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  1. #201
    Senior Member
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    Note also that alcohol tends to reduce one's peripheral vision (the same vision required to be able to see at all a cyclist off to the side as they are being passed).

  2. #202
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Nobody disagrees that alcohol is a problem.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  3. #203
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    Nobody disagrees that alcohol is a problem.
    That's true Diane.

    But at least one person here has disagreed with the contention that alcohol exacerbates the problem that DLLP diminishes: motorists not noticing cyclists who are riding outside of the space where most drivers pay most of their attention most of the time, and crashing into them.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    That's true Diane.

    But at least one person here has disagreed with the contention that alcohol exacerbates the problem that DLLP diminishes: motorists not noticing cyclists who are riding outside of the space where most drivers pay most of their attention most of the time, and crashing into them.
    Which person would that be?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    Why do cars always drift right; actually, they don't.
    Actually, I meant why do they drift directly into (right into) a cyclist, rather than directionally into (right, into) a cyclist.

  6. #206
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
    Why do cars always drift right; actually, they don't.
    Actually they can drift any where depending on the condition of the suspension and tires.

    However the reason a car may have a tendency to drift right is due to the crowning of the road... anything off of center, is downhill to the outside.

  7. #207
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    But at least one person here has disagreed with the contention that alcohol exacerbates the problem that DLLP diminishes: motorists not noticing cyclists who are riding outside of the space where most drivers pay most of their attention most of the time, and crashing into them.
    Which person would that be?
    That person would be Mr. Singing "the drunk driver is just as prone to 'inattentional blindness' (which, by the way, isn't a real term) as the sober driver" Sabre.

  8. #208
    Mad scientist w/a wrench
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    I don't have a bike-lane death to report, rather I've got a bike-lane deathtrap to report...

    Lexington Kentucky, the intersection of Leestown road (a lesser known artery heading northeast out of town) and New Circle Road (KY 4, a Freeway that runs around the city)

    A bikelane has been recently painted here as part of a repaving of the road. Prior to the bikelane's designation, the shoulder of the outbound lane was more or less used as and considered an extension to the offramp for cars getting off New Circle Road, including a large number of UPS trucks who use the shoulder extensively to travel between the off-ramp and the UPS facility at the next light.

    the bikelane was painted into the shoulder. quite literally, we have solid white lines on the left side of the bike lane, designating the line between the road lane and the bike lane, and dotted stripes on the right side, designating that the UPS trucks apparently have the freedom to cross into this bike lane at their discression.

    Now these aren't just the little Brown Box-trucks you see around every day...no most of the travel in this lane is the GIANT 2-trailer interstate truck used to take packages between distribution centers.

    This is death waiting to happen. I refuse to bike in this lane and would rather share the actual roadway with its 45mph speed limit.
    Proudly wearing kit that doesn't match my frame color (or itself) since 2006.

  9. #209
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazygluon
    I don't have a bike-lane death to report, rather I've got a bike-lane deathtrap to report...
    If you have the patience, remove this report from this thread and put it in this thread instead:
    Bike lane follies

    Al

  10. #210
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    So Serge thinks that DLLP will somehow negate part of the negative effects of drunk driving. Wow. There must be a diagnosis in the DSMIV for that.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  11. #211
    -=Barry=- The Human Car's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    The point is, a drunk driver is particularly likely to overlook a cyclist up ahead who is off to the side out of his path, and more likely to overlook such a cyclist than to overlook a cyclist up ahead in his intended path.
    ...
    It's about likelihoods and improving odds, not absolutes.
    My problem with this is I have seen drunks hit trees dead on with reflectors all over the place, miss tunnel openings, hit the car ahead of them that was stopped for a light and just plain unable to keep their vehicle between the lines. Add to that we have other substance abuses that affect people in a lot of different ways just makes this class of driver impossible to predict IMHO.

    I have also witnessed what I interpret as drivers who appeared hindered in someway drive straight for a cyclist as if they were just looking at the cyclists totally unaware that where they were looking was also where they were driving.

    I mention this because I see lots of possibilities; one is that an impaired person is likely to over look a cyclists off to the side or an impaired person is likely to overlook (or misjudge distance or whatever) of a cyclists right in front of them or an impaired person my be distracted by the cyclist and just head straight for them or their driving is so erratic that they’ll get the cyclists no matter where the cyclists is riding. I’m really not sure we can play odds here on which is more likely to happen.

    Maybe DLLP might help in this situation in the same way that jumping up at the last minute if you are in a falling elevator might help as well.
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  12. #212
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    I predict that a mix of drunks and PEEK-A-BOO riders will result in the timely demise of PEEK-A-BOO, as its proponents' numbers are thinned...

  13. #213
    Perma-Clyde (51)'s Avatar
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    I got hit in the bike lane yesterday. My post is in the Clyde forum.

  14. #214
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (51)
    I got hit in the bike lane yesterday. My post is in the Clyde forum.
    Are you dead? I think there's a survey somewhere in this forum. They're particularly interested in reports from those who have died.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  15. #215
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Human Car
    My problem with this is I have seen drunks hit trees dead on with reflectors all over the place, miss tunnel openings, hit the car ahead of them that was stopped for a light and just plain unable to keep their vehicle between the lines.
    Just curious, what do you do so you witness all these events and get involved in the followup analysis?
    Al

  16. #216
    Senior Member CTAC's Avatar
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    The OP speculates on a tragedy in the Woodside. Every death is a heartbreak, but it does not yet mean that everyone is going to die the same way.

    Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition collects reports and statistic in the area. It has a 'hazardous routes' page on their website. Most of these are freeway overpasses looking exacly as a favorite HH road - no BL, bicyclist has to ride with the traffic:
    http://www.svbcbikes.org/hazardous_routes.php
    I have two overpasses in my area with BLs on them, but they are not listed as hazards. Maybe because BLs do a good job separating the traffic (it's a college area with lots of bikes), or they did not list these so HH can continue speculating that BLs are bad.

  17. #217
    Senior Member CTAC's Avatar
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    An illustration to the previous post showing the difference between a hazardous freeway overpass and a safe one.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #218
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTAC
    An illustration to the previous post showing the difference between a hazardous freeway overpass and a safe one.
    I assume in the safe version the BL has an overpass over the exit? Is that what you mean by 'freeway over pass' ?
    Al

  19. #219
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTAC
    Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition collects reports and statistic in the area. It has a 'hazardous routes' page on their website. Most of these are freeway overpasses looking exacly as a favorite HH road - no BL, bicyclist has to ride with the traffic:
    http://www.svbcbikes.org/hazardous_routes.php
    This is misleading. It implies that the reports and statistics collected by the SVBC determine which routes are hazardous. That is not the case. What is "hazardous" according to the SVBC is determined by subjective opinion based on ridiculous claims such as, "Hazard : Bicyclists must weave with high speed traffic."

    In my opinion, anyone who characterizes a traffic situation where bicyclists simply share the road with motor vehicle drivers as "bicyclists must weave with high speed traffic" has no business making such assessments.

    Note that there is no correlation between how "hazardous" these routes are judged to be and how many car-bike collisions actually occur on them compared to the alternative routes.

    By the way, bike lanes have nothing to do with this. If the path followed by cyclists must be crossed by motor traffic, bike lanes can't help, unless there is a separate overpass for them.

  20. #220
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTAC
    An illustration to the previous post showing the difference between a hazardous freeway overpass and a safe one.
    so which one is supposed to be safer????

    Having a bike lane cut across an off-ramp at an angle is anything but safe. It's asking to get right-hooked.

  21. #221
    Senior Member CTAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    I assume in the safe version the BL has an overpass over the exit? Is that what you mean by 'freeway over pass' ?
    Al
    Overpass mean a bridge over a freeway. Normally there is the right lane exits to merge with the freeway and bicyclist has to merge into the lane going straight.

    Hazardous routes listed on the SV Bikes Coalition website are mostly places where road crosses freeway with no BL markings. Same road configurations with BLs are missing there. I'd speculate that signage makes such routes safer.

  22. #222
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galen_52657
    so which one is supposed to be safer????

    Having a bike lane cut across an off-ramp at an angle is anything but safe. It's asking to get right-hooked.
    I think that the overpass is a BL over the off ramp. Otherwise it it a very dangerous design as you point out. Only a cyclist wishing to get hit would make a last minute merge across an exit into the thru lane. This is why modern BL designs (still inadeqately) put the BL to the left of right exits.
    Al

  23. #223
    Senior Member CTAC's Avatar
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    To clarify how it is done: Bicycle lane crosses right traffic lane about 200 yards before the latter turns right. After that BL continues between traffic lanes.

  24. #224
    Banned. galen_52657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTAC
    To clarify how it is done: Bicycle lane crosses right traffic lane about 200 yards before the latter turns right. After that BL continues between traffic lanes.
    But that's not what the little picture shows....

  25. #225
    Senior Member CTAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galen_52657
    But that's not what the little picture shows....
    You are right, the picture is only one inch size.

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