View Poll Results: Has learning/applying VC made cycling in traffic safer for you?
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll
Has learning VC made cycling in traffic safer for you?
03-07-07, 08:46 AM
#26
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,965
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,529 Times
in
1,042 Posts
Originally Posted by LittleBigMan
I thought he was just kidding.
03-07-07, 12:41 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, Maine USA
Posts: 779
Bikes: Trek 850 Antelope
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I've learned that I'm safer in vehicular cycling through the application of common sense, the thousands of miles and many years of bicycling experience.
Last edited by powerhouse; 03-07-07 at 12:47 PM.
03-07-07, 02:03 PM
#28
8speed DinoSORAs
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oxford, UK or Mountain View, Ca
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by powerhouse
I've learned that I'm safer in vehicular cycling through the application of common sense, the thousands of miles and many years of bicycling experience.
As an analogy: Drivers! They need instruction (professional or otherwise) and are required to take a test to show knowledge, application of rules of the road & vehicle control. This does not necessarily make them good or safe drivers (I think this is something we can all agree on
). Common sense and experience are the only things that can form a good driver - and they must be willing to continue their learning.Ed
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
03-07-07, 02:09 PM
#29
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Holland
This is exactly to the point. Teaching materials, or courses, can inform or demonstrate some best practices, but there is no substitute for miles & years ridden.
As an analogy: Drivers! They need instruction (professional or otherwise) and are required to take a test to show knowledge, application of rules of the road & vehicle control. This does not necessarily make them good or safe drivers (I think this is something we can all agree on). Common sense and experience are the only things that can form a good driver - and they must be willing to continue their learning.
Ed
As an analogy: Drivers! They need instruction (professional or otherwise) and are required to take a test to show knowledge, application of rules of the road & vehicle control. This does not necessarily make them good or safe drivers (I think this is something we can all agree on
). Common sense and experience are the only things that can form a good driver - and they must be willing to continue their learning.Ed
(*) Not counting crashes as a kid prior to age 12, nor crashes while mountain biking, nor crashes caused by learning a new pedal/clip system.
03-07-07, 02:34 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 760
Bikes: Road, Mtn, Tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Holland
... courses, can inform or demonstrate some best practices, but there is no substitute for miles & years ridden.
- keep doing
- stop doing
- try doing
03-07-07, 05:11 PM
#31
8speed DinoSORAs
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oxford, UK or Mountain View, Ca
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bruce Rosar
Courses, in addition to informing and demonstrating, can also provide supervised practice with expert feedback to help each student better understand what they should:
- keep doing
- stop doing
- try doing
That is a very good point. Which brings me to an idea:
How about a "Sticky" thread specifically to share info on courses, who runs them, where and when. It would be so much more use than 100,000 VC threads
Ed
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
03-07-07, 06:14 PM
#32
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Almost 40 years of crash-free (*) traffic cycling experience and common sense did not teach me the liberating traffic cycling practices based on the principles of vehicular cycling that I learned within a few shorts weeks of experimenting during and after reading the book.
(*) Not counting crashes as a kid prior to age 12, nor crashes while mountain biking, nor crashes caused by learning a new pedal/clip system.
(*) Not counting crashes as a kid prior to age 12, nor crashes while mountain biking, nor crashes caused by learning a new pedal/clip system.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-07-07, 06:27 PM
#33
Senior Member
Originally Posted by chipcom
Interesting, in another thread you stated that you have a total of a 'solid 10 years experience cycling in traffic', yet now it's 40. If you want to fib, at least be consistent...people do read ya know.
03-07-07, 06:50 PM
#34
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by joejack951
And hopefully those who are reading are trying to understand what the author was trying to say, or asking politely if they don't understand. I read the same quote by HH where he says he's been riding every year for the past 40 years but not necessarily thousands of miles every year. He made an estimate that if he lumped all of his riding together, it would equal 10 solid years of experience.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-07-07, 07:44 PM
#35
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by joejack951
And hopefully those who are reading are trying to understand what the author was trying to say, or asking politely if they don't understand. I read the same quote by HH where he says he's been riding every year for the past 40 years but not necessarily thousands of miles every year. He made an estimate that if he lumped all of his riding together, it would equal 10 solid years of experience.
03-07-07, 07:45 PM
#36
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Holland
That is a very good point. Which brings me to an idea:
How about a "Sticky" thread specifically to share info on courses, who runs them, where and when. It would be so much more use than 100,000 VC threads
Ed
How about a "Sticky" thread specifically to share info on courses, who runs them, where and when. It would be so much more use than 100,000 VC threads
Ed
https://www.bikeleague.org
03-07-07, 07:48 PM
#37
8speed DinoSORAs
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oxford, UK or Mountain View, Ca
Posts: 2,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Ed
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.
03-07-07, 08:31 PM
#38
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Time to thank your first grade teacher, or whoever it was, for a job well done in teaching you how to read, JoeJack.
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
For the record I have almost 40 years of cycling experience, the first 30 years of which are mixed (some years practically no riding, some years thousands of miles, other years a few hundred or low thousands), and the last 6.5 years have been at least 4,000 per year). Cumulatively, I have well over ten solid years of experience in traffic.
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Almost 40 years of crash-free (*) traffic cycling experience and common sense did not teach me the liberating traffic cycling practices based on the principles of vehicular cycling that I learned within a few shorts weeks of experimenting during and after reading the book.
(*) Not counting crashes as a kid prior to age 12, nor crashes while mountain biking, nor crashes caused by learning a new pedal/clip system.
(*) Not counting crashes as a kid prior to age 12, nor crashes while mountain biking, nor crashes caused by learning a new pedal/clip system.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-07-07, 08:40 PM
#39
Senior Member
Originally Posted by chipcom
So tell me how 10 turns into 40 or 40 into 10 - new math?
03-07-07, 08:51 PM
#40
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by joejack951
First define a solid year of traffic cycling. We'll call it 3000 miles. Next, times 3000 miles by 10 years to get the number of miles that would equal 10 solid years of traffic cycling. That's 30,000 miles. Now divide those miles up between 40 years however you see fit staying below a maximum of say 5000 miles per year (to avoid putting all 30,000 miles in one year). That's how 40 turns into 10 and I'm sticking to it
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-07-07, 09:07 PM
#41
Senior Member
Originally Posted by chipcom
JJ, at least you make me laugh.
03-07-07, 11:21 PM
#42
totally louche
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
Concering cycling in traffic:
how much have you ridden in traffic this week, mr head, versus operating your car like a bike?
just curious, I'm at about 135 miles since Sunday. oh, about 15 of that was a path. so, 120 miles. And I haven't driven since January. How about mr. head?
how much have you ridden in traffic this week, mr head, versus operating your car like a bike?
just curious, I'm at about 135 miles since Sunday. oh, about 15 of that was a path. so, 120 miles. And I haven't driven since January. How about mr. head?
Last edited by Bekologist; 03-08-07 at 12:21 AM.
03-07-07, 11:57 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 1,914
Bikes: Rans Stratus, Trek 1420, Rivendell Rambouillet
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
'Just thought I'd say that I decline to vote because there are not enough categories, and those that are there are biased. For instance, there is no category that says "I learned VC techniques, and ended up in the hospital because of it."
John
John
03-08-07, 12:26 AM
#44
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by joejack951
First define a solid year of traffic cycling. We'll call it 3000 miles. Next, times 3000 miles by 10 years to get the number of miles that would equal 10 solid years of traffic cycling. That's 30,000 miles. Now divide those miles up between 40 years however you see fit staying below a maximum of say 5000 miles per year (to avoid putting all 30,000 miles in one year). That's how 40 turns into 10 and I'm sticking to it
Actually, i was thinking a "solid year" was closer to 5,000 miles of cycling. So over 40 years to accumulate 10 "solid years" of experience, you have to average 1,250/year. I know I have averaged well over that, hence my claim that, "cumulatively, I have well over ten solid years of experience in traffic."
You can also thank your 2nd grade teacher for a job well done teaching you math, JJ.
Chipcom, you might want to send out a few letters of complaint...
03-08-07, 12:27 AM
#45
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by John C. Ratliff
'Just thought I'd say that I decline to vote because there are not enough categories, and those that are there are biased. For instance, there is no category that says "I learned VC techniques, and ended up in the hospital because of it."
John
John
03-08-07, 12:37 AM
#46
totally louche
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
how much have you ridden this week, mr head? and be honest, its okay to be honest.
all this bluffing about your 'ten years' or '40 years' is pretty dang misleading.
regardless learning VC, if a spokesperson on riding in traffic using these techniques actually spends more of his road and commuting miles in a car, i personally doubt their "I feel safer riding in traffic" claims.
all this bluffing about your 'ten years' or '40 years' is pretty dang misleading.
regardless learning VC, if a spokesperson on riding in traffic using these techniques actually spends more of his road and commuting miles in a car, i personally doubt their "I feel safer riding in traffic" claims.
Last edited by Bekologist; 03-08-07 at 12:45 AM.
03-08-07, 12:47 AM
#48
totally louche
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
club miles, or solo?
03-08-07, 01:14 AM
#49
Banned.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bekologist
club miles, or solo?
20 w/buddy <- but this was brutal steep up/down
0 solo/commute
Will add at least 12 solo/commute tomorrow though
Last edited by Helmet Head; 03-08-07 at 01:24 AM.
03-08-07, 01:15 AM
#50
totally louche
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
interesting.....