200 lbs on the trailer a couple of times, and about 500 lbs once.
The heavier the trailer is, the slower I go. I have two hills between town and my house, but never need to do an emergency stop on the downhills.
I did regrease the hubs as part of the build, but now I'm thinking of high quality hubs and no brakes, or perhaps quality hubs and disc brakes (mechanical or hydraulic) and the same idea.
Trucks run their brakes backwards.... Air pressure opens the brakes, and a lack of air pressure closes them. So, a break-away would naturally lock the brakes. Anyway, I was also considering whether an emergency brake system would be a good idea.
04-16-15, 12:23 PM
#41
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What I do for my bicycle trailer is pretty simple:
I made a rider-controlled trailer brake lever as part of the trailer unit. This makes connecting and disconnecting the trailer from the bicycle easy, since the brake cable(s) do not have to be detached and re-attached.The bicyclist can activate the brake by pushing the paddle backwards with his buttocks.
An additional advantage of this system is that both the rider's hands are free to use the caliper brakes on the handlebars of the bicycle for additional stopping power, and the cyclist can control the relative degree of braking between the front bicycle wheel, rear bicycle wheel and trailer for the safest possible operation.
Furthermore, this design protocol is economical and easy to repair as needed. (I never needed to repair my system ever since I built it almost two years ago.)
I posted a YouTube video showing how effective my paddle brake lever, which is completely independent of the bicycle set up, works.I may be using a road bicycle in the video, but the problem is applicable to any bicycle type.The point is that using a brake on the trailer does help us ride our bicycles without worrying about the heavy trailer affecting any kind of slowing and stopping distance.The link is below:
I made a rider-controlled trailer brake lever as part of the trailer unit. This makes connecting and disconnecting the trailer from the bicycle easy, since the brake cable(s) do not have to be detached and re-attached.The bicyclist can activate the brake by pushing the paddle backwards with his buttocks.
An additional advantage of this system is that both the rider's hands are free to use the caliper brakes on the handlebars of the bicycle for additional stopping power, and the cyclist can control the relative degree of braking between the front bicycle wheel, rear bicycle wheel and trailer for the safest possible operation.
Furthermore, this design protocol is economical and easy to repair as needed. (I never needed to repair my system ever since I built it almost two years ago.)
I posted a YouTube video showing how effective my paddle brake lever, which is completely independent of the bicycle set up, works.I may be using a road bicycle in the video, but the problem is applicable to any bicycle type.The point is that using a brake on the trailer does help us ride our bicycles without worrying about the heavy trailer affecting any kind of slowing and stopping distance.The link is below:
Last edited by MavIrwin; 07-25-16 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Update the link
04-16-15, 12:54 PM
#42
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@MavIrwin, that is so brilliant! I turned my sound off since I have an officemate, and I was glad the video is deaf-friendly.
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
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04-17-15, 01:57 PM
#43
Banned
As long as you use a seat post trailer hitch , OK .. The push your butt back off the saddle when needing to stop fast should already be reflexive, in Practice.
07-24-16, 01:09 PM
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I'm trying to add brakes to my cargo trailer, made by Aosom. I won't be hauling any more than a couple hundred pounds of gear, but I'm also going over the Rockies. Can anyone think of a way of not only attaching brakes, but using the magneto of the 80cc engine i will be using to add brake lights? Open to ideas, but prefer to have some kind of visualization. The hitch for the trailer is on the left of the rear axle of the bike.
07-25-16, 02:13 PM
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MarcusM, by the word "bike" and 80cc engine, are you riding a motorcycle or bicycle? I think we can use some clarification. I initially thought that if you going to be bicycle-slow, the flashing "slow vehicle" lights would be all you ever need. After all, the older cars couldn't do the flashing lights and braking lights at the same time anyway.
BTW, I updated my video link (a few posts above). The butt brake works for the hitch to seat post, but my patent did mention how the economic trailer braking system can work at the rear axle with our foot as well. I just like the butt method better.
Just for the heck of it, here's the link again for those who don't want to scoop up to my original post.
BTW, I updated my video link (a few posts above). The butt brake works for the hitch to seat post, but my patent did mention how the economic trailer braking system can work at the rear axle with our foot as well. I just like the butt method better.
Just for the heck of it, here's the link again for those who don't want to scoop up to my original post.
11-05-16, 06:05 AM
#46
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well damm, y'all have taken the wind right outta my sails 
I've been planning to put brakes on a small trailer behind my tricycle using tandem cables, cantilever yokes, the problem solvers dual pull levers, etc... thinking I was ever so clever BUT i never gave a moment's thought to cable stretch
I've been planning to put brakes on a small trailer behind my tricycle using tandem cables, cantilever yokes, the problem solvers dual pull levers, etc... thinking I was ever so clever BUT i never gave a moment's thought to cable stretch
11-05-16, 08:06 AM
#47
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Many years ago Sachs (before SRAM buy out) had mentioned a Hydraulic Cable, which now, seems , in principal, pretty simple ..
pull one end can pull a piston against the closed end of a cylinder.
and the hydraulic fluid pushes the other piston on the end and that force pushes into another cylinder
that piston, pulling from the opposite end..
the end cylinders have a U turn of the flow of the fluid in end chambers reversing the direction of the force ..
'/,
pull one end can pull a piston against the closed end of a cylinder.
and the hydraulic fluid pushes the other piston on the end and that force pushes into another cylinder
that piston, pulling from the opposite end..
the end cylinders have a U turn of the flow of the fluid in end chambers reversing the direction of the force ..
'/,
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